NEWS: Mark LaNeve: Camaro won't be positioned as a muscle car
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 118
From reading all the negative posts and jabs on this and other forums I'm starting to feel sorry for the people at GM that thought it would be a good idea to give us up to date information as soon as possible.
Should they have waited like everyone else and told us nothing?
I'm curious if there will ever be this level of public involvement of a new product again. It will be interesting to see when the car is released what GM's thoughts are, was it worth the effort to keep us informed?
Should they have waited like everyone else and told us nothing?
I'm curious if there will ever be this level of public involvement of a new product again. It will be interesting to see when the car is released what GM's thoughts are, was it worth the effort to keep us informed?
Registered User
Joined: Nov 1998
Posts: 3,252
From: Knoxville, TN
Going back to 1993:
1993 - V6 54%, V8 46%
1994 - V6 65.3%, V8 34.7%
1995 - V6 66.5%, V8 33.1%
1996 - V6 70.5%, V8 29.5%
1997 - V6 66%, V8 34%
1998 - V6 63.5%, V8 36.5%
1999 - V6 58.7%, V8 41.3%
2000 - V6 55.1%, V8 44.9%
The V6 easily made up the majority of 4th gen production.
1993 - V6 54%, V8 46%
1994 - V6 65.3%, V8 34.7%
1995 - V6 66.5%, V8 33.1%
1996 - V6 70.5%, V8 29.5%
1997 - V6 66%, V8 34%
1998 - V6 63.5%, V8 36.5%
1999 - V6 58.7%, V8 41.3%
2000 - V6 55.1%, V8 44.9%
The V6 easily made up the majority of 4th gen production.
What is more relevant - just the last few years, or the entire 4th Gen run? Hard to say, I suppose. Perhaps none at all is relevant. Perhaps a peak at recent Mustang V6 vs V8 numbers would shed more light.
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,897
From: Greenville, SC
All of these phrases keep popping into my head... "pushing the fuel efficient V-6," "premium pricing," etc.
Makes me wonder if GM will put a "premium" price on the V-8 to keep sales down on purpose to "push" the V-6 (and *gasp* 4 cylinder) models. Makes you think for a second, don't it?
Maybe the "Top Dog" is being held off for a year... because it's not really going to be built............... GM has ****ed us all before on promises.
Makes me wonder if GM will put a "premium" price on the V-8 to keep sales down on purpose to "push" the V-6 (and *gasp* 4 cylinder) models. Makes you think for a second, don't it?
Maybe the "Top Dog" is being held off for a year... because it's not really going to be built............... GM has ****ed us all before on promises.
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,574
From: Arlington, Texas
Makes me wonder if GM will put a "premium" price on the V-8 to keep sales down on purpose to "push" the V-6 (and *gasp* 4 cylinder) models. Makes you think for a second, don't it?
Maybe the "Top Dog" is being held off for a year... because it's not really going to be built............... GM has ****ed us all before on promises.
Maybe the "Top Dog" is being held off for a year... because it's not really going to be built............... GM has ****ed us all before on promises.
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,043
From: Shelbyville, IN
The lack of V6 sales was exactly what killed the 4th Gen, and exactly WHY the Mustang has still been around. TONS of V6 Mustangs get sold.
This is no big deal. Look at 3rd Gens, they had the old iron duke, V6, 305, and 350; which without looking at the numbers the 350 was minor in comparison and it was some of the best selling F-Bodies ever... iirc.
This is no big deal. Look at 3rd Gens, they had the old iron duke, V6, 305, and 350; which without looking at the numbers the 350 was minor in comparison and it was some of the best selling F-Bodies ever... iirc.
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,897
From: Greenville, SC
I don't know what that is?
Where's the 5.3L Colorado?
WHERE THE HELL are the 6 speed automatics in the SUVs and Trucks that were promised by the end of 2007? Now it's going to be 2009? WTF GM!
Also, apparently the Volt is going to be significantly off schedule as well.
Hydrogen vehicles? Not from GM, apparently GM is "doubtful" about the technology...
Anyone else see a pattern?
Where's the 5.3L Colorado?
WHERE THE HELL are the 6 speed automatics in the SUVs and Trucks that were promised by the end of 2007? Now it's going to be 2009? WTF GM!
Also, apparently the Volt is going to be significantly off schedule as well.
Hydrogen vehicles? Not from GM, apparently GM is "doubtful" about the technology...
