How much power is enough for the Camaro?
01-26-2006, 10:42 AM
#16
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 59
Re: How much power is enough for the Camaro?
whats all this about the 08 emissions? and why cant the ls7 handle them? ive always thought gm was pretty much on top of things when it came to emissions and stuff.
as to power i figure 400 is plenty for a z28. but i would love to see the weight come down. the gto is a sweet car, but its so damn heavy that even with 400hp its not quite the speed demon that it should be. the new gto weighs quite a bit more than my 1992 fbody and nobody ever accused the F-body's of being light.
but since gm prolly wont make it any lighter i would say 400 is fine for a z28 and around 480-500 for an ss to battle the cobra or gt 500 or whatever they are calling it. i would also love to see a rs or something with the 5.3 in it putting around 320 priced well below the mustang gt.
as to power i figure 400 is plenty for a z28. but i would love to see the weight come down. the gto is a sweet car, but its so damn heavy that even with 400hp its not quite the speed demon that it should be. the new gto weighs quite a bit more than my 1992 fbody and nobody ever accused the F-body's of being light.
but since gm prolly wont make it any lighter i would say 400 is fine for a z28 and around 480-500 for an ss to battle the cobra or gt 500 or whatever they are calling it. i would also love to see a rs or something with the 5.3 in it putting around 320 priced well below the mustang gt.
01-26-2006, 10:47 AM
#17
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Re: How much power is enough for the Camaro?
Originally Posted by roosterjuicer
whats all this about the 08 emissions? and why cant the ls7 handle them? ive always thought gm was pretty much on top of things when it came to emissions and stuff.
as to power i figure 400 is plenty for a z28. but i would love to see the weight come down. the gto is a sweet car, but its so damn heavy that even with 400hp its not quite the speed demon that it should be. the new gto weighs quite a bit more than my 1992 fbody and nobody ever accused the F-body's of being light.
but since gm prolly wont make it any lighter i would say 400 is fine for a z28 and around 480-500 for an ss to battle the cobra or gt 500 or whatever they are calling it. i would also love to see a rs or something with the 5.3 in it putting around 320 priced well below the mustang gt.
as to power i figure 400 is plenty for a z28. but i would love to see the weight come down. the gto is a sweet car, but its so damn heavy that even with 400hp its not quite the speed demon that it should be. the new gto weighs quite a bit more than my 1992 fbody and nobody ever accused the F-body's of being light.
but since gm prolly wont make it any lighter i would say 400 is fine for a z28 and around 480-500 for an ss to battle the cobra or gt 500 or whatever they are calling it. i would also love to see a rs or something with the 5.3 in it putting around 320 priced well below the mustang gt.
01-26-2006, 10:49 AM
#18
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Re: How much power is enough for the Camaro?
Originally Posted by Chris 96 WS6
Dangerously close? Charlie, HP numbers sell cars, not curb weight numbers. Until that changes, yes this is going to be a big pissing contest..like it or not.
I see where you're coming from but Scott says over and over the Camaro has to be best in class at basically everything...If that means its best in class weight AND hp then we're in for a bloodbath.
I see where you're coming from but Scott says over and over the Camaro has to be best in class at basically everything...If that means its best in class weight AND hp then we're in for a bloodbath.
).I thought this: Would another 100 hp make this a more fun car? My answer to myself was no. A sharper chassis would have. Less mass would have. A slicker shifter would have. And I'm not bashing the GTO, just being honest. I'll take more power if offered. But lots of things make a car awesome to drive. Power is one of those things...but far from the only thing. And power alone is not enough.
01-26-2006, 10:50 AM
#19
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Re: How much power is enough for the Camaro?
Why is it GM vehicles get no credit for fuel mileage anyway? Go talk to an F150 owner or a Taurus owner and compare numbers in Real World to something like an Impala or Silverado.
01-26-2006, 11:03 AM
#20
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Location: Nashville, TN
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Re: How much power is enough for the Camaro?
Originally Posted by Z284ever
And power alone is not enough.
As for '08 emissions, I don't know much about it myself but something I think PacerX alluded to in another thread.
My guess is the comparatively big combustion chambers of the LS7, due to the 4.125" bore, means it is a little dirtier than the 3.90" bore LS1 or 4" LS2.....but what's puzzling is that the L92/LS3 has the same 4.125 bore.
I need to do some more investigating...
01-26-2006, 11:16 AM
#21
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Location: Minneapolis, MN
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Re: How much power is enough for the Camaro?
