Sorry if this is a massive repost of something that's been talked about to death....

I'm really excited about the new Camaro. I love how it looks, I know it'll be a big BIG step up in quality from my old 3rd gen. My only issue with it is weight. I'm really interested in getting one and making it a weekend warrior. I'll be finishing college just about the time that the car comes out, which is perfect cuz it gives me a year to save up and get one of the second or maybe 3rd year ones (I don't want a first year, GM's engineers are as good as any other manufacturer, but first year cars always have kinks).

So, for weight....from what I can tell, it's pretty much expected that the car will be a bit heavier than a Mustang GT. In the neighborhood of 3700 pounds (judging from FbodyFather's hints) I appreciate that it will handle great, with a great chassis, nice fat tires, and great steering (considering what chevy managed with the new '08 corvette and it's massively improved steering feel). But the transient response...the flickability of the car at lower speeds, will still be a bit....muted, with that much weight. I'd love to be able to get a Camaro that was more like the ~3450 pounds of some of the 4th gens, and while I know the new car will be vastly superior in basically every measure...I still want a lighter car.

So I'm wondering....will there be options for somebody like me, an enthusiast first and foremost who wants the car as a second "fun" vehicle and can not afford a 'vette?

Other manufacturers have offered "starting point" platform versions of their vehicles for enthusiasts. The Mitsubishi Evolution RS. The Subaru WRX TR. Things like that....option packages that essentially delete things that auto enthusiasts don't want or need, thereby saving some weight.

I'd love for the camaro to do this as well, and the market right now is at a point where it's not unheard of or strange....there are people out there like me who really want it.

So, The Camaro RS. I'd love to get one. V-8 (~400 horse, doesn't have to be the top one), radio (and speakers) delete, AC delete (with it available as an option), manual trans, sound insulation delete (at least some of it), perhaps even a rear seat delete. Lighter, cloth sport seats (maybe recaro?) 17-18 inch wheels...something not fancy, just lighter. Manual windows/door locks.

I figure the car could shed maybe 100-150 pounds with that stuff gone, and I'd enjoy that kind of vehicle more than an optioned up one. I already have a daily driver. I know there's other people out there like me who'd like to see something like that, and since other manufacturers are doing it, it's not an "out of the blue" thing. It would be less expensive, maybe a couple thousand, than the regular v-8 version, and be more like 3550 pounds.

So, is this something I should quit hoping for? Would you guys like to see something like that offered? FbodyFather, has this been something you guys have talked about/considered? I know the market for it would be small, but with the equipment deleted and no chassis changes, the same line could build it, so I don't really see why it would cost you guys any extra....

 

i'm sorry, but i really don't think they will make an option where you can take out the AC and radio...it just wouldn't make sense...

 

+1 and Scott I thought had said that this would not be worth it.

 

It is well pointed out that while a few enthusiasts cry for a delete car that when one is built many would sit on the dealer lots unsold.

Too few people want a stripped car to make it viable cost wise andf dealers really don't want them.

Besides if you want the stuff out it is not that hard to remove it if you really want to.

I do see GM might offer bodies in White for some racers to build their cars with.

The after maket will also addess the use of Carbon Fiber hoods and deck lids if weight is that much a problem. With Roush being involved I would not be suprised to see them offereing this kind of part.

 

Very true. It's cost prohibitive to do it these days.

Roush isn't involved at this point... but I'm sure they're itchin to jump into the fray... along with Saleen, and any number of other companies.

 

It's not gonna happen.

I'd suggest you find a 4th gen 1LE to build the weekend warrior you're looking for.

 

Nah, even given the weight, I know the 5th gen platform will be superior for handling dynamics. All the signs indicate the chassis is extremely stiff, stable, etc.

I was just hoping for something along the lines of what is being done with the EVO and WRX. An option to order it that way....perhaps with none shipped to dealers like that. Dealerships are already usually quite alright with placing special orders for EXACTLY the car you want, I'd just like the option to delete some of this stuff.