GM, Toyota Doubtful on Fuel Cells' Mass Use
By EDWARD TAYLOR and MIKE SPECTOR
March 5, 2008; Page B2
GENEVA -- Top executives from General Motors Corp. and Toyota Motor Corp. Tuesday expressed doubts about the viability of hydrogen fuel cells for mass-market production in the near term and suggested their companies are now betting that electric cars will prove to be a better way to reduce fuel consumption and cut tailpipe emissions on a large scale.
Speaking at the Geneva auto show, GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz told reporters that recent advances in lithium-ion batteries indicate that future electric cars might be able to travel 300 miles, or nearly 500 kilometers, before they need to recharge, making them much more practical as a mass-market product.
"If we get lithium-ion to 300 miles, then you need to ask yourself, Why do you need fuel cells?" Mr. Lutz told reporters. He added that fuel-cell vehicles are still far too expensive to be considered for the mass market. "We are nowhere [near] where we need to be on the costs curve," he said.
At a separate event at the show, Toyota President Katsuaki Watanabe echoed the concern about the high costs of fuel cells and noted the lack of an infrastructure to produce and distribute hydrogen fuel to a wide swath of consumers. These factors leave him with the impression that "it will be difficult to see the spread of fuel cells in 10 years' time," Mr. Watanabe said.
The comments indicate a shift in the auto industry's tone regarding fuel cells, especially at GM, which has spent the past two years highlighting its fuel-cell technologies as one of many initiatives it is pursuing to reduce petroleum consumption.
By EDWARD TAYLOR and MIKE SPECTOR
March 5, 2008; Page B2
GENEVA -- Top executives from General Motors Corp. and Toyota Motor Corp. Tuesday expressed doubts about the viability of hydrogen fuel cells for mass-market production in the near term and suggested their companies are now betting that electric cars will prove to be a better way to reduce fuel consumption and cut tailpipe emissions on a large scale.
Speaking at the Geneva auto show, GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz told reporters that recent advances in lithium-ion batteries indicate that future electric cars might be able to travel 300 miles, or nearly 500 kilometers, before they need to recharge, making them much more practical as a mass-market product.
"If we get lithium-ion to 300 miles, then you need to ask yourself, Why do you need fuel cells?" Mr. Lutz told reporters. He added that fuel-cell vehicles are still far too expensive to be considered for the mass market. "We are nowhere [near] where we need to be on the costs curve," he said.
At a separate event at the show, Toyota President Katsuaki Watanabe echoed the concern about the high costs of fuel cells and noted the lack of an infrastructure to produce and distribute hydrogen fuel to a wide swath of consumers. These factors leave him with the impression that "it will be difficult to see the spread of fuel cells in 10 years' time," Mr. Watanabe said.
The comments indicate a shift in the auto industry's tone regarding fuel cells, especially at GM, which has spent the past two years highlighting its fuel-cell technologies as one of many initiatives it is pursuing to reduce petroleum consumption.
Last edited by Silverado C-10; Mar 22, 2008 at 09:41 PM.
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 204
From: Filthydelphia, PA
Would this stupid club include people who refuse to give GM the benefit of the doubt because they stilll have a year to F this up? If so, sign me up.
The more pictures I see, the more I like. However, the more I read, the more I see the V8 starting at $35K plus. At which point, GM can kiss my *****.
The more pictures I see, the more I like. However, the more I read, the more I see the V8 starting at $35K plus. At which point, GM can kiss my *****.
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,897
From: Greenville, SC
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 204
From: Filthydelphia, PA
No. It will be the LS3. Scott all but came out and said it. The LS2 is being phased out.
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 259
From: Macomb, MI
As long as the V8 is an option what does it matter how GM markets the car? And as mentioned earlier...the LS2 deserved to die. The new V6 can fill its place comfortably....and after that the 6.2 with MDA should be the next option on the ladder.
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Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 2,947
From: Springfield,OH. U.S.A.
Originally Posted by ForYourMalice
The more pictures I see, the more I like. However, the more I read, the more I see the V8 starting at $35K plus. At which point, GM can kiss my *****.
The more pictures I see, the more I like. However, the more I read, the more I see the V8 starting at $35K plus. At which point, GM can kiss my *****.
The more I read lately, the more I feel GM is distancing itself from it's typical fanbase, or at least from me.
Things like, "Premium Price" and "Not positioning it as a Muscle Car", gives me that sinking feeling...
