The Challenger isn't trying to bark up the vette's tree at all, its going for the modern interpetation of the musclecar.

 

I have priced out my ideal Mustang, it was in 05 and it was just under 25k. I also looked at a V6 and it was under 19k. My favorite car I have ever had was a 1981 Mustang LX, it had character, everything worked, including the crank windows, manual door locks and the power steering.

My problem is today they put all this crap as standard, but I am perfectly happy without it. Actually I am more happy without it. But that's just me.

I think there should be a throw back model, instead of putting all this crap as standard equipment just to say it comes with a-z standard, offer a model without all that stuff and offer it at a much lower price. Then, if you want to offer a model with more options, then by all means do so. It will probably sell much better than the stripper. However, what else is out there offered with very little other than a powerful engine and rwd ? That is what made most of the original muscle cars so exciting, a big *** engine in a small car with not much weighing them down. Hell FM was a rare option. Today most Mustang V6's come with the MAch 500 sound system.

My pain threshhold is 25k right now. I know you guys keep saying that there is an annual increase for inflation, etc. But my income is not rising with inflation and my costs are going up. I will have to find another source of employment to even get to that.

But what do I want for that? A torque abundant V8 and a manual trans. Hopefully it will handle well, and then I'd be happy as hell. I'm a driver first and foremost. I want to enjoy driving my car.

Power windows don't do it for me,
Not hearing the road or the engine really don't do it for me,
a booming stereo don't do it for me,
Heavy *** chrome dipped DUBs don't do it for me,
NAVI don't do it for me,
Power locks don't do it for me,
IPOD docks don't do it for me,
heated seats don't do it for me,
You get the picture.

What does it for me is a stiff chassis that does not flex
A rumbling exhaust
my arm hanging out the window
reaching over the console to crank down the passenger window
Brakes that will make my eyeballs hurt when stomped on
Seats that are either havily side bolstered or easily replacable
Back seats where my kids will be safe
300 ft lbs of Torque
a shifter with a mechanical click every time I shift gears
Three pedals

I don't want anything but performance, everything else just makes it harder to reach and harder to enjoy.

 

Well the "just want a V8 sound" people aside, I could make a case for a mid 13 second camaro, just by the number of kids I've seen cruising around in SRT4's, New Edge Machs, ect (worst case I've read about was a kid that got the keys to a GT500, promptly wrecked it and then got another ). Perfect car for Jr with the newly minted DL and "excellent" state administered driver's ed. (especially when they dont want to be seen in some girly V6 Camaro)

 

wow...I couldn't have said it better myself...I agree 100%

 

Not as bad as the kid I went to High school with.

Turned 16, dad hands him the keys to a brand new M3. A week later it's totalled. A few days later dad hands him the keys to a spankin new Viper.

The V8 sound is not even a big deal anymore either. Next time you see a G35, roll down your window as it goes by, it has a very nice sounding exhaust. I don't see why GM can't do the same with the 3.6.

 

Wow .... just .... wow .... I can only guess this was his dad's version of tough love, sorta like when your folks found you messing around with a cigarette and decided that making you smoke the whole pack was the way to teach you a lesson.

 

Your dedication to the "no-frills" concept of American muscle (why some classic cars at Barrett-Jackson auctions get higher bids with the famous "AM radio delete" option) is admirable....... but GM wants to sell Camaros. Not just have them ready to race at a moment's notice.

I know, it's not what purists and enthusiasts want. But in the year 2010, stuff like Bluetooth and CD changer with MP3 player will be just as prerequisite of features to get any car to move off a lot as A/C and cruise control.

I honestly believe that if GM came out with a stripper Camaro - a TRUE stripper (the CAR! the CAR!) - with all creature comforts and sound insulation removed they would sell about 1 of them - to you.

 

Yep
Yep (except the fuel economy part)
Yep. A6 will definitely help these cars. M6 GTO's can get upper 20's hwy today, without AFM (they are rated 17/25 MPG).

 

You are not alone here. This has been brought up before. Scott answered quite nicely. Something along the lines of keeping the cost of the Camaro down, it would actually cost MORE to design the door panals and mechanisms for manual windows and such, Thus negating any savings you would have from deleting those "options".

