How much power is enough for the Camaro?
01-26-2006, 01:12 PM
#31
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Location: Lilburn, GA, USA
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Re: How much power is enough for the Camaro?
Speaking of how much HP is enough, what ever happened to the super modafied cars that John Moss used to create? Is this type of concept car just outdated or do current funds strangle this type of performance expression? I really miss those vehicles. I always liked vehicles like the 470 hp rwd ~1998 Monte Carlo, or the ZL1 Camaro, or even the Moab Cavalier.
01-26-2006, 01:15 PM
#32
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Re: How much power is enough for the Camaro?
Originally Posted by christianjax
In my book there are 3 things you can't have enough of. And not in any particular order here they are.
Money, Horspower, and sex.
Depending on whatever need you have at any given moment, you have what it takes to git r done.
Money, Horspower, and sex.
Depending on whatever need you have at any given moment, you have what it takes to git r done.
01-26-2006, 01:18 PM
#33
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mahopac, NY
Posts: 369
Re: How much power is enough for the Camaro?
Originally Posted by Doug Harden
Seeing how many new Z06's are being wrecked.....even by the automotive "press"...I too worry about the hp levels being sold to an 'untrained' public.
500hp in the wrong hands is a weapon....
500hp in the wrong hands is a weapon....
01-26-2006, 01:33 PM
#34
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Re: How much power is enough for the Camaro?
Originally Posted by POWERFREAK
TRUE...there was a picture in the local paper of a flipped ZO6, just 2 days after it was purchased. That's a lot of power.
01-26-2006, 01:37 PM
#35
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Location: Exton, Pennsylvania
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Re: How much power is enough for the Camaro?
Originally Posted by Z284ever
Oh, don't get me wrong Chris, I don't necessarily disagree with you. Let me get back to my time in the LS2 GTO yesterday...because it got me thinking (I know...dangerous 
).
I thought this: Would another 100 hp make this a more fun car? My answer to myself was no. A sharper chassis would have. Less mass would have. A slicker shifter would have. And I'm not bashing the GTO, just being honest. I'll take more power if offered. But lots of things make a car awesome to drive. Power is one of those things...but far from the only thing. And power alone is not enough.
).I thought this: Would another 100 hp make this a more fun car? My answer to myself was no. A sharper chassis would have. Less mass would have. A slicker shifter would have. And I'm not bashing the GTO, just being honest. I'll take more power if offered. But lots of things make a car awesome to drive. Power is one of those things...but far from the only thing. And power alone is not enough.
My answer is, probably more than what Ford or Dodge are offering, as far as how much hp is really needed. I would like to see a car with a sharper chassis, less weight, a slicker shifter, etc.... though, because it does really make the driving experience more enjoyable.
01-26-2006, 02:09 PM
#36
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Re: How much power is enough for the Camaro?
Originally Posted by roosterjuicer
well said about the 4th gen. that car spanked the hell outta the mustang performance wise untill ford broke down and put a blower on the cobra yet ford spanked it on sales. why? personally i dont know, i would take a camaro over a mustang any day. but i know lots of girls who own mustang v6's where as i dont know a single girl who owns a camaro. i think the mustang was probably more comfortable and had less of the "fbody rattles" which i think might have given it more of a market prescence. otherwise i dont know. hopefully though gm can get more than just the performance crowd with the new camaro.
also, what is this ls3 i keep hearing about. im pretty well versed on gm motors and yet ive never heard of the ls3 untill i started posting on here (couple days ago) as far as i knew the ls2 and ls7 were the newest ls motors.
also, what is this ls3 i keep hearing about. im pretty well versed on gm motors and yet ive never heard of the ls3 untill i started posting on here (couple days ago) as far as i knew the ls2 and ls7 were the newest ls motors.
My sister has a black '96 5 speed V6, a friend in LA has a loaded black SS, a girl at work in San Pedro had a Z28 with t-tops. Then there was the neighbor's wife when I lived in Honolulu... she had a blue '00 Z28. Co-worker in San Diego drove another Camaro (V6, but still a stick), another girl at an apartment complex, again in San Diego, had.... again, a black SS.
