Fact or Fiction? PHR says 300 HP V6 Standard
02-06-2008, 03:49 PM
#46
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It could be suicide for the base V6 camaro to come in at or even near $25k. Not that it wouldn't potentially be a decent car (if you can get past the interior) with a 300hp V6, but getting the kind of volume camaro needs will be tough at that kind of price point.
If they were trying to sell only 50 k units with a 35k / 15k mix of V6 / V8, maybe you could do a $25k base car. but if you want to sell 70-100k base V6 cars, no way.
If they were trying to sell only 50 k units with a 35k / 15k mix of V6 / V8, maybe you could do a $25k base car. but if you want to sell 70-100k base V6 cars, no way.
02-06-2008, 04:34 PM
#47
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First off as I stated in the first post this was PHR and info that could not be backed up as of yet.
Second most Mustangs are $24,000-32,000. As few people buy them stripped down. Most have upgraded optuons and audio.
The other thing to consider too is the Camaro even at a little higher price will be a better value. Better performance, better suspension and equipment not even available on the Mustange like IRS. For a little more money you will get a much better car.
Now when you cross over into the $30,000 and up class things change.
The bottom line is the average car today cost more than $26,000 today. and being a car like the Camaro it is not going to be priced as a Cobalt as it is much more car.
I still think the LO PO engine is still in line but the DI V6 is the future. The DI engines are to this decade what FI was to the 80's. Not too many years all that will be avaiable will be the DI engine.
Second most Mustangs are $24,000-32,000. As few people buy them stripped down. Most have upgraded optuons and audio.
The other thing to consider too is the Camaro even at a little higher price will be a better value. Better performance, better suspension and equipment not even available on the Mustange like IRS. For a little more money you will get a much better car.
Now when you cross over into the $30,000 and up class things change.
The bottom line is the average car today cost more than $26,000 today. and being a car like the Camaro it is not going to be priced as a Cobalt as it is much more car.
I still think the LO PO engine is still in line but the DI V6 is the future. The DI engines are to this decade what FI was to the 80's. Not too many years all that will be avaiable will be the DI engine.
02-06-2008, 04:41 PM
#48
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First off as I stated in the first post this was PHR and info that could not be backed up as of yet.
Second most Mustangs are $24,000-32,000. As few people buy them stripped down. Most have upgraded optuons and audio.
The other thing to consider too is the Camaro even at a little higher price will be a better value. Better performance, better suspension and equipment not even available on the Mustange like IRS. For a little more money you will get a much better car.
Now when you cross over into the $30,000 and up class things change.
The bottom line is the average car today cost more than $26,000 today. and being a car like the Camaro it is not going to be priced as a Cobalt as it is much more car.
I still think the LO PO engine is still in line but the DI V6 is the future. The DI engines are to this decade what FI was to the 80's. Not too many years all that will be avaiable will be the DI engine.
Second most Mustangs are $24,000-32,000. As few people buy them stripped down. Most have upgraded optuons and audio.
The other thing to consider too is the Camaro even at a little higher price will be a better value. Better performance, better suspension and equipment not even available on the Mustange like IRS. For a little more money you will get a much better car.
Now when you cross over into the $30,000 and up class things change.
The bottom line is the average car today cost more than $26,000 today. and being a car like the Camaro it is not going to be priced as a Cobalt as it is much more car.
I still think the LO PO engine is still in line but the DI V6 is the future. The DI engines are to this decade what FI was to the 80's. Not too many years all that will be avaiable will be the DI engine.
02-06-2008, 04:50 PM
#49
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02-06-2008, 04:55 PM
#50
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I don't know about what Mustangs are moving at, but the FTC, reporting on data from the NDA, says the average price of a car is $28,400:
A new car is second only to a home as the most expensive purchase many consumers make. According to the National Automobile Dealers Association, the average price of a new car sold in the United States is $28,400. That’s why it’s important to know how to make a smart deal.
A new car is second only to a home as the most expensive purchase many consumers make. According to the National Automobile Dealers Association, the average price of a new car sold in the United States is $28,400. That’s why it’s important to know how to make a smart deal.
02-06-2008, 05:09 PM
#51
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GM could easily do what they've done in the past,
advertise it as "starting at 19,995" but not tell you that version is completely stripped down and very hard to find. I tried to locate a stripped down Mustang V6 and I found one in Ohio, I live in Chicago. I wouldn't mind a real stripper without sound deadener, a basic cd player 4 speaker stereo, no wing, etc. maybe a kind of car that'd be perfect for a motor swap or build up, but if the 300 hp V6 is in it, then it'd be plenty for me (until I turbo it). I think GM should recognize the potential of a strip down Camaro and offer it or offer a V8 stripper, with the engine and suspension/ brakes of the V8 cars but no other extras. There are a lot of people who prefer to buy a car and modify it to their own taste, if the Camaro is offered at the right price point, it will be one of those vehicles.