While boosting gas milage, and improving public image are important, and essential to it's success and survival. I don't feel it's appropriate to make that the "focus" of "Camaro".
It should appeal b/c of the "fun factor", that smile you can't keep off your face when you're around it.
The power and sound of the "American V8..!!!", that awsome stance and Muscle flexed curves...and priced accessible to working people, young and old.
If a New Z28 hits $35K+, I'll have to settle for a used one in a couple of years.
ALMIGHTY MEMBER
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 2,298
From: Detroit, MI USA
Ok -- Calm down.......
..........if it has a big honkin' V8 that gets good gas mileage -- and blows every other car in its class away on the drag strip -- and it is best-in-class on a road course........
..............do you REALLY care how we market it? (I keep getting emails talking about commercials with wall -to - wall burnouts -- so you want us to preach to the choir????)
The bottom line is that we have to get people to consider a Camaro that may have never considered one before. (...unfortunately there IS some baggage that goes with Camaro/Mustang/Challenger...and that baggage isn't always good......)
There is a lot at stake with this car -- a LOT at stake.
Please -- calm down -- please don't jump to conclusions every time someone makes a statement that's taken out of context -- or every time a photo appears with something amiss.......
..........if it has a big honkin' V8 that gets good gas mileage -- and blows every other car in its class away on the drag strip -- and it is best-in-class on a road course........
..............do you REALLY care how we market it? (I keep getting emails talking about commercials with wall -to - wall burnouts -- so you want us to preach to the choir????)
The bottom line is that we have to get people to consider a Camaro that may have never considered one before. (...unfortunately there IS some baggage that goes with Camaro/Mustang/Challenger...and that baggage isn't always good......)
There is a lot at stake with this car -- a LOT at stake.
Please -- calm down -- please don't jump to conclusions every time someone makes a statement that's taken out of context -- or every time a photo appears with something amiss.......
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,897
From: Greenville, SC
Great points 90rocz. I feel the same way.
People keep bringing up the Mustang and it's sales. Yes, Ford sells A LOT of V-6 mustangs, but when was the last time you saw a V-6 in a Mustang Commercial? I don't recall ever seeing one. I recall the 2005+ 'Stangs as being CLEARLY marketed as "pony cars" and all I ever see in Commercials are the GT's. Remember the one with the kid and dad showing the kid how to drive the car in the parking lot. It shows the car revving then peeling out and the dad says something like "now son, this car is not a toy... want to do it again?"
In my opinion, the V-8's get people excited about looking at the car. The V-8 gets them TO the dealership. Whether they go home in the V-6 or not is up to the buyer.
This will be another "This is our Country" ****ty *** FAILURE of a marketing campaign for GM. I'm not alone on this. Many GM truck faithful hate this marketing campaign, especially with how strong the Tundra's marketing campaign has been.
Scott, I've read your postings before and I'm desperately clinging to "the faith." Please please please prove us all wrong! I'll eat "pricing crowe" with the rest of them, and do it proudly.
It's understandable how people get pissed (including me) so easily. It shows the GREAT LOVE we all have for a GORGEOUS car we all DESPERATELY want!
People keep bringing up the Mustang and it's sales. Yes, Ford sells A LOT of V-6 mustangs, but when was the last time you saw a V-6 in a Mustang Commercial? I don't recall ever seeing one. I recall the 2005+ 'Stangs as being CLEARLY marketed as "pony cars" and all I ever see in Commercials are the GT's. Remember the one with the kid and dad showing the kid how to drive the car in the parking lot. It shows the car revving then peeling out and the dad says something like "now son, this car is not a toy... want to do it again?"
In my opinion, the V-8's get people excited about looking at the car. The V-8 gets them TO the dealership. Whether they go home in the V-6 or not is up to the buyer.
This will be another "This is our Country" ****ty *** FAILURE of a marketing campaign for GM. I'm not alone on this. Many GM truck faithful hate this marketing campaign, especially with how strong the Tundra's marketing campaign has been.
Scott, I've read your postings before and I'm desperately clinging to "the faith." Please please please prove us all wrong! I'll eat "pricing crowe" with the rest of them, and do it proudly.
It's understandable how people get pissed (including me) so easily. It shows the GREAT LOVE we all have for a GORGEOUS car we all DESPERATELY want!
Last edited by Silverado C-10; Mar 22, 2008 at 11:10 PM.