And here's a thought. I'm not sure, but isn't the Mustang built in Dearborn Michigan? Really, I'm not sure. And since GM is building the Camaro in Canada, the reasons being obvious, cheaper and easier to deal with union, and no or lower corporate taxes. If that is the case, then doesn't the Camaro have a price edge on the Mustang? At least on paper?

 

Building the car in Canada, I think GM is just trying to live up to a previous aggrement they had with Canadian government and union's
(hundreds of milions of dollars in loans, grants and tax concessions to build cars in Quebec) that thay didnt pay back.

As to cheaper in Canada:
dollar at par now 1$us=1$cd
same type of unions
higher corporate tax (almost 30%)
universal health care the employer pays (ohip)

GTO was just a rebadged Australian car (never available in Canada did not meet safety standards) and from what I've read cost a lot more than previous F bodys, I suspect this new car is going to cost GM a little more to get to market than the GTO.

So anyone holding out for a Camaro that is cheaper than previous GTO, I'm not going to hold my breath.

John

 

Well, if the difference was 1k, then yeah, it wouldn't be worth it. However if it means the difference between 18k and 22k for the 6, I'm all for it. I do understand your point and I am not saying it has to be THE base V6 offered at all dealers. You can go to the Chevy dealer and get a full size stripped out work truck for about 12-13k (after rebates) with a V6 and 2WD. Part of my argument has to do with mileage as well. The companies bitch and moan about how much heavier the cars are getting du to added weight from safety equipment, but that 1000 watt stereo is not light, that double layer of sound deadening is not light, the electric motors in the doors are not light, etc. Did you ever have a passenger in your car and floor it and notice a difference?

I'm not saying it will sell WELL, but I could see at least a few thousand examples sold. If they brought the proper type of attention to it. Get it featured in the right magazines and there would be people out there thinking "that's what I want!". It would not have to be sitting on every dealer lot, but if it was known that this option was available, people would buy it. The main reason to NOT do it is that they make more money off loaded up models.

Why do you think those radio delete cars get more money? People pay more for what they want.

Let's look at it this way as well, what about if you walked into a dealership and wanted to order the top of the line V8, from what people around here are talking about, that will be a 45k car or more. Now, what if you can order the stripper V8 for 23k, and custom order it with the top level V8 and suspension for an additional 10k. Ever hear of COPO? Plus if it is 150 pound lighter it will be slightly faster and handle better.

Let's look at what is out there with two doors for 23k.......... Now, if you don't make much money and 23k is pushing what you can afford, what would you buy? Or, if 28k is going to be really hard for you to afford, putting you in financial difficulties, shaving 5k off that loan could mean a big difference to you.

Also, I understand the reasoning behind power windows being standard, but that is due to the design and engineering being based around power windows, not bot. It would be rather simple to design a door that could accomodate both. The problem is the door is designed to have power windows from the get go without crank windows even being considered. There's no place to put the crank on the door panel and probably no mounting holes for the shaft. That's because it was not considered from the word go.

Progress is great and all, but who really NEEDS this stuff? Sure some of you like it and enjoy it, but do you NEED it? For example, my cell phone, I use it often. However when I forget it at home, I don't panic, sometimes I don't even notice until I arrive where I'm going and put my keys in my pocket. People act like they are not going to sell cars unless it has so many features, I say BS, we're getting too pampered and are paying for it. I want a raw in your face V8 and 5 speed manual trans. A MANS car, not this little girly blue teeth and but massaging comb your hair and put on your make up for you while you are driving BS.

If I had 20k cash I'd buy a 1970 Malibu 2 door V8 (even the 307) with low miles, much faster than I'd buy a loaded up V6 Camaro for nearly 30k. Now if Chevy offers a real muscle car for 25k or less, I'd buy it in a heart beat. That does not mean all the camaros have to be strippers and all have to be cheap, but they should offer somethign for the people like myself, I know I am not that unique.

If your right, there's no COPO II. If I'm right there will be.

 

Sounds like you want the "Body in White" version which should be available for racers.

 

pretty much. Lets just hope it is available to the public as well, and for a discounted price, instead of a premium.