That's just 4th gens.
It's a faillicy to think that the only reason Mustang sells is because "girls like them". Far more men bought Mustang GTs in 2002 than all the men who bought all the F-bodies combined.
Mustang sold more because it's a better packaged, easier to live with, daily driver that was updated comparatively regularly and had a bigger personalization parts catologue. This is far more important than raw horsepower. That's all.
Nothing more, nothing less.
01-26-2006, 02:30 PM
#37
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Re: How much power is enough for the Camaro?
As for horsepower, I think when you get around 4.5 seconds to 60 mph, you're at about the point of diminishing returns, and really need to rethink things.
Consider that in a few years, kids with just a year or 2 of driving experience under their belt (most likely with the parent's Honda or V6 Impala or Taurus) is going to be able to pick these land missles up on the used car lots.
Remember about 10-12 years ago when 5.0 Mustangs became the craze with the pre 20 crowd? Started hearing about these high profile crashes in the news about a teen driving a Mustang (they always use names when it's a Camaro or Mustang) at 100 and loses control. Insurence started going up on these things.... alot. Started hearing grumblings from concened parents. Ford went into a bunker for nearly a decade, not allowing Mustang GT to really gain power till '99.
Sure, you can govern the things, but then that defeats the purpose of 500 horsepower. If Ephedra can be banned simply because of 1 high profile death, all it's going to take is a few high profile accidents involving the words "young inexperienced driver" and "500 horsepower" and we're going to see our golden horsepower age shut down again.
Something with that much power should be limited in sales, and priced pretty well up there. Otherwise, we're opening a Pandora's Box.
Consider that in a few years, kids with just a year or 2 of driving experience under their belt (most likely with the parent's Honda or V6 Impala or Taurus) is going to be able to pick these land missles up on the used car lots.
Remember about 10-12 years ago when 5.0 Mustangs became the craze with the pre 20 crowd? Started hearing about these high profile crashes in the news about a teen driving a Mustang (they always use names when it's a Camaro or Mustang) at 100 and loses control. Insurence started going up on these things.... alot. Started hearing grumblings from concened parents. Ford went into a bunker for nearly a decade, not allowing Mustang GT to really gain power till '99.
Sure, you can govern the things, but then that defeats the purpose of 500 horsepower. If Ephedra can be banned simply because of 1 high profile death, all it's going to take is a few high profile accidents involving the words "young inexperienced driver" and "500 horsepower" and we're going to see our golden horsepower age shut down again.
Something with that much power should be limited in sales, and priced pretty well up there. Otherwise, we're opening a Pandora's Box.
01-26-2006, 02:49 PM
#38
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Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 2,282
Re: How much power is enough for the Camaro?
Just quoted Guy so people might read this twice....it is a real problem...
Originally Posted by guionM
As for horsepower, I think when you get around 4.5 seconds to 60 mph, you're at about the point of diminishing returns, and really need to rethink things.
Consider that in a few years, kids with just a year or 2 of driving experience under their belt (most likely with the parent's Honda or V6 Impala or Taurus) is going to be able to pick these land missles up on the used car lots.
Remember about 10-12 years ago when 5.0 Mustangs became the craze with the pre 20 crowd? Started hearing about these high profile crashes in the news about a teen driving a Mustang (they always use names when it's a Camaro or Mustang) at 100 and loses control. Insurence started going up on these things.... alot. Started hearing grumblings from concened parents. Ford went into a bunker for nearly a decade, not allowing Mustang GT to really gain power till '99.
Sure, you can govern the things, but then that defeats the purpose of 500 horsepower. If Ephedra can be banned simply because of 1 high profile death, all it's going to take is a few high profile accidents involving the words "young inexperienced driver" and "500 horsepower" and we're going to see our golden horsepower age shut down again.
