If the Camaro is such poop at the track....
Thread Starter
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,698
From: USA
If the Camaro is such poop at the track....
How do you explain this?
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58802
I thought I'd post Car and Driver's Lightning lap results for those who don't have the magazine.
Location - Virginia International Raceway
Grand West Course - "We chose the Grand West Course for its mix of straights, slow and high speed corners, uphill, esses, and 4.1 mile length."
Overall results.
1. Corvette ZR1, (2:51.8)
2. KTM X - Bow, (2:52.3)
3. Lamborghine LP670, (2:53.9)
4. Ariel Atom 3 (2:57.6)
5. Corvette Grand Sport (2:58.8)
6. Audi R8 (2:59.5)
7. Lotus Exiqe S 260 (3:05.0)
8. BMW M3 (3:05.4)
9. Porsche Cayman S (3:05.8)
10. Porsche Carrera S (3:05.8)
11. Jaguar XKR (3:06.4)
12. Ford Shelby GT500 (3:07.4)
13. Audi TTS (3:08.4)
14. Camaro SS (3:09.5)
15. Audi S4 (3:10.8)
16. Nissan Nismo 370z (3:12.0)
17. Ford Mustang GT (3:13.3)
18. Genesis Coupe 3.8 (3:14.8)
19. Mazdaspeed 3 (316:2)
20. Subaru WRX (3:16.6)
21. Mini Cooper Works (3:17.1)
22. Volkswagen GTI (3:19.3)
Location - Virginia International Raceway
Grand West Course - "We chose the Grand West Course for its mix of straights, slow and high speed corners, uphill, esses, and 4.1 mile length."
Overall results.
1. Corvette ZR1, (2:51.8)
2. KTM X - Bow, (2:52.3)
3. Lamborghine LP670, (2:53.9)
4. Ariel Atom 3 (2:57.6)
5. Corvette Grand Sport (2:58.8)
6. Audi R8 (2:59.5)
7. Lotus Exiqe S 260 (3:05.0)
8. BMW M3 (3:05.4)
9. Porsche Cayman S (3:05.8)
10. Porsche Carrera S (3:05.8)
11. Jaguar XKR (3:06.4)
12. Ford Shelby GT500 (3:07.4)
13. Audi TTS (3:08.4)
14. Camaro SS (3:09.5)
15. Audi S4 (3:10.8)
16. Nissan Nismo 370z (3:12.0)
17. Ford Mustang GT (3:13.3)
18. Genesis Coupe 3.8 (3:14.8)
19. Mazdaspeed 3 (316:2)
20. Subaru WRX (3:16.6)
21. Mini Cooper Works (3:17.1)
22. Volkswagen GTI (3:19.3)
Registered User
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 666
From: Stockton, Ca. USA
Go watch one at an autox and you will see a different story. On a road course the power the Camaro puts down can be used to its advantage but it really gets killed going into the corner. When I saw the new camaro autox it was fast out of the hole, slow into the corner but seemed decent coming out of a corner. It just pushed like a tractor.
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Posts: 3,698
From: USA
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From: Melbourne, Australia
You drive the car based on its strengths/weaknesses.
If the Camaro's corner attitude is predominantly understeer, you have to brake early and use the IRS's ability to roll (squat) to exit the corner more cleanly while applying the throttle early. Therefore, the improved exit speed out of the corner translates to a higher terminal speed at the end of the straight.
That's the short and curly of it.
If a comparative car is more stiffly sprung, it might be harder to get its power to the ground (i.e. slides more) although it probably feels more controllable (i.e. fun) under throttle. However, just because a car feels more fun or even more neutral in attitude around corners, it doesn't automatically mean its quicker around a circuit .
Of course I relate the last point to the Mustang (Camaro's rival).
End result? The stopwatch doesn't lie even if, subjectively, the quicker car isn't as fun to drive.
If the Camaro's corner attitude is predominantly understeer, you have to brake early and use the IRS's ability to roll (squat) to exit the corner more cleanly while applying the throttle early. Therefore, the improved exit speed out of the corner translates to a higher terminal speed at the end of the straight.
That's the short and curly of it.
If a comparative car is more stiffly sprung, it might be harder to get its power to the ground (i.e. slides more) although it probably feels more controllable (i.e. fun) under throttle. However, just because a car feels more fun or even more neutral in attitude around corners, it doesn't automatically mean its quicker around a circuit .
Of course I relate the last point to the Mustang (Camaro's rival).
End result? The stopwatch doesn't lie even if, subjectively, the quicker car isn't as fun to drive.
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Yes, it is incredibly ironic considering it is to counterpoint those who were (and still are) continually stating assumption as fact that the Camaro IS "poop at the track". If it were not for that, this would be less of a defensive measure and more of a celebratory one.
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Posts: 2,368
From: OR
It posts decent times, but as vids show, it just understeers and plows through all the turns. (Why does Chevy insist on tuning Camaro's this way? ref: stock 4th gen)
It has decent grip, but the driving dynamics near the limits seem to be boring. The times are saved by the engine.
Good grip and time #'s do not equate to good handling and driving characteristics. Also, I suspect put in an real race with other cars sharing the track, the Camaro would be put in a further disadvantage because it probably won't be as flexible on taking different lines.
Chevy doesn't need to improve the ultimate grip #'s, they just need to work on the dynamic driving characteristics on the edge. If they can work that magic for the CTSv, I don't see why they can't make the Camaro more exciting.
It has decent grip, but the driving dynamics near the limits seem to be boring. The times are saved by the engine.
Good grip and time #'s do not equate to good handling and driving characteristics. Also, I suspect put in an real race with other cars sharing the track, the Camaro would be put in a further disadvantage because it probably won't be as flexible on taking different lines.
Chevy doesn't need to improve the ultimate grip #'s, they just need to work on the dynamic driving characteristics on the edge. If they can work that magic for the CTSv, I don't see why they can't make the Camaro more exciting.
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http://www.automobilemag.com/feature...rack_test.html
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Posts: 666
From: Stockton, Ca. USA