First off your quote was "but the car must still come in at (I think) a cheaper price than the Mustang." I take MUST To me it is like a coach saying we must score or we will lose or anything less is termed a failure. If I misunderstoody you I am sorry.

Second off you need to review what GM's intentions are. They have from the start have not put the pressure on the Camaro to out sell the Mustang they would like to see sales of around 100,000 cars. If GM can sell more they will build them but they did not over project the car just as they did the HHR or Malibu.

The last Camaro did not sell in great numbers mostly due to the fact they did not have a great V6 package that was very attractive to many as it was in a much larger car than the Mustang.

Also the Camaro was not a attractive package to many female drivers as it sat low had a sloping nose that many women and shorter people found they could not see out of or get out of easily. The Camaro was a guy type car for most buyers and that is who bought most of them. Women are over 50% of most new car buyers and the old Camaro package was not on the top of most female buyers list. This point really hurts in a very limited coupe market.

The 4th Gen was a great performance car but not a car that appealed to a larger group of buyers even excluding price. This one reason is why more were not sold. I do admit price did play a factor for some but not all.

The new Camaro is aimed at a larger group and should appeal to many more buyers. I agree they need to keep a affordable V6 package but I do not see it being a problem is it is just a little more expensive.

The pricing of the G8 and Malibu shows GM is serious about being competitive in most markets. I trust them to know best to price this car to where it sells for the long term.

As for sales they will decline regardless of price in 3-4 years as has the Mustangs. The coupe market is a limited market as most cars sold are sedans. The Vette does the same as the first 2-3 years of each platform is the best selling and it declines each year after till the next new platform arrives.

Watch and learn what GM's says and what their targets are in market and price and it is very telling on how they plan to make this car competitive with the Mustang. Scott and the other in many of their statments have made it clear what they hope to do. They can not and will not set prices till late this year as it can not be done now. They will do the best they can and we will not be disapointed.

 

You did mis-understand me and I have a hard time believing that the Camaro is not a competitor to the Mustang. In other words, I believe that the Camaro will compete with the Mustang for potential buyers. If GM is happy with 100,000 sales a year then good for them, but if I were someone responsible for the Camaro product at GM, would not be satisfied with that.

 

Sure, it's meant to compete with Mustang. But being $1500 higher than the Stang, comparably equipped, won't have a heck of any impact on its marketplace competitiveness. Features, performance, and style WILL though. And if GM can sell 100k units at a good profit (remember - it's all about PROFIT), that sure beats selling 120k units at zero profit.

 

Ah move to the front of the class as you understand what they are doing.

 

I've never been one to spread rumors on this site.....but being in Detroit lots of us know people who work for suppliers. I was just informed by my neighbor (who works for a supplier) that they got a call yesterday from ????? at GM informing them that the parts they are making for the camaro will be changing because there will be NO V-8's made.

Take it for what its worth...thats exactly what she told me. Let's hope this is an incorrect interpretation regarding this issue, and I apologize if I am putting out rumors that I got from an actual supplier.

 

I think that is one of the most inaccurate rumors so far. Why the hell would there be no V8's? GM stops V8 production for a year? No full-size trucks? No Corvette? No Pontiac G8? I don't believe it for a second.

 

Yeah, I'd have to see that to beleive it. Having no V8 in the F5 would be like, well that'd be as bad as getting involved in a land war in asia.

Are you being serious or is this some sort of flame bait?

 

God do I hope you are correct! I just hope the bean counters have not totally taken over the company and figured that if they denied Camaro buyers the option of a high performance V8 they might chase them towards the higer priced/more profitable Corvette. Obviously Corvette sales have picked up this year judging from the price increases they have had.
I would have to believe that not producing V8 cars would **** lots of people off. And if they were to only produce a limited number it would also push a lot of buyers towards the Vette. There's no way I would pay the ADM on a limited Camaro that would equal what a Vette would cost. I'm starting to wonder if Ford allowing that happen with the GT 500 Mustang had anything to do with the Vette sales increasing? There is now way a Mustang GT 500 can hold a torch to the Vette for even money (or even much less).
I told her to keep her ears open for any clarification on this. She did say however that it had come as a total surprise to the company and they were scrambling to accomodate the change. Possibly the part they were making to V8 specific cars got moved to a different supplier? I will post any updates on this that I get. Hopefully GM just changed suppliers on whatever this particular part is.

