Well, now that the spyshots have leaked...
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From: Okemos, MI
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JakeRobb, you are right that this does not mean anything is 100% confirmed. Things could change between now and then causing the business case to dry up, or something to that effect.
However, the fact that the dash placard specifically identified this as a 2012 Camaro (and it could read Z/28 after that for all we know; the door gets in the way of the right end of the label) indicates to me that this isn't likely a situation like the Caddy Sixteen engine crammed into a Suburban chassis, or even the gen III LS1 running around in a Camaro before it was released in the Vette.
Now it could be that it was identified as a 2012 Camaro simply because, for example, perhaps all 2012 Camaros are getting the front fascia revision we see in these spy shots. We've heard rumors of interior freshening for 2012 though, and it would seem that those are not present here. This is clearly a functional car (powertrain / chassis), not a car built just to showcase cosmetic changes.
So yes, it isn't 100% confirmed, but I see no problem with people getting a little amped up about it, because this is IMO a pretty strong suggestion that a Z/28 is coming.
However, the fact that the dash placard specifically identified this as a 2012 Camaro (and it could read Z/28 after that for all we know; the door gets in the way of the right end of the label) indicates to me that this isn't likely a situation like the Caddy Sixteen engine crammed into a Suburban chassis, or even the gen III LS1 running around in a Camaro before it was released in the Vette.
Now it could be that it was identified as a 2012 Camaro simply because, for example, perhaps all 2012 Camaros are getting the front fascia revision we see in these spy shots. We've heard rumors of interior freshening for 2012 though, and it would seem that those are not present here. This is clearly a functional car (powertrain / chassis), not a car built just to showcase cosmetic changes.
So yes, it isn't 100% confirmed, but I see no problem with people getting a little amped up about it, because this is IMO a pretty strong suggestion that a Z/28 is coming.
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Agree completely -- everyone can get as amped as they feel is appropriate. I just want people to stop tossing the word "confirmed" around, because it isn't.
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GM let this car be seen. This car was put in a place where they know prying eyes would see it. GM has broken many of their own secrecy rules with the 5th Gen Camaro since it was announced in 2006 with Ed Welburn and Bob Lutz basically leaking spy photographs of the car in testing. It's GM's way of keeping the buying publics appetite fed while stirring excitement on this car over the course of the very long development time. It’s even been a long wait for the convert and Z28 to fill out the Camaro’s production line. Make no mistake this test mule was set up to be photographed even down to the infamous sticker on the passenger dash.
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Confirmed usually can best be comfortibly used, when and only if, a written announcement "confirms" it.
YMMV.
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That's the WHOLE POINT.
GM has a storied history of doing positively dumb-assed things for precisely those two reasons.
Trust me...
A group of people at GM acutally got together and convinced themselves that the Aztec was a world-beater in the styling department...
A group of people at GM actually got together and convinced themselves that the F4 10-bolt was "good enough"...
A group of people at GM actually believed themselves when they convinced themselves that CTS-V's would never get drag-raced so wheelhop wasn't an issue...
Unless the screaming and hollering starts now, and SINKS IN, they'll do precisely what I fear they'll do:
Throw a suspect bottom end in a car that in many cases will be modded within hours of delivery by many customers. Then it'll be the 10-bolt all over again, and they'll take an epic beating relative to the Ford in the performance aftermarket, and all that money they THOUGHT they were going to make will evaporate.
Stuff like that never makes it on to a bean-counter spreadsheet, gents. Lutz would know the difference and understand the point, but he's gone...
Hell, they could buy 'em directly from the aftermarket if they had to, make it an option, and jack the price on a 1 for 1 basis. Then, if somebody blows up an LSA with play-doh slugs, all they have to blame is themselves for being a cheapskate AND a moron - at least GM doesn't take the hit.
It has happened over and over and over again with them. God, I hope they've learned this time.
GM has a storied history of doing positively dumb-assed things for precisely those two reasons.
Trust me...
A group of people at GM acutally got together and convinced themselves that the Aztec was a world-beater in the styling department...
A group of people at GM actually got together and convinced themselves that the F4 10-bolt was "good enough"...
A group of people at GM actually believed themselves when they convinced themselves that CTS-V's would never get drag-raced so wheelhop wasn't an issue...
Unless the screaming and hollering starts now, and SINKS IN, they'll do precisely what I fear they'll do:
Throw a suspect bottom end in a car that in many cases will be modded within hours of delivery by many customers. Then it'll be the 10-bolt all over again, and they'll take an epic beating relative to the Ford in the performance aftermarket, and all that money they THOUGHT they were going to make will evaporate.
Stuff like that never makes it on to a bean-counter spreadsheet, gents. Lutz would know the difference and understand the point, but he's gone...
Hell, they could buy 'em directly from the aftermarket if they had to, make it an option, and jack the price on a 1 for 1 basis. Then, if somebody blows up an LSA with play-doh slugs, all they have to blame is themselves for being a cheapskate AND a moron - at least GM doesn't take the hit.
It has happened over and over and over again with them. God, I hope they've learned this time.
Agreed, and I don't think they will ever learn...
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If you're going to do a supercharged motor why wouldn't you do it right? It's a matter of street credibility and reputation. The blown Ford motors are built to withstand copious amounts of horsepower above the factory baseline. It's why they've been so popular in the community since the '03 "Terminator".
Given the choice between a built-to-the-hilt and ready to mod GT500 and a Z28 that already has almost met its boost ceiling as soon as it rolls off the line, which car do you think will have the bigger aftermarket, the bigger following and more respect?
Given the choice between a built-to-the-hilt and ready to mod GT500 and a Z28 that already has almost met its boost ceiling as soon as it rolls off the line, which car do you think will have the bigger aftermarket, the bigger following and more respect?
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All I pray is that GM will put forged slugs in the Z28.
I can half way understand they wanted the hypereutic(sp?) pistons over forged in the Caddy for noise. That excuse doesn't hold up for a Camaro.
If they get in a HP war with Ford and the GT500 it will force them to put the forged slugs in eventually. I just pray they come in from day one.
I can half way understand they wanted the hypereutic(sp?) pistons over forged in the Caddy for noise. That excuse doesn't hold up for a Camaro.
If they get in a HP war with Ford and the GT500 it will force them to put the forged slugs in eventually. I just pray they come in from day one.
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If you are pushing the limits on the hypereutectic pistons even the best tune in the world won't save you from some bad gas. They will explode like the 4th of july.
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I can't really imagine the Z/28 getting anything more the the CTS-V's LSA. Will some people be disappointed by that? Sure. Will 90% of the people who buy them for MSRP plus dealer mark up care? Nope, not one bit. Most of these cars will be garage queens, getting several hundred miles of use per year, with most of that below half throttle.
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To me, this is one of those litmus tests where we get to see what "New" GM does vs. what we know "Old" GM would've done.
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I'm sure this is what GM's beancounter research will tell them, but I really wonder how many GT500s out there are garage queens. Sure, many of them are - but that isn't the point.
To me, this is one of those litmus tests where we get to see what "New" GM does vs. what we know "Old" GM would've done.
To me, this is one of those litmus tests where we get to see what "New" GM does vs. what we know "Old" GM would've done.
