I'd love to see the LSA with forged internals but GM isn't in the business of building bulletproof race engines for street cars. They are in the business of making money on selling street cars. The LSA was designed, engineered and built for the power it produces plus a safety factor. I'm sure cost is an issue but if GM feels that the engine can safely and reliably produce 556+ HP over it's warranty peroid with non forged internals than what is the need?

 

I suppose that depends on your perspective.

The Hennessey V700 package for the LSA in the CTS-V is rated at 707 hp @ 6,300 rpm and 701 lb-ft torque @ 3,400 rpm, 636rwhp and 656lbft at the rear wheels on the dyno when tested by Edmunds. For some reason the max torque on the dyno is not at the same RPM as it is rated (3400 v 4150rpm). I don't know why that is but a drivetrain loss of 71hp isn't completely unbelievable. Anyway, power upgrades include:

• HPE Cold Air Induction System
• Supercharger Pulley & Snout Upgrade
• HPE Engine Management Upgrade
• Long Tube 1 7/8 inch Stainless Steel Headers
• 3 inch Stainless Steel Mid Pipe Exhaust
• High Flow Catalytic Converters
• Intercooler Heat Exchanger System Upgrade
• V700 Camshaft Upgrade
• V700 High Flow Cylinder Heads
• 160 Degree Thermostat

Notice anything? They apparently don't mess with the bottom end. Boost is 13.5psi versus 10psi, although obviously they are flowing a good deal more air with the revised heads and cam. It has a 1 yr 12,000mi warranty as well.

Guess the only point is you can make a lot of power on the stock bottom end. Forged pistons would allow you a little more wiggle room with the tune but if you don't knock or detonate the hypereutectic pistons will hold up to a lot of power. Would forged pistons hold up to more. Yes, I don't know how much that would be though.

 

Simple.

They'll make more money if they don't have to live down a reputation of having a glass-jaw bottom end.

 

I would suggest that the greatest benefit to forged pistons is their ability to handle somewhate more pre-detonation than cast pistons, vice just being able to support more power. Some bad gas, a less-than-ideal tune, beating on the car on a very hot day, or increased boost via a pulley would be some of the situations in which a forged piston might mean the difference between another fun day at the [insert venue here] and a few hours riding shotgun in a tow truck.

 

This is what people don't seem to understand. The argument isn't that the hyper-explode-its can't handle the power, they can't handle the possible detonation that could happen from a whole list of possibilities.

 

As I understand it, hypereutectic pistons will work just fine, even with lots of boost, as long as you tune it well. All forged pistons get you is tolerance to a crappy tune. There is some benefit to the reduced weight, but that's not what everybody is worked up about -- am I right?

While I agree with PacerX in post #9, I stand by my comment in post #2.

There is absolutely no confirmation that the test mule in the pics has the final powertrain configuration for a vehicle that goes on sale no sooner than 11 months from now. Furthermore, that 6.2L supercharged V8 referenced by the piece of paper taped on the dash could be an LS9 (although it's highly unlikely that it would go to production that way -- that doesn't mean they wouldn't test it).

It also doesn't mean that the engine they were testing was for Camaro. In 1996, Corvette engineers tested the LS1 in an LT1 Camaro. In 2003, the Cadillac Sixteen design team tested the 1001hp 16-cylinder engine in a GMT800 Suburban. Things seen at the proving grounds mean nothing, especially this far in advance of public release.

Finally, it doesn't mean that the LSA won't get forged pistons for 2012 across the board, CTS-V too.

So, for now I say: cool it, gentlemen. It's way too early to get worked up about this.

 

I agree with Jake on this one... that Camaro could be anything...I can't recall all the countless times we seen GM test motors on something that will end up on something else. Anything like this is barely them putting together stuff to test something in particular.

Who knows.. maybe it's an engine for a Silverado SS??? At this point anything is possible.

 

That is a fair statement. What I said was really more of a response to Chevycobb's question whether the LSA was at the edge of power potential in stock form. That isn't the case. Forged pistons are probably better for someone who wants to race the car or mod it well beyond initial specs. However, for a purely street driven car that isn't modded, the hypereutectic pistons will give you quieter startup and less oil consumption.

Maybe people should just tune their cars correctly.

The whole debate is nearly pointless anyway. GM is going to put in whatever components they think will hold up through the warranty and maximize profit on the vehicle.

 

Nope.

For 2012, they are in the process of making the decision or have already made it.

 

That's the WHOLE POINT.

GM has a storied history of doing positively dumb-assed things for precisely those two reasons.

Trust me...

A group of people at GM acutally got together and convinced themselves that the Aztec was a world-beater in the styling department...

A group of people at GM actually got together and convinced themselves that the F4 10-bolt was "good enough"...

A group of people at GM actually believed themselves when they convinced themselves that CTS-V's would never get drag-raced so wheelhop wasn't an issue...


Unless the screaming and hollering starts now, and SINKS IN, they'll do precisely what I fear they'll do:

Throw a suspect bottom end in a car that in many cases will be modded within hours of delivery by many customers. Then it'll be the 10-bolt all over again, and they'll take an epic beating relative to the Ford in the performance aftermarket, and all that money they THOUGHT they were going to make will evaporate.

Stuff like that never makes it on to a bean-counter spreadsheet, gents. Lutz would know the difference and understand the point, but he's gone...

Hell, they could buy 'em directly from the aftermarket if they had to, make it an option, and jack the price on a 1 for 1 basis. Then, if somebody blows up an LSA with play-doh slugs, all they have to blame is themselves for being a cheapskate AND a moron - at least GM doesn't take the hit.


It has happened over and over and over again with them. God, I hope they've learned this time.

 

Likely, but public confirmation from GM (which is the only kind of confirmation that counts) of that is still months away.

 

Everyone makes mistakes, not just GM.

A group of people at Ford actually got together and convinced themselves that a 4.6 sohc motor that made considerably less than 300 hp was "good enough"

A group of people at Ford actually got together and convinced themselves that putting in a weak 5 speed manual transmission was the way to go when the rest of the world was using a strong 6speed.

A group of people at Ford actually got together and convinced themselves that using a 10 spline input shaft on a supercharged car was a good idea.

A group of people at Dodge actually got together and convinced themselves
that having only 1 RWD performance car for over a decade if at all was a good idea.

I think when in comes to the performance world. Weve gotten the long end of the stick the majority of the time.

 

These photos are with full GM blessing. They allowed the car up to have its picture taken even down to the info on the passenger dash telling people what this car is. GM wants to keep interest in this car as they have done since the first spy shots of what became the 2010 MY. It's all PR even if they have not announced it yet and likely won't for some time.
Even if you don't buy into the Z28 idea it's still a test car Camaro with an easily visible different front fascia, lowered suspension, different brakes and is listed as a 2012 with a 6.2L SC V8 A6.

 

All of which has nothing to do with anything.

The point is ensuring GM doesn't make another bone-headed move when they don't have to.

 

The biggest difference between a Hennessey 700hp Caddy and a supercharged production Camaro is the liability lies on Hennessey for the.... what? 25 units they sell? Versus a couple thousand each year in the hands of people that will drive the you-know-what out of them with and all at GM reputation expense if something were to happen.

550hp+ on 4.065 bore hypereutectic piston in the hands of some people who will drive it in effective altitude of 500-7,000' from 10* temp to 110* temp and on occasion the wrong grade of fuel octane... Get it?