650-700rwhp...who's there??

z28kid93 · 11-06-2002, 08:28 PM

So going through the calculations for what i want, it shows that i need 650rwhp in a 3000-3200lb car to get me where i want (140mph traps). I had planned on nitrous, but with the amount of passes/bottle running a 250 shot, and the cost of n2o(about 5.00/lb here in milwaukee) i'm looking into a s/c setup.

so what you guys running? boost? internals? heads/cam? anything you would have done differently to get to your goals?

Thanks for any help!!

Chris

'94 Camaro
9sec/140mph buildup in process....

89ProchargedROC · 11-06-2002, 09:17 PM

ya, i'd advise to look into a cheaper hobby that at least holds some of its value

z28kid93 · 11-06-2002, 09:43 PM

thanks Jimmy

but i like my hobby, even if it does cost me every penny of my income!

89ProchargedROC · 11-07-2002, 12:23 AM

ya, i like this hobby too but i'm tired of spending money

rskrause · 11-07-2002, 06:44 AM

It's easy: big blower (T or YS-trim Vortech, Procharger D1), intercooler/water injection, decent heads, cam, ignition upgrades, stout short block, fuel system, aftermarket ECM or extensive mods/programming to the stocker, driveline to stand up to the hp (12-bolt or 9", driveshaft, T56 mods or TH400), etc.

Bring about $20K, maybe more.

Good luck.

Rich Krause

89ProchargedROC · 11-07-2002, 09:52 AM

ya, that 20k figure is good....i'm getting close and i've been lucky enough to pick up really good deals along the way to boot

97TA-WS6-Con · 11-07-2002, 11:15 AM

I'm at about $28k but that includes some labour and some "mistakes".

AlexA · 11-07-2002, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 97TA-WS6-Con
I'm at about $28k but that includes some labour and some "mistakes".

What "mistakes" did you make?

Just trying to pick up some info before I get into this mess.

-Alex

97TA-WS6-Con · 11-07-2002, 12:52 PM

Where to begin

I started with 42 injectors. Not big enough. I got 55# ones. Whoops, Wrong "style", got 50#'s.

Motor I bought came with a new RPS Turbo clutch. It broke. - pucks came off - got another one. It slipped. Finally did what I should have done in the beginning and go a Mcleod. Clutch has been re&re four times now. Five if you include the fact I just pulled the motor on Sunday.

Had a rear main seal / rear oil pan leak. Did not address it for 15 months. Eventually caused the Macleod to get oil soaked. Needed a rebuild $300 plus shipping both ways.

Struggled with LT1 Edit for OBD2. Found the injectors went balistic. Apparantly OBD can only support about 36# injectors. went to OBD1. Finally decided to do what I should have done at the start and get a FAST. Now probably need 72# injectors.

Got a Walbro Intank 340W pump cause loosing fuel pressure. Cost money to get someone to change it. STILL not enough pump, going to a Racetronic Dual Intank.

Over filled the ATI blower - long story. Caused the seals to leak. Had to send it to ATI for rebuild. (Hopefully not to expensve)

Went through three belts trying to get the pulleys aligned - $75 each (In fact running on an 11 rib right now as it is).

There are lots of others but I will just embarass myself further.

Bottom line. I THOUGHT I had done all the research before starting ths project. Though I did not think I was taking the cheap route I certainly should have erred on the side of "spend more money to get it perfect the first time". I also had NO previous experience and no matter how much research, experience is everything. I also was too scared to do most of the work myself and I thus had a lot of labour cost even though many friends have helped me as well.

In hindsight, the motor and blower were a lot more powerful combination then I expected.

However, I have chosen to have the motor refreashed and a bunch of other things done to get it right once and for all and I have in fact taken the whole car apart myself over the last three weeks. the ENTIRE suspension, gas tank and the motor was pulled on Sunday with some help.

Of course I'm scared to death about putting it all back together. However, I will have the respect of my peers, the pride of having done it myself and a lower line of credit balance then otherwise)

Would I do this again? NO (ie I will not do this second time)
Do I regret doing it? Yes and No (see next questoin)
What would I do differently or what would I advise someone in MY situation to do if they asked?
Put it on a truck, send it to Agostino Racing with a blank cheque and a rwhp objective. Period.

AlexA · 11-07-2002, 05:05 PM

Nice post. I'd like to comment...and maybe ask some questions.

Quote:

I started with 42 injectors. Not big enough. I got 55# ones. Whoops, Wrong "style", got 50#'s.

