Sitting beside a $30K G8?

Let's be sensible. All he is saying is that the marketing team is really going to posture the V6 into a car otherwise never before advertised.

 

Eh, I think 6.2L is pretty big.

 

Now don't loose your head yet, son

I know Fbodfather likes to make back door, side step references that we can all make our own conclusions to, but I don't really think we're going to see anything bigger than the LS3 for mainstream Camaros.

Limited edition and top line models, maybe.

I would love to be proven wrong, Scott

 

It is moot because the LS3 already replaced the LS2. Now there is a chance it would get the 6.0L L76 from the G8 I suppose.

 

LS3 is is fine with me!

 

I'm probally one of the harshest critics of the 4th gen Camaro. As a person who has actually owned 2 of them and is on my 3rd, I think I've earned the right to be. To swear the 4th gen was perfect is to invite being struck by lightning. I like the 4th gens versitility, power, and drivetrain. The body structure is built like a tank. The radio and HVAC will pretty much last the life of the car. But everything else has the quality of something that either came from Playskool or the bottom of a Cracker Jack box... like those power window motors.

I don't come by the 2010 Camaro forums much anymore, and haven't for many months. Just reading this entire thread simply reinforces that.

Although this forum isn't as bad as some over at other websites (I simply stopped posting on them altogether), this one drifts in the direction of them with alarming regularity.

Not too long ago, there seemed to be alot of people drifting onto here who makes you really wonder if Darwin had it wrong afterall. People with such jewels as "I'm not going to buy a Camaro unless the script is (such and such) way.". More recently, there was an uproar over the headlights that were obviously not production that even continued after Scott came in and explained them. Others whined about the way the exhaust looked from the rear. Hearing someone complain about the quality of the interior from a picture of what was obviously a cobbled together mule is yet another recent example.

Then someone says something and next thing you know, it's like some kid dragged a stick across a column of ants... pandamonium breaks out. People start hyperventilating. A simple comment morphs into the inevitable "GM can lick my *****" type rant. A simple statement like "a big honking V8" suddenly becomes "GM is going to offer a V8 bigger than we expect".... sure. They're going to put a 7.5 Liter in it.

Even those are nowhere near the outcry that came up over Bob Lutz musing about offering a 4 cylinder engine in the car. That seems to have sprung open the gates of the loony bin, and they all had internet access.

The Camaro MUST appeal to a wide group of people. Even those frequently hit on the head by a 2 by 4 know that. To say the last Camaro had an image proble would be perhaps the understatement of the year. It was viewed as gas hungry, way too big, too poor in quality, a car that simply couldn't keep up with the times. This next Camaro must... and in case you missed that last word... MUST... pull sales from people who are looking at Hondas, Toyotas, & Mitsubishis, more than pulling Mustang sales. Anyone thinking the next Camaro can get by with nothing more than a gazillion horsepower V8 is probally a moron. Or someone eager for the next Camaro to have a short lifespan.

It really doesn't matter if you have faith or not in the next Camaro. People will always have some minor personal item to nitpick. Whether it's weight doesn't meet a magic arbitrary number, or the suspension design is struts, or the interior design isn't their taste, or it has 400 horsepower insted of 410, or a $30K price tag instead of a $26K one, or rims not big enough or tires not wide enough, or the script isn't quite right, or they didn't want a B-pillar, or it wasn't on the streets the day after the concept's paint was dry.

Whether you have faith or not is irrelvent at this point. So is whining about every insignificant thing imaginable. GM is going to simply do the best job with the 5th gen Camaro that they can possibly humanly do within the confines of the budget and resources they have available. Plus, the car is too far along for you to make any real difference anyway.

Camaro is the highest profile all new car GM's had since at least the Solstice, but more realistically the original CTS. It's going to be a game changing car for GM that's going to set the bar for other GM cars to follow (slap yourself if the only thing that came into your mind on that last sentence is performance). Quality, warranty, marketing, sourcing, even methods of engineering and testing are all blazing or will blaze new trails.

