Quote from Bob Lutz In Autoweek

This quote was from the second day of the NAIAS for the press.

Here it is in black and white...

"Lutz was later asked if there was any hope of ressurecting the Camaro and Firebird. "Maybe after a 30-year nap," he said. We assume he meant for the car."

HAHAHAHA:rolleyes: :mad:

I will guarantee you all here that I am as big of a GM fan as anyone, but if the guy wants to say things like that, then he has a lot to learn...

That quote was like a slap in the face.

Unless he is planning on pulling a rabbit out of his hat.
:think:

once again i hate GM and Bob Lutz:mad: :mad:

See the 2033 Camaro thread. Sarcasm me thinks. Me hopes.

.....this sounds like a guy who got his hand spanked for his earlier comments........and he REALLY wants you to ask about the new cars he can talk about..........haven't you said something off the cuff to divert attention away from a subject that could get you canned? :confused: ;)

There ain't no way in H E L L that it'll be even 10 years, but more like less than 5..........;) :D

Ya'll need to relax a little...........:cool:

Originally posted by Doug Harden
.....this sounds like a guy who got his hand spanked for his earlier comments........and he REALLY wants you to ask about the new cars he can talk about..........haven't you said something off the cuff to divert attention away from a subject that could get you canned? :confused: ;)

There ain't no way in H E L L that it'll be even 10 years, but more like less than 5..........;) :D

Ya'll need to relax a little...........:cool:




Bob Lutz get canned? Huh?

He's arguably one of the best things that has happened to GM in a good while. I don't see them getting rid of him for a while...


Regardless, it was a ignorant thing to say, and he needs to engage his brain before he opens his mouth.:mad:

As I stated in the above thread, I think Lutz used poor terminology.I am convinced that Camaro will be back, and soon.

As someone else mentioned, it is kind of a slap in the face for him to say things like that....
"After a 30 yr nap"......Ha Ha That's really funny. :rolleyes:
It truly bothers me that a person in his position would downplay the importance of the Camaro and Firebird.These cars meant so much to so many and have a cult like following...
So yeah, after a 30 yr nap....Ha Friggin Ha :mad:

Okay, trying to calm down....
I'm sure it's all a smoke and mirrors.It still pi$$es me off though.

You know, some of you here are getting really sensitive (thought I was bad).

I think there's a full moon out tonight. ;)

Or, instead of giving us the same old BS line we get from everyone else, he plays it off as if he's not even thinking about it, everyone will dismiss the Fbody and when it DOES come back in 2005+ you'll have even more shock. . .
Lutz if anyone is the guy telling people they'll be canned if they talk, he can't set a double standard for himself and expect everyone else not to do the same. And come on, he brought the GTO over and has planned more RWD cars then i've seen from GM in a long time, we've got grand ams & GPs getting V8s & rwd (grand am anyway) I wonder how lon ghte CTS & XLR have been on the board, but i'm sure Lutz helped those cars along as well.
He's the first guy to take a serious look at GM's Australian division for new sedans, obviously the malibu and regal/bon/etc arent cutting it like they used to.

He probably realizes that there is no pressing need for a Camaro economically speaking.

Sarcasm. They guy CAN NOT talk about the cars right now!!

While Lutz's comment doesn't really bother me, I do think he could have been a bit more considerate...

He's probably tired of being asked about something he can't comment on, and just snapped off or thought it was funny, even though it could have been taken as a kick to the groin... :eek:

Has anyone noticed that Lutz gets asked about the Camaro often?

Do you think that he gets the hint that alot of people are very interested in it?

I'd bet NO ONE has ever asked him about the new Tahoe.

Guess you have to look at it as a comparison...

If they discontinued the Tahoe, how many people would really care?

And of the 5-6 people that would actually be upset about it how many would be begging GM to bring it back?