If I can't...that's fine. I can do it on my own. I know how to take AC off, remove speakers, strip an interior, etc. It's pretty easy. I'd just prefer to buy the car with that stuff already gone.

What are the rules for road cars with stripped interiors?

 

Camaro ISN'T an EVO or a WRX. Isn't even in the same class or catagory.

WRX and EVO are performance packages on an existing car, like Z28 or a Cobra. Unlike the Z28 & Cobra, EVO and WRX are based on economical stripper sedans that are marketed to highly sensible and value oriented customers like 1st time buyers, newly graduated but cash strapped young adults (who need a new dependable car), and last but not least, women. As such, since Imprezas and Lancers already sell in large numbers as low optioned cars, it's pretty easy and cost effective for Subaru and Mitsubishi to create stripper versions of a WRX or EVO. The sedans they're based on come in stripper models.

Camaro and Mustang buyers are different beast. Besides being coupes and offereing a sporty image and styling in base models, the buyer of Camaro and Mustang is far away different than Impreza and Lancer sedans. Buyers tend to be men or women who want a sporty car. They tend to be people who have settled into a new position or job, and/or want to express themselves by having a stylish car over an extremely sensible one.

Mustang and Camaro's upper end buyers (Z28, SS, Cobra, etc...) tend to to load their cars up with options. Base model 4th gen Z28s and Mustang GTS collected dust on lots. In 2002, you could actually drive off the lot with a 160mph Camaro Z28 for under $20,000 (listed for about $22,000 and with $2,500 in cash back and incentives). It was the loaded Z28s and SS that sold.

Pontiac Formula Firebirds with 5.7 V8. Sold for about the same $22K as a base Z28 did. In 2001, Pontiac sold just over 1000 of them....the entire year! Ditto 2002. Those same 2 years, Pontiac sold 10,008 and 19,007 mare expensive Trans Ams and WS6s. Every year of the 4th gen, the story is much the same. More expensive, loaded F-bodies soundly trashed the sales of less equpted versions.

Now, to twist the knife a bit farther. Mustangs soundly outsell Mitsubishi Lancers and Subaru Imprezas, and Camaro has as well. Lancers run about 32-36K cars annually. Ditto the Impreza.

Mustang run roughly 150-175,000 annually. Camaros will likely run against 100,000. Even the discontinued 4th gen stuttered along to about 40,000 cars it's final year.

Finally, to pretty much take the last breath of life out of any notion that the WRX or EVO is even on the same playground as Camaro, keep in mind these production numbers also the special performance models. In 2002, there were nearly 25,000 LS1 Camaros and about 24,000 LS1 powered Firebirds... and this was one of their worst years. Yet, there are roughly around 12-15,000 EVOs and WRXs sold annually, depending on the source of the estimate since WRX sales seem to be a state secret with Subaru.


If you are awashed in so much money to despose of that you are dying to morgage the next 5 to 6 years and $500+ monthly of your life on a $25,000+ fully warrantied car, that will have interior quality better than current Japanese models, then start yanking things out of it just to remove only 100 pounds so you can zip around a track no faster than the guy that simply added a few dollars worth of mods, then as long as you leave the air bag intact, have seatbelts, and a fully secured seat, I don't think there's too many laws against owners wasting money and a perfectly good car in this way.

 

Making cars for specific people isn't nearly as cost effective as alienating a few because you have to get B with A & C.

After all, most people are NOT willing to pay MORE for that special order, and i even less are willing to pay more to delete something.

 

Keep in mind Scott pointed out they would look for effective ways to reduce weight with out adding cost anyway they can.

Also he pointed out there will be enough motor to move the car in the ways we expect.

In time Carbon Fiber and othe rlight weight items will get cheaper and we will see improvments.

The plain fact it to make the car lighter now would add so much to the cost no one would pay it. Or I sould say not enough.

You can't always have your cake and eat it too. The Camaro will be fine as the Mustang is not much lighter and the Challanger will be much heavier.