Disclaimer: these are the words of a relatively inexperienced (as far as high-powered cars go) "n00b" 
Having gotten that out of the way, probably the most powerful car that I have driven was my '00 SS. I know, not a very powerful car, but still fun. Did I want more power? Absolutely, did I need more power? The answer for many will be different, but for a daily-driven street vehicle, I didn't really need more power.
Having recently sold my MR2 when I got my SS I was a bit worried about what an extra 100+hp would be like. I was afraid that it might be a bit of a handful, but it really wasn't, I even drove it all winter up here in MN, including blizzard conditions, driving in several inches of snow, even deep enough that I was plowing it with my front bumper (stock ride height.) In comparison, my MR2 with only 200hp was much more of a handful, and would bite hard even on clean dry pavement if you weren't careful.
I know I'm comparing completely different cars with very little in common, but my point is that chassis dynamics play a very large part in the whole package. I'm sure that the current Z06 is a lot more car that I can handle at my current skill level. I would love to learn, but it truly is a world class sports car, and I'm at best a mediocre driver. I would expect the Camaro to be a bit more forgiving of a car than the Z06, even with similar power ratings.
Now, more to the point of the thread, how much power is enough? Truthfully, when I first started lurking on this board and learned that GM was working on a new Camaro, I expected the top engine to be in the ~350hp range, and that made me quite happy. When I heard the LS2 was a likely option, I was overjoyed. ~400hp would make me a happy man, and if later on I feel the need for more, its not really that hard to come by. How many LS1s are putting 400+ to the wheels? Countless, and it wasn't all that hard to do.
Having gotten that out of the way, probably the most powerful car that I have driven was my '00 SS. I know, not a very powerful car, but still fun. Did I want more power? Absolutely, did I need more power? The answer for many will be different, but for a daily-driven street vehicle, I didn't really need more power.
Having recently sold my MR2 when I got my SS I was a bit worried about what an extra 100+hp would be like. I was afraid that it might be a bit of a handful, but it really wasn't, I even drove it all winter up here in MN, including blizzard conditions, driving in several inches of snow, even deep enough that I was plowing it with my front bumper (stock ride height.) In comparison, my MR2 with only 200hp was much more of a handful, and would bite hard even on clean dry pavement if you weren't careful.
I know I'm comparing completely different cars with very little in common, but my point is that chassis dynamics play a very large part in the whole package. I'm sure that the current Z06 is a lot more car that I can handle at my current skill level. I would love to learn, but it truly is a world class sports car, and I'm at best a mediocre driver. I would expect the Camaro to be a bit more forgiving of a car than the Z06, even with similar power ratings.
Now, more to the point of the thread, how much power is enough? Truthfully, when I first started lurking on this board and learned that GM was working on a new Camaro, I expected the top engine to be in the ~350hp range, and that made me quite happy. When I heard the LS2 was a likely option, I was overjoyed. ~400hp would make me a happy man, and if later on I feel the need for more, its not really that hard to come by. How many LS1s are putting 400+ to the wheels? Countless, and it wasn't all that hard to do.
01-26-2006, 11:54 AM
#22
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Posts: 59
Re: How much power is enough for the Camaro?
Originally Posted by Chris 96 WS6
As the 4th gen demonstrated pretty well.
As for '08 emissions, I don't know much about it myself but something I think PacerX alluded to in another thread.
My guess is the comparatively big combustion chambers of the LS7, due to the 4.125" bore, means it is a little dirtier than the 3.90" bore LS1 or 4" LS2.....but what's puzzling is that the L92/LS3 has the same 4.125 bore.
I need to do some more investigating...
As for '08 emissions, I don't know much about it myself but something I think PacerX alluded to in another thread.
My guess is the comparatively big combustion chambers of the LS7, due to the 4.125" bore, means it is a little dirtier than the 3.90" bore LS1 or 4" LS2.....but what's puzzling is that the L92/LS3 has the same 4.125 bore.
I need to do some more investigating...
also, what is this ls3 i keep hearing about. im pretty well versed on gm motors and yet ive never heard of the ls3 untill i started posting on here (couple days ago) as far as i knew the ls2 and ls7 were the newest ls motors.
01-26-2006, 11:56 AM
#23
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Re: How much power is enough for the Camaro?
Originally Posted by Z284ever
That's exactly what I'm talking about. They are nothing but arbitrary numbers for many here. It's nothing but bragging rights. My number is bigger than your number is what it seems we're coming down to....not how well it performs or how fun it is to drive.