Rumors have stated the V6 Camaro will be comparable to the V6 Mustang in price, and the BASE V8 will be comparable to the Base Mustang GT. by 2010, the Mustang will cost more, plus it is getting a facelift and a new engine. I can't find it anymore but I read a rumor that the Boss is coming out and will have a 390 hp Hurricane 5.4L V8, will be a stripped down version of the Shelby GT500, with a much lighter engine. That will be a hot car. If they switch to the 3.5L Duratec, the V6 can have 270 hp and be right on par with the 3.6L slotted for the Camaro unless they do use the DI and squeeze a few more ponies out of it by then. But they might switch to DI by then as well and be right there as well.
The new Malibu, the Saturns, the G8, the Solstice and whatever I am forgetting, show me that GM is thinking in the right direction. Now if I can just find someone to give me what I owe (or close to it) on my stupid dodge, I would trade for a Malibu today.
I do think all this speculation, wishing and hoping does get taken into account though. I do think they read this and see what we are thinking, and some of it has to get taken into account. We have some very smart people on here, and a lot of people have hoped for some of the things GM has more recently stated will happen. Either we think on the same level as some of the people they got working there, or it gets taken into account, or both.
I remember pricing out a 1999 Camaro Custom order with a Z28 and SS option and nothing else, it was I think a few bucks under 28k. Then I walked outside and saw a loaded up T-top RS (V6) for about 30k.
advertise it as "starting at 19,995" but not tell you that version is completely stripped down and very hard to find. I tried to locate a stripped down Mustang V6 and I found one in Ohio, I live in Chicago. I wouldn't mind a real stripper without sound deadener, a basic cd player 4 speaker stereo, no wing, etc. maybe a kind of car that'd be perfect for a motor swap or build up, but if the 300 hp V6 is in it, then it'd be plenty for me (until I turbo it). I think GM should recognize the potential of a strip down Camaro and offer it or offer a V8 stripper, with the engine and suspension/ brakes of the V8 cars but no other extras. There are a lot of people who prefer to buy a car and modify it to their own taste, if the Camaro is offered at the right price point, it will be one of those vehicles.
Rumors have stated the V6 Camaro will be comparable to the V6 Mustang in price, and the BASE V8 will be comparable to the Base Mustang GT. by 2010, the Mustang will cost more, plus it is getting a facelift and a new engine. I can't find it anymore but I read a rumor that the Boss is coming out and will have a 390 hp Hurricane 5.4L V8, will be a stripped down version of the Shelby GT500, with a much lighter engine. That will be a hot car. If they switch to the 3.5L Duratec, the V6 can have 270 hp and be right on par with the 3.6L slotted for the Camaro unless they do use the DI and squeeze a few more ponies out of it by then. But they might switch to DI by then as well and be right there as well.
The new Malibu, the Saturns, the G8, the Solstice and whatever I am forgetting, show me that GM is thinking in the right direction. Now if I can just find someone to give me what I owe (or close to it) on my stupid dodge, I would trade for a Malibu today.
I do think all this speculation, wishing and hoping does get taken into account though. I do think they read this and see what we are thinking, and some of it has to get taken into account. We have some very smart people on here, and a lot of people have hoped for some of the things GM has more recently stated will happen. Either we think on the same level as some of the people they got working there, or it gets taken into account, or both.
I remember pricing out a 1999 Camaro Custom order with a Z28 and SS option and nothing else, it was I think a few bucks under 28k. Then I walked outside and saw a loaded up T-top RS (V6) for about 30k.
02-06-2008, 06:30 PM
#52
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And you know this because....
02-06-2008, 10:11 PM
#53
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Chevy is GM's Value leader is it not. The Impala, Malibu, Vette, Trucks all give you more for your money? They all might not be the cheapest in class but make up with it in other areas.
First off If you note Scotts post that have said all along that the Mustang will be the price point and they will work to set the prices near it. Note prices have not nore will not be set till next winter. Time will tell if they reach their goals.
Either way it has been stressed by GM that it is important to try to be competitive with the Mustang.
Second we are looking at features like IRS you can not get on a GT Mustang but available on the entry level Camaro.
Until Ford revamps it's engine line it GM will trump all their power plants.
