Guy and Charlie both bring up good points. If you worry about every single detail, you wont enjoy the car for what it is. But, in the same aspect, if SOMEONE doesnt worry about the details at an engineering and design level, then you are gunna have upset people. Are 4 inches going to push me away from Camaro if the car handles like a dream, is powerful and is my every wish come true? No. But I wouldnt settle for a 4th gen type dimensions either. This car will be my daily driver, so I will have to live with it. While some people will have it for blasts down the highway or track on weekends when the weather is nice, I will be big on many things outiside of its performance.

I belive that GM has put together the best team for Camaro, and it has some of the best support any car that has came through the halls of GM outside of Corvette. For a car that was tossed to the wayside, there sure seems to be a lot of support for this car to be a multi-dimentional, transending vehicle that will take a lot of people's breaths away. I dont think that we will see this kind of support for any other vehicle. I really cant wait to get my hands on one. If they keep to there promises, and it looks like the concept, it will seriously be one hell of a hit for Chevy and GM.

 

the words are irrelevant. The point was supposed to be the car needs to handle.

 

To me this comment makes z-e-r-o sense. Some things are just going to be more important than others and the car will ultimately come down to trading off one thing for another. You can't approach it and say it's all critical because it's not *all* critical. What's going to make the car great is focusing on the end-product and making intelligent trade offs.

I work in the auto industry and I can tell you there are far too many poor trade-offs that are made on vehicle programs. The kind of things where you scratch your head and wonder how they lost sight of what they were trying to do. It happens and it kills greatness. But look at anyone who's been successful in *any* endeavor - they may control every detail, but they keep them all in their proper place and keep all the details moving relentlessly toward their goals. They know putting too much energy into the wrong details is a recipe for failure.

 

Of course there are trade offs. But at some point, you need some firmed up parameters or you will end up with an amorphous, unfocused sack of poo.

In this particular context we're talking about size. This is a ponycar right? The right size is an essential and critical ingredient. Get that part wrong - and IMO, the rest is virtually meaningless.

True, putting too much energy into wrong details IS a recipe for disaster. But so is not putting any energy into any details.

Not to call Guy out, but I think he posted that he'd only be concerned if the Camaro were the size of the Monte Carlo and weighed 4,200 lbs. WTF!?!!!!?!!?!!

Certainly, that car stopped being a Camaro WAAAAY before it reached the level of a 2+ ton, full sized coupe.

Which brings me to this question. For all of those generally unconcerned about the Camaro's size and weight - and there appear to be afew of you here - do you really care if you get a Camaro, or are you just looking for some random, generic RWD coupe?

 

If I didn't care on whether or not it was a Camaro, I'd probably be driving a Mustang GT500 right now. The fact is I do. However, I also think some people are blowing this size and weight thing out of proportion. If the guys that have seen the prototype say its hard to tell the difference between it and the concept, then we should be able to put it on faith that they will do the right thing. Faith. Remember Scott get telling us to "keep the faith"? I think some of us have lost faith and don't believe they'll be able to execute. Personally, I never lost faith. The concept was even better than I had expected. I expect nothing less than perfection with the actually production model. Which means I also expect a topdog Camaro called Z28 with Z06-like execution and performance, at a "Camaro-level", of course. I really don't expect a "two-ton" Camaro. Nor do I expect it to be the length of an SUV. However, I do expect it to be a Camaro, which means it also won't have BMW 3-series proportions either.

 

Not being concerned does not imply we dont care.

I'm not concerned because everything we've seen and everything we've heard indicates GM will get this right.

I'm not concerned because I know GM has the right people on this project. From Tom Peter's design team, to Doug Houlian's RWD archtecture team, to Cheryl Pilcher and others at corporate. These folks are passionate about what they do. We are in good hands.

.... besides.... if they were screwing it royally... we'd know by now. We'd be visiting Settlemire in a padded hospital room.

 

It will be interesting if the new Camaro comes out and weighs within ~100 lbs of what the GT500 weighs.

Bet a lot of folks forget all about the bad things they had to say about the GT500's weight, as it will all of a sudden not really matter what the new Camaro weighs....door handles and mirrors will be much more important.

I tell ya...so long as it says "Camaro" on the side of it, has 2 doors, and is RWD (optional, perhaps) that will be enough for a great many people here.

To each their own, of course.
Bob

 

Yep, exactly my thoughts

 

Maybe Bob, maybe.....but I definitely will not be one of them.

 

If the Camaro comes in anywhere near 3920 lbs then there will not be one sitting in my driveway . I would rather spend the 30-40k on a nicely used Corvette if it seriously comes in at ~3900 lbs.

 

Sad but true....

 

That's what Ford thought about the Probe, and they were clearly wrong. People, not just enthusiasts, clearly cared about power, weight, drive layout, and (for lack of a better word) cachet.

I don't think GM will make the same mistake.

 

Ok first off.....we know NOTHING about the production car whatsoever so the bickering is pointless.....Ive been waiting years for this car and ive said till i was blue in the face the camaro will return......second the car WILL handle why because it needs that to cpmpete in todays marketplace there is no reason why it wont handle unless ofcourse you want to hurt its sales also the car will HAUL *** in a straight line why? because thats what a camaro does this car will be a diffrent beast then the F car i can tell you that and that is somthing we need to understand this is not the camaro of old this is a new car so wait and see ppl

 

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Thank you, Johnny!!!


I could not bear reading thru this entire thread (and I can hear a few people screaming as I type this with "see!!! He doesn't care!!!.......) as it is, to a point -- pointless == and reading it would get my blood pressure up - something the heart surgeon keeps warning me about. (and Charlie -- I WILL come back to haunt you if I go to that great Camaro showroom in the sky!)

Chaz and company: I don't know how many more times I -- or anyone else at GM ---needs to say this .....WEIGHT IS OUR ENEMY. Along those lines -- SIZE IS OUR ENEMY. (larger size equals more weight.) The Chief Engineer sent you a message -- and that message was something along the lines of Jenny Craig being involved. Mr. Lutz himself has told you that it won't grow -- ..........

so........please -- let's calm down.

Yes -- some of you are hyper-passionate -- and that's good....but you do not corner the market on passion for the Camaro!

 

Guys, remember...You can make some of the people happy some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time. No matter what happens there are going to be some people just not happy with whatever happens. I have had people who don't like the new Silverado for the simple reason it's not the old Silverado. That's evolution. Things change and the guys and ladies at GM will do their best to make as many people happy as possible (translation: sales $), but some will say it needs another 100HP, others it's 75lbs. too heavy, the seat needs to go up 1 inch, roof is 1 inch too low. Regardless it is coming back and as an enthusiast I am very excited, and as a dealer relieved. Now, let's wait to see what the next 18 months gives us.