I only worry what the Hyundi RWD will weigh.

 

There are hardcore enthusiasts, there are non-hardcore enthusiasts, and then there are wanna-be's.

That is all.

 

You're way way WAY overthinking what I said. I'm aware they're not in the same "class". Things like a radio, AC, sound deadening delete are easy. Stuff like this used to happen all the time, look at the old Z28: Less options and weight than the SS, and a smaller, lighter engine. However, since you are being kind of condescending, I feel like I need to point out that the new Camaro shares it's platform with several other vehicles, some of which will surely have "lower" option stuff. So, uh, not that situationally dissimilar.

I'm just wondering why it's so difficult to just...not put a couple things on that I don't want, and hoping that there's some way I can easily lose 150 or so pounds without spending a bunch of extra money or voiding the powertrain warranty right away. I'd like to keep the warranty for 3 years and then really start having fun with the car. My current car is paid off and all-wheel drive (I live where it snows a lot), excellent condition, will remain my daily driver when I'm done with college...and I want a toy. Also, I custom ordered my current vehicle and did not pay any more for it than if I'd purchased it off the lot (less than MSRP, in fact)

Check the attitude though dude. I'm not some idiot who doesn't know how the world works. I'm also not some delusional kid who thinks he's gonna be able to afford a bunch of stuff. I've already got my fingers into plenty of things, I bought, upfront, a '95 Cobra when I was 17, and am paying my own way through college. A fool I am not, and I don't particularly appreciate the insinuation. A Camaro is not out of my justifiable price range (plus I think it looks much nicer), while a corvette is. I know how to budget, save, and I know what I consider fun. I'm just asking whether there will be options for those of us who DO want something more hardcore. Many enthusiasts do things like this to their vehicles. I'm planning on track days, and certainly will perform more extensive mods on the car than just getting rid of the rear seats....but I like the idea of a stripper, and I don't think that in an american muscle car, the original "mod" car, putting out a "tuner ready" version the way the japanese did with their two rally vehicles (which are also popular mod cars) is that far fetched.

If Fbody already said there's not a business case for it, that's cool. It's something I can do on my own. It's just easier with some of that stuff already deleted, cuz you don't have holes in the dash/rear/doors where deleted stuff was, and removing the sound insulation on a car is a huge pain in the *** to do on your own.

 

Wow. You're such a winner.

You got a better and more thorough answer than you deserved and now you're salty because he didn't take the time to sugarcoat the fact that your math and reasoning are laughable.

 

boxerperson,

One of the main reasons that Scott has said is that engineering cars with different wiring assemblies, and housings etc isn't cost effective, thus why they don't do it.

 

In the modern era of integration, ECMs, and even fiber optics and multiplex communication, it is cheaper to mass produce cars with all the options than it is to delete options for certain customers.

Back in the old days, you could opt for a "stripper" because things like power windows, A/C, power steering, and even power brakes were each their own sepparate systems, integrated into the car only in theory: a fuse, wires, and maybe a few hoses. Heck, back in the real old days power door locks DID have hoses (vaccum driven).

But today, it's almost getting impossible (on some cars it is) to make them without certain features because the car is engineered from the very beginning with all those features in mind (which 90% of the customer base wants anyway). The ECMs and BCMs are today even more integrated with each other than just 5 years ago, and have software and hardware that communicates everything about the car, and holds the radio station memory, door lock program algorithms (auto lock, unlock, drivers door only, two presses for passenger door, etc), TPS, ESC, ABS, and all the other stuff is probably integrated on the same circuit board that has your climate control settings in memory.

Hence the reason why if you want one option, you have to take two or three others. Integration.

Believe me, this method is what you want when you build a car. It's much easier to have high quality control as well.

Now, if you want to pull out all the insulation from the roof and headliner, inbetween fenders, and in the door jams, be my guest. You just may want to watch out for those curtain airbags and roll over sensors, though.