Something with that much power should be limited in sales, and priced pretty well up there. Otherwise, we're opening a Pandora's Box.
Consider that in a few years, kids with just a year or 2 of driving experience under their belt (most likely with the parent's Honda or V6 Impala or Taurus) is going to be able to pick these land missles up on the used car lots.
Remember about 10-12 years ago when 5.0 Mustangs became the craze with the pre 20 crowd? Started hearing about these high profile crashes in the news about a teen driving a Mustang (they always use names when it's a Camaro or Mustang) at 100 and loses control. Insurence started going up on these things.... alot. Started hearing grumblings from concened parents. Ford went into a bunker for nearly a decade, not allowing Mustang GT to really gain power till '99.
Sure, you can govern the things, but then that defeats the purpose of 500 horsepower. If Ephedra can be banned simply because of 1 high profile death, all it's going to take is a few high profile accidents involving the words "young inexperienced driver" and "500 horsepower" and we're going to see our golden horsepower age shut down again.
Something with that much power should be limited in sales, and priced pretty well up there. Otherwise, we're opening a Pandora's Box.
01-26-2006, 02:59 PM
#39
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,370
Re: How much power is enough for the Camaro?
so... who is the most responsible company?
who's vehicles come with stablity control and traction control?
Does the Viper? Does the Mustang? does the Ford GT?
I know my 02 trans am has gotten me out of a few pickles... a little mud on the edge of the road, a little puddle on the freeway...
How much is enough? well... I want the best vehicle for the dollar... I dont care if the Mustang has a better rating in the gotta have it feature, and the challenger has the best in show feature...
as long as at the end of the day i'm in the lead, and i didnt spend as much.
As long as my car is controlable by me, and the average joe, i dont want insurance rates going up because people have too much power to controll their vehicles...
I dont want a vehicle that cant stop as quickly as it speeds up
I dont want a vehicle that cant be turned at high speeds (and i mean 150+, heh dont know if i ever get up that fast, again, but i was satified with everything about my trans am except its brakes)
I dont want a pig out there on the road cause everything has to be twice as strong(and heavy) to handle the power output.
what I want is the entire Camaro Package... Performance and style at a great value. The F-body might be different to some people, but thats what it is to me.
who's vehicles come with stablity control and traction control?
Does the Viper? Does the Mustang? does the Ford GT?
I know my 02 trans am has gotten me out of a few pickles... a little mud on the edge of the road, a little puddle on the freeway...
How much is enough? well... I want the best vehicle for the dollar... I dont care if the Mustang has a better rating in the gotta have it feature, and the challenger has the best in show feature...
as long as at the end of the day i'm in the lead, and i didnt spend as much.
As long as my car is controlable by me, and the average joe, i dont want insurance rates going up because people have too much power to controll their vehicles...
I dont want a vehicle that cant stop as quickly as it speeds up
I dont want a vehicle that cant be turned at high speeds (and i mean 150+, heh dont know if i ever get up that fast, again, but i was satified with everything about my trans am except its brakes)
I dont want a pig out there on the road cause everything has to be twice as strong(and heavy) to handle the power output.
what I want is the entire Camaro Package... Performance and style at a great value. The F-body might be different to some people, but thats what it is to me.
01-26-2006, 03:02 PM
#40
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: The Land of Pleasant Living
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Re: How much power is enough for the Camaro?
Originally Posted by christianjax
How much power is enough? In my book there are 3 things you can't have enough of. And not in any particular order here they are.
Money, Horspower, and sex.
Depending on whatever need you have at any given moment, you have what it takes to git r done.
Money, Horspower, and sex.
Depending on whatever need you have at any given moment, you have what it takes to git r done.
01-26-2006, 03:15 PM
#41
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Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Lilburn, GA, USA
Posts: 2,072
Re: How much power is enough for the Camaro?
Maybe the real answer is:When the public says it's enough. The market is driving this horse power war. When people start opting to buy vehicles that aren't concerned with power figures or something along those lines, then the auto makers will follow. Until then, the public is just getting what they want.