 

No car manufacturer really has any sway over ADMs, Cars are priced according to what the market will bear for them. Dealers are encouraged to put monster ADMs on cars because people have been reckless with thier finances (hopefully with all this discretionary income having dried up, ADMs will be moderated). I can attest to the GM dealer in my area has not been shy about putting 10-20k ADMs on cars for at least the last 20 years. The Z06 there was listed at 91k and a 3 Gen RX-7 back in the 90's was selling for over 40k in base trim through thier import affilate. As for GT500 ADMs increasing Vette sale appreciably, I doubt its even a blip on the the radar. On the Mustang board I frequent out of all the "pissed, cause I can't buy one due to ADM" folks, one guy bought a vette, the other bought a Cayman. IMO alot of GT500 fans are waiting on the Challenger or Camaro and most of them are probably looking to leverage the GM & DC cars in order to get the GT500 at a deal.

 

Simply NOT TRUE.

 

We all knew the V8's were gonna be made, but I think we're a bit skeptical about pricing now. I'm sure any reasonable person (including myself) simply assumed the entry level V8 (whether it will be the SS or Z/28) would be no less than $27k before options (Scott, if it is, I'll personally come over and give you a great big hug ).

Now I know you don't have pricing set, but I'm sure you have at least a vague range of about where it could be at this point.

I think some of us are a bit worried that now any V8 pricing could start far north of $30k because of that damned "C" word. Then you add options and the car slowly encroaches Corvette territory pricewise.

Do our fears have merrit or are we making much ado about nothing?

 

Short term there will be the V8's we all know and love.

Long term {10 Years from now} there will still be V8's. They may not be as big or as in as many models and run on alturnitive fuels in the future but there will be V8's.

 

FBF has said numerous times, pricing for the new Camaro is likely to be very similar to the Mustang. But note that V8 Mustangs are going up too, and the 2010 Mustang V8 will be up since it's not immune to CAFE either. A loaded Mustang GT Premium coupe today, is over $38K MSRP. Plus, it sure seems like from what I'm reading on the web, the Camaro will not be out with some kind of 'entry V8'. It seems like the 'winkie club' talks a lot about an entry V6, an uplevel V6, and one V8, IIRC.

 

I just went on Ford.com to build one, and sure enough you are right...... but most of the options I wouldn't get for myself. I built it with what I would like and it came in a hair over $30k including dest. charge. That's what I'm talking about. I can handle that.

There are alot of frivolous, stupid options Ford offers on the Mustang. Narrow it down to actual, functional, logical features and you still come in far below $38k.

Now, if GM is going to offer select-a-color gauges, 5 different interior dress up kits, and all sorts of other dohickies, I guess you could option out a Camaro to almost $40k.

As for the V6s, based on the spy shots of the engine in the prototype, I'm going to go out on a limb and say the one and only base V6 will be the 3.6 DI VVT. Why do I think DI? Because the Chevy Traverse will have the DI'd 3.6 standard. And there ain't no Camaro, no matter how base, barebones, no options, no V8, no nothin in the world that is going to play second fiddle to a crossover SUV.

That also goes along with GM's new order of vehicle releases, whereas each new model is progressively better than the models introduced or redesigned as recent and last year, even if they are built on the same platform and compete at a lower end price point. The Traverse will have the DI'd 3.6, and currently all the other Lambdas use the non DI'd 3.6, even though the Enclave is about $10k more expensive and in an upper end of competition.

So, my bet for the base V6 in the Camaro is the DI 3.6.

 

Exactly. I agree completely.

I priced a sensibly optioned GT a few days ago and it came out around $28K. I then priced a sensibly optioned Bullitt and it came out to just over $31K

Yup.

One thing you have to keep in mind though is that frivolous options seem to be in vogue around here as of late. I really think some of these people need to be in a Cadillac instead of a Camaro.