I mean just for example, (just pulling out numbers)...if Camaro had 400 or 425 hp, but weighed..oh, say 500 lbs less than GT500, and had a far superior chassis, brakes, etc....and could COMPLETELY clean Mustang's clock in every performance category possible...would anyone be impressed by that? Or MUST you have the bigger power number. I mean if Camaro is a lumbering pig (just for sake of this argument), but is rated at 476 hp...is that what really matters?
I feel like we're dangerously close to getting into "my pee-pee is ONE horsepower more than yours, even if it doesn't work as well", frame of mind.
I mean just for example, (just pulling out numbers)...if Camaro had 400 or 425 hp, but weighed..oh, say 500 lbs less than GT500, and had a far superior chassis, brakes, etc....and could COMPLETELY clean Mustang's clock in every performance category possible...would anyone be impressed by that? Or MUST you have the bigger power number. I mean if Camaro is a lumbering pig (just for sake of this argument), but is rated at 476 hp...is that what really matters?
I feel like we're dangerously close to getting into "my pee-pee is ONE horsepower more than yours, even if it doesn't work as well", frame of mind.
If you just go by your question: "How much power is enough for the Camaro?", then the answer would, and should, be more than the competition. If obtaining that is at a sacrifice to the rest of the car, then it would be a tough decision. I think what you are really asking is: at what point does the pursuit of the biggest HP figure cut into the total package and sacrifice the driving experience. That is a tough question and hard to answer.
01-26-2006, 12:22 PM
#24
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Location: Orange Park, FL
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Re: How much power is enough for the Camaro?
I am on board with the idea that "enough" horse power is "enough." Does my SS really need an extra 100HP! Make it $10,000 lighter not $10,000 more powerful. Make it $10,000 more fuel efficient. Make it $10,000 less expensive...But on the other hand, what percentage of the buying public have any idea what their car weighs. Light weight doesn't sell unless it's made in Italy.
But i like what VW did with there GX3 concept. They made it so light it'll go from 0-60 in 5.7 and get 46mpg...It's an interesting concept.
But i like what VW did with there GX3 concept. They made it so light it'll go from 0-60 in 5.7 and get 46mpg...It's an interesting concept.
01-26-2006, 12:24 PM
#25
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Location: Albany, NY
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Re: How much power is enough for the Camaro?
I think a 350HP 5.3L LS4 will be enough for the person that wants a faster than V6 car. A 350HP Camaro would be the most powerful modern Camaro yet, and with the LS4s smaller displacement and DoD you would be looking at a 30mpg hwy car. Then make the LS2 an option for those that want even more power and are willing to spend over $30K. By 2008 we could possibly see a VVT LS2 putting out ~420HP, or leave it at 400HP to give some room for a 450HP 6.2L Camaro Z28.
It was only 5 years ago that 400HP+ was for the Z06, Vipers, and Ferarris of the world.
It was only 5 years ago that 400HP+ was for the Z06, Vipers, and Ferarris of the world.
01-26-2006, 12:26 PM
#26
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Location: Kingsville, TX
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Re: How much power is enough for the Camaro?
Originally Posted by SNEAKY NEIL
...I think what you are really asking is: at what point does the pursuit of the biggest HP figure cut into the total package and sacrifice the driving experience...
-John
01-26-2006, 12:46 PM
#28
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Location: Jacksonville Florida
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Re: How much power is enough for the Camaro?
How much power is enough? In my book there are 3 things you can't have enough of. And not in any particular order here they are.
Money, Horspower, and sex.
Depending on whatever need you have at any given moment, you have what it takes to git r done.
Money, Horspower, and sex.
Depending on whatever need you have at any given moment, you have what it takes to git r done.
01-26-2006, 01:05 PM
#30
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Re: How much power is enough for the Camaro?
Originally Posted by roosterjuicer
also, what is this ls3 i keep hearing about. im pretty well versed on gm motors and yet ive never heard of the ls3 untill i started posting on here (couple days ago) as far as i knew the ls2 and ls7 were the newest ls motors.
Its coming to the Vette to replace the LS2, and its going to be 450hp and be called the LS3. There's going to be a blown version as well called the LS9, 600hp. Rumors are that these motors will debut in 2008.
What I don't know yet is if this means the LS2 will be phased out or if it will continue to be offered along side the other options.
If the so called corvette rule is still in effect then the most we may get for Camaro is the LS3.