If they don't destroy the image of the car and bring it back in 2-3 years think of how well it will sell. Many of us took our F-Bodies for granted, and because of the sales slowed... we'd get a new one, but for now our current ones were okay... now they're gone, we miss them already (only a few months into the 2003 model line)... I'm just hoping they don't go with the new fad of redesigning the car drastically and doing limited, overpriced production for the first few years of it's "rebirth".

I'd bet NO ONE has ever asked him about the new Tahoe.

:D

I think Bob Lutz drives a mustang.

Originally posted by 96 TA
I think Bob Lutz drives a mustang.

I think you're right!

Originally posted by Z284ever
Has anyone noticed that Lutz gets asked about the Camaro often?

Do you think that he gets the hint that alot of people are very interested in it?

I'd bet NO ONE has ever asked him about the new Tahoe.

HAHA, yeah no kidding. I couldn't imagine any reporter asking him "OK, now for the big question that everybody wants asked, how about that new MALIBU!?"

You guys are ignoring the facts and relying on hope. The camaro isn't coming back. I suggest you find another car to like or shift your focus from the future to the used f-bodies.

Just my opinion of course... but everyone is entitled to my opinion ;)

Originally posted by WishIHadAZ
You guys are ignoring the facts and relying on hope.

The only "facts" we know is that the Camaro isn't going to be built for 2003. Now obviously it will be longer than that without one but if you want to boil it down to facts that's about the only one we know for certain. :)

I drive a ford so I know I am going to get flamed for this.

First off, I would love to see a new f-bod out soon.

Second is, I do not like to be lied too. I do not care how many times he gets asked that question, he should just say I can't discuss that. Not lie straight forward and say after a 30 yr nap or whatever lutz said.

Originally posted by Sax1031
I do not like to be lied too. I do not care how many times he gets asked that question, he should just say I can't discuss that. Not lie straight forward and say after a 30 yr nap or whatever lutz said.

I agree. I don't think it may be far from the truth if he is saying something like that. It's not like a CEO of a large corporation to out and out lie to the public just to cover up a concept vehicle. I think they are more likely to blurr and distort the facts or like you said - just have no comment on it at all.

To say something like that though...........
I think it's the truth.
Don't wait for the new Camaro, guys - you heard it straight from the horse's mouth this time - there will be no new Camaro.
Get over it, and buy a Corvette or GTO.

Can somebody wake me after my "30 year nap". I'll be ready to buy a GM product by then.

PS

Anyone want to buy a whole bunch of GM card points?

Originally posted by phantasm99


As someone else mentioned, it is kind of a slap in the face for him to say things like that....
"After a 30 yr nap"......Ha Ha That's really funny. :rolleyes:
It truly bothers me that a person in his position would downplay the importance of the Camaro and Firebird.These cars meant so much to so many and have a cult like following...
So yeah, after a 30 yr nap....Ha Friggin Ha :mad:




HAAA haa haha at GMS MARKET SHARE hah ahha

A$$ HOLE

why are you guys saying its :rolleyes: not true it came right out of the BOSS at GM .He wants to crack jokes I'll laugh at gms market share and our loyalties

Originally posted by Z284ever
Can somebody wake me after my "30 year nap". I'll be ready to buy a GM product by then.

PS

Anyone want to buy a whole bunch of GM card points?

Hey, I got about $2,000 worth...think we can auction them off on Ebay? I saw one of their commercials the other day and I thought about it....What am I charging towards??

Originally posted by WERM
Hey, I got about $2,000 worth...think we can auction them off on Ebay? I saw one of their commercials the other day and I thought about it....What am I charging towards?? I've probably got about $1,700 worth.

I'd take 50cents on the dollar for them right now.

Originally posted by WishIHadAZ
You guys are ignoring the facts and relying on hope. The camaro isn't coming back. I suggest you find another car to like or shift your focus from the future to the used f-bodies.

Just my opinion of course... but everyone is entitled to my opinion ;)

Now I think you need to examine your statement and take your own words... if you read the first quote Lutz says that it WILL come back... in about 30 years:D ... no seriously I think that it is going to come back, unless they are hiding some sweet ass muscle car to fill that gap within that price range to replace the camaro.