01-26-2006, 03:30 PM
#42
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Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,646
Re: How much power is enough for the Camaro?
I doubt the public will ever say 'enough is enough'. Honestly, could you say when's enough? 400 horsepower probably makes you happy, but would you turn down 5-10 more?
It will be some outside factore (increased economy, emmisions, new fuel source, insurance rates, etc) that will more than likely influence power offerings.
It will be some outside factore (increased economy, emmisions, new fuel source, insurance rates, etc) that will more than likely influence power offerings.
01-26-2006, 04:11 PM
#43
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Location: South Bend , IN
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Re: How much power is enough for the Camaro?
I think the hp wars are gonna reach wall soon . I mean they have to . I think theres plenty of people that are gonna buy the 500 hp Z06 that dont have the resonsiblity to own a 500 hp car , at that power level ....little mistakes have alot more serious consequenses the average Joe I dont think understands . I have already seen a couple absolutely mangled C6 Z06's . Im a HP freak ,but I think at some point 5-600 hp cars for the masses is a Dumb idea . Dumb dumb dumb .
With the mid level V8 car , I think chevy oughta pull a sn-95 mustang trick . Build a damn fine car in all possible aspects people will love to drive and keep power levels at around 300-350 . Sales would go off the charts . And for the enthusist , the very modular LSx engines are humourously easy to get BIG dog gains . I personally think the base camaro sould have a low power V8 option , with a entirely separate intermediate model with a 400 hp LSx .
But for the Glory model , power levels should most certainly trump the competition
With the mid level V8 car , I think chevy oughta pull a sn-95 mustang trick . Build a damn fine car in all possible aspects people will love to drive and keep power levels at around 300-350 . Sales would go off the charts . And for the enthusist , the very modular LSx engines are humourously easy to get BIG dog gains . I personally think the base camaro sould have a low power V8 option , with a entirely separate intermediate model with a 400 hp LSx .
But for the Glory model , power levels should most certainly trump the competition
01-26-2006, 04:27 PM
#44
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Location: Nashville, TN
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Re: How much power is enough for the Camaro?
Originally Posted by 90 Z28SS
With the mid level V8 car , I think chevy oughta pull a sn-95 mustang trick . Build a damn fine car in all possible aspects people will love to drive and keep power levels at around 300-350 . Sales would go off the charts . And for the enthusist , the very modular LSx engines are humourously easy to get BIG dog gains . I personally think the base camaro sould have a low power V8 option , with a entirely separate intermediate model with a 400 hp LSx .
Camaro V6 250hp
Camaro V8 LS4 325hp
Camaro SS LS2 400hp
Camaro Z28 LS3 450hp
01-26-2006, 04:41 PM
#45
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Re: How much power is enough for the Camaro?
Originally Posted by Chris 96 WS6
For the sake of the car, that's what I think has to happen too. Women and even some men get scared off of super-high HP cars. Give them a modest V8 that sounds good but they won't fear.
Camaro V6 250hp
Camaro V8 LS4 325hp
Camaro SS LS2 400hp
Camaro Z28 LS3 450hp
Camaro V6 250hp
Camaro V8 LS4 325hp
Camaro SS LS2 400hp
Camaro Z28 LS3 450hp
LS2 (or it's replacement) will be splitting the difference between the current version and the LS7.
Going back to dream '94 Z28's post about the public never saying enough, he's right. 13 years ago when we got a 275 horse LT1 Z28, we nearly lost our minds! We thought 245 horses was king (especially when 225 horse Mustangs were burning up the streets).
But think about it..... we're talking twice the horsepower.
I have no issue with Corvettes going up to 500 or 600 horsepower, or GT500 Mustangs going to 500 or beyond. Those are cars that most likely won't end up ever bought by an 18 year old who just landed a full time job at Wal-Mart.
But when we start talking about 500 horse, $25,000 cars that will be sold used for $12-15,000 in a few years......