Did you have idling issues with the 50# injectors? I hear they don't idle well because they are right on the limit for high Z injectors. I was thinking 70ish lb low Z injectors with the Acceleronics impedance converter (good 'ole LJ).

Quote:

Struggled with LT1 Edit for OBD2. Found the injectors went balistic. Apparantly OBD can only support about 36# injectors. went to OBD1. Finally decided to do what I should have done at the start and get a FAST. Now probably need 72# injectors.

Thankfully, I am OBD1. I have no intention of going to FAST.

Quote:

Got a Walbro Intank 340W pump cause loosing fuel pressure. Cost money to get someone to change it. STILL not enough pump, going to a Racetronic Dual Intank.

Do you mean 340M? How much power were you able to make with it?

I was going to do the single pump Racetronix setup and keep power under 550rwhp. If I'm near the limit of my fuel system, I'd try to use some sort of voltage booster to give me the edge (PNP if I use Racetronix's kit). When the time comes to go over that, I'd just upgrade the whole thing.

Quote:

Over filled the ATI blower - long story. Caused the seals to leak. Had to send it to ATI for rebuild. (Hopefully not to expensve)

Whoops...ATI told me 6 oz - no less, no more. She also told me a rebuild is $75...hopefully it applies in your case.

Quote:

Went through three belts trying to get the pulleys aligned - $75 each (In fact running on an 11 rib right now as it is).

Did you consider SD Concepts tensioner? I've heard some good things about it here. Or was this a pulley alignment issue on the HB?

Quote:

There are lots of others but I will just embarass myself further.

Email me privately if you get a chance.

aa4d@erols.com

Quote:

What would I do differently or what would I advise someone in MY situation to do if they asked?
Put it on a truck, send it to Agostino Racing with a blank cheque and a rwhp objective. Period.

NO WAY would I give my car to ARE.

If I just wanted to give up and pay the BIG bucks, I'd just give it to Mike at MORE.

-Alex

z28kid93 · 11-07-2002, 05:50 PM

thanks guys for your thoughts. i know this is gonna be expensive. but that's what it has to be to be done right and to accomplish your goals. any others have thoughts on specifics for parts?

Chris

aram · 11-07-2002, 06:15 PM

Buy a rolling chassis and drop a motor/tranny in it.. it will make your life a lot easier.

z28kid93 · 11-07-2002, 06:29 PM

hehehe

'94 V6 camaro w/ perfect body and frame, never in an accident

$1000

that's what i got. working on the suspension/cage/interior/fuel system now

rskrause · 11-07-2002, 07:35 PM

Yep, $20K is a minimum. I never said I spent "only" $20K, I wish that was all I spent

. I made the clutch mistake, went with too high a CR on my original build, had the wrong cam, etc.

I have never added up the total I have spent so far, likely would cause me to faint

. But it's been a lot of fun, I have learned a lot, and gotten a lot of enjoyment out of the car. It was fun to look at the latest Road & Track magazine and see that my is much faster (at least in a straight line) than a McLaren F1, Ferrari F40, or Porsche 959 and didn't cost more than a small fraction of any of these cars.

Rich Krause

LWM · 11-07-2002, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rskrause
Yep, $20K is a minimum. I never said I spent "only" $20K, I wish that was all I spent . I made the clutch mistake, went with too high a CR on my original build, had the wrong cam, etc.

I have never added up the total I have spent so far, likely would cause me to faint . But it's been a lot of fun, I have learned a lot, and gotten a lot of enjoyment out of the car. It was fun to look at the latest Road & Track magazine and see that my is much faster (at least in a straight line) than a McLaren F1, Ferrari F40, or Porsche 959 and didn't cost more than a small fraction of any of these cars.

Rich Krause

I've seen your post in the Autocross section. I think it is possible to get very close to the big $$ cars in the corners with the right modifications ... let the hunt continue

And FWIW, I'm into mine for around $15k, but then again, I'm still on the stock internals ...

To get to the big HP # all the reading I've done has led me to ...
-Forged rotating assembly 3.75" stroke
-9:1 Forged Blower pistons
-T-trim
-Aftercooler
-LT-1 editor and 42 - 50# injectors with either a Super Fueler or a crude FMU to cover up the top end fueling.
-220/230 type camshaft
-AFR 195cc heads
-4 bolt splayed caps ... essential

everything but the cam shaft is now lying on the ground ... fortunately it's winter now ... unfortunately ... it will be spring before the credit card is back under control ...

If anyone sees anything I'm missing ... chime in ... sure would hate to smoke a $8K engine ...

LWM