The interior if you like the styling or not will be as good or better than the Malibu in quality as this is a new GM tradmark on their new cars. With that in mind the Malibu has a much better quality interior than the present Mustang.
Scott has made it clear that they did not invest in the 4th gen interior as well as they should have as most of the money went into the chassie. He pointed out this car will be be muich better in all areas. The present Mustang is not much better in many area's than the 4th gen Camaro.
The Camaro has had a long history of being just a little more in price but always delivered a better car than the Mustang ever really was.
If you don't believe that take a fuel tank out of a early Mustang and see that they cheaped out to the point that the tank also was the floor of the trunk too. That is why today Mustang restoration places offer a fire wall you can bolt in to keep the flames from getting you in a rear end crash. They also offer bolt in fuel cells to fix this same cheaped out problem.
The bottom line is while all the facts are not in yet many underestimate the people working on this car. They will meet and surpass most expectations with it. If the same division can deliver a ZR-1 and a Malibu that dealers can't get enough of you would think they will get the Camaro right too.
How often have we found people panic at the como car pictures only to see it was well done with the camo off. Or how the inteior improves as it is getting closer to being complete. Panic now on the drivetrain and price is a little short sighted. Give em a chance before anyone freaks out.
First off If you note Scotts post that have said all along that the Mustang will be the price point and they will work to set the prices near it. Note prices have not nore will not be set till next winter. Time will tell if they reach their goals.
Either way it has been stressed by GM that it is important to try to be competitive with the Mustang.
Second we are looking at features like IRS you can not get on a GT Mustang but available on the entry level Camaro.
Until Ford revamps it's engine line it GM will trump all their power plants.
The interior if you like the styling or not will be as good or better than the Malibu in quality as this is a new GM tradmark on their new cars. With that in mind the Malibu has a much better quality interior than the present Mustang.
Scott has made it clear that they did not invest in the 4th gen interior as well as they should have as most of the money went into the chassie. He pointed out this car will be be muich better in all areas. The present Mustang is not much better in many area's than the 4th gen Camaro.
The Camaro has had a long history of being just a little more in price but always delivered a better car than the Mustang ever really was.
If you don't believe that take a fuel tank out of a early Mustang and see that they cheaped out to the point that the tank also was the floor of the trunk too. That is why today Mustang restoration places offer a fire wall you can bolt in to keep the flames from getting you in a rear end crash. They also offer bolt in fuel cells to fix this same cheaped out problem.
The bottom line is while all the facts are not in yet many underestimate the people working on this car. They will meet and surpass most expectations with it. If the same division can deliver a ZR-1 and a Malibu that dealers can't get enough of you would think they will get the Camaro right too.
How often have we found people panic at the como car pictures only to see it was well done with the camo off. Or how the inteior improves as it is getting closer to being complete. Panic now on the drivetrain and price is a little short sighted. Give em a chance before anyone freaks out.
Last edited by hyperv6; 02-06-2008 at 10:13 PM.
02-07-2008, 08:37 AM
#54
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Hyper - until GM comes out with the car and it's price points, you cannot assume it will be a better value car than the Mustang. Having IRS and all is fine but the car must still come in at (I think) a cheaper price than the Mustang.
People go into a dealership and say "What will this car cost me every month?". If the Ford salesman says a number that is cheaper than what the Chevrolet salesman says, the buyer will have a Mustang in the driveway. That's just economics 101.
People go into a dealership and say "What will this car cost me every month?". If the Ford salesman says a number that is cheaper than what the Chevrolet salesman says, the buyer will have a Mustang in the driveway. That's just economics 101.
02-07-2008, 09:13 AM
#55
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IMO, the only Mustang guys that the F5 is gonna steal, are the ones sitting on the fence (not the faithful), the Camaro has outpaced the mustang in chassis since 1982 and power since (when did they put the 245hp 350 in the 3rd gen?), that was a long time to give Mustang guys a chance to "see the light".
02-07-2008, 09:48 AM
#57
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02-07-2008, 09:57 AM
#58
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02-07-2008, 10:19 AM
#59
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It's entirely possible. Add to that the fact that is' RWD. I'm sure these cars will end up in the hands of a lot of people that aren't used to the combination of both 300hp and RWD. At this point I'm actually considering a V6 instead of the V8 and that's something I told myself I would never do after my '94 V-6 camaro. Of course, you can't really compare the '94 to the '10 model.
02-07-2008, 10:29 AM
#60
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Ford sells a lot of the V6 Mustangs with the Rallye package. The cars look fast (even though they may not be) and get decent gas mileage. A hot looking and zippy V6 in the low 20's will sell to a lot of window shoppers.