In addition to all of the above, the coupe market is about to get ferociously competitive. Dodge will have a full lineup of Challengers before the end of the summer. Ford will have a new redesigned Mustang at the next Detroit NAIAS that will be on sale months later. Hyundai will have a 300 horsepower RWD coupe that's going to undercut the Mustang GT in addition to a turbo 4. BMW just started selling the 1-series (the only reason it's going for 35 large insted of the original sub-30K target is because the US dollar plunged alot since it was started). Toyota and Nissan also have high profile coupes. Camaro is going to have to compete in this market.

High horsepower V8s are going to be afterthoughts for a change. Not that they aren't going to be high performance. It's that if GM doesn't get the rest of the market right, There aren't going to be enough high horsepower V8 buyers willing to pay $5, or even $6 per gallon to give Camaro a lifespan longer than the typical housefly.

GM is more aware of what it's up against than any of us here. The car has been under development for nearly 2 years, and was gestating for about 6-8 years before that. There's no such thing as taking your time and getting everything perfect because there is no such thing as perfect in automobiles.

The new Camaro will be a pretty fantastic car (though some seem confused and treat it like a messaiah returning). Quit acting like a bunch of frightened chickens every time someone says the slightest word regarding the car. It's easy to see why many executives are over cautious about everything they say.

 

that was freakin glorious.... If you live in SoCal I want to be your friend





Cameron

 

guionM =
Well said... except the Camaro is a messaiah returning

 

obviously it hasnt been months since you've last been on the board unless you've been catching up on 3 week old postings.

 

First, guionM, beautifully written. Second, tech is catching up to the muscle/pony car crowd and they don't like it. V6s are edging over 300hp and as such are replacing the low end v8s. v8s will still exist, but they are simply producing rediculous numbers. The problem, IMHO, is that folks want a V8 just to say they have a V8. They'd rather have a v8 producing 310 hp than a v6 producing 310 hp b/c that level of hp will probably be what they will be able to afford. GMs probably letting the cat out of the bag on these lower engines to get the market used to the idea.

Frankly, if you can afford hp in the low 300s and must have a v8, go buy a current gen mustang ... get worse gas mileage ... and be pissed when the v6 camaro is runnin' with you and paying less $/gallon to do it. I know this is an exageration, but it's the general idea.

I will probably be facing this same dilemma when the car comes out. I'm not sure I'll be able to swing a v8, but I'm 100% sure the v8 may be more car than I need (I don't race camaros). I'd be disheartened to buy a v6, but I'm certainly not going to blame GM or buy a lesser car b/c of it.

 

guionM - That was awesome! You're absolutely right across the board, and you're not the only one who's been disappointed in the enthusiast community lately. Fanatics seem to be running rampant and it taints the board for the rest of us.

 

Guy, your common sense always makes me feel a little better... i'm as optimistic as anyone about this car, but a lot of these negetive posts have been starting to get me and get me thinking.. but you have a way with words that makes it hard to argue with, imo.. i hope a lot of people read that post...

 

Great post Guion, except for this part.

A 300 horse Hyundai isn't going to be undercutting the 2010-2011 stang. That car will have a 400+ hp DI 5.0 that gets better mileage than the current 4.6 and it'll priced under $30K.

GM better understand that the overweight overpriced gas hog Challenger isn't the real competition.

 

This is Ford. I just don't see them having a 400+ HP base V8. I guess if they have another performance option, like an EcoBoost turbo 6, it's possible.

But pretty much everything I've read said they were looking at a 320-340 horse 5.0.

I hope I'm wrong, though. If they can pull off a 400 horse SOHC DI 5.0 with better mileage than the current 4.6, more power to 'em!

 

VERY well stated!

I love that you bring up the 1 series. I would also add the G35 coupe (maybe you intended to cover that one through Nissan) to the above list because those are two cars I would also consider if something goes wrong with our Camaro.

Please note, I'm not one of those people who will need to subscribe to the crow-eaters thread. After seeing the great job that was done with the recently released CTS & Malibu, I'm am very excited to see this car hit production and confident that GM will get it right.