I live my entire life for one purpose: R-E-V-E-N-G-E!!!!


One day...........................................:D

......hook me up w/ a link to the whole article? I'd like to read it in the context it was written. TIA!

I'll see what Scott has to say.............Lucy got some splainin' to do.......:think:

If there's 1 thing I can say about B.L., its that I am incredibly unimpressed with him. I hope that can change though.

Originally posted by IZ28
If there's 1 thing I can say about B.L., its that I am incredibly unimpressed with him. I hope that can change though.

Would you have rather had Zarella? :eek:

I find it hard to believe everyone got peeved over what was obviously an off the cuff joke. If anyone actually believes that he has no intention of bringing Camaro back for another 30 years, I suggest you look up the best shrink in your neighborhood, and make an apointment straightaway before someone tells you the truth about Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. You are taking this way, way too seriously.

The design department is no longer rulled by focus groups, and has more pull than they have had in years (or lifetimes for some of us). Brand management (minus chrome bars, and split grilles) is dead and buried. RWD is comming back to a number of products. GM is investing money in cars again instead of just SUVs & Trucks. In 24-36 Months, GM will be making rear drive performance cars here in North America. Products that naysayers said couldn't be brought here from another country because it didn't offer SUV-like profit margins are on their way. And, it's becoming a fact that Camaro will be back....and we most certainly aren't talking 30 years down the road.

Where's the problem??? :confused:

Cars that developed entirely on Lutz's watch wont be out till 2005 at the earliest. He could have sat on his hands till then. But in all honesty, those of you who are on his case now because you don't like GTO, or SC FWD Impala's or Monte Carlos, or some of his other measures to hold down the Fort till the good stuff arrives, would you have been more forgiving?

It takes at least 4 years to develop a car from scratch, and he's been on the job only 16 months!

Looking at LS6 CTSs, GXP Bonnevilles, and the forementioned upcomming stopgap cars, I think there would be a bit more praising here because he simply didn't wait till his cars came out, and took the effort to take the hand he was delt, and turn them into something a whole lot better. We may not like them, but at least he made the effort. When was the last time someone in his position at GM did that? My guess, the mid 1960s.

You simply WON"T see the cars you want till at the earliest 2005 probally as 2006s. Not because someone doesn't care about enthusiast, or is giving someone the big blow off, but because it actually takes that long to make a car.

It may take 18 months after the go ahead is given, but before the meeting that gives that go-ahead, the design, engineering, planning, manufacturing layout, and all the other stuff adds on alot of time. There are things that are actually being rushed towards production, and they won't be out till at the earliest 2005/06.

As for a Camaro, it has someone high making it a top priority, so I for one am no longer worried about Camaro comming back. Alot of people in GM (including Chevrolet) are now being heard who wern't before.

Some people really need to calm down. It was a joke. A lame one, but still a joke. :rolleyes:

I get you Guion.

I just hope when his stuff comes out and not these little improvements of what he has to work with I can be impressed with them. But I still don't like some of his decisions. So far.

Originally posted by guionM
Some people really need to calm down. It was a joke. A lame one, but still a joke. :rolleyes:

You would think Czar Bob Lutz would be more apt at watching his mouth. Straight talk and digging yourself into a rut are two entirely different things.

Originally posted by cmc
You would think Czar Bob Lutz would be more apt at watching his mouth. Straight talk and digging yourself into a rut are two entirely different things.

That's nothing. Ever hear of John Coletti?

Originally posted by guionM
That's nothing. Ever hear of John Coletti?

He's a Ford guy. :D

Originally posted by guionM

As for a Camaro, it has someone high making it a top priority,

How high?

Originally posted by guionM

I find it hard to believe everyone got peeved over what was obviously an off the cuff joke. If anyone actually believes that he has no intention of bringing Camaro back for another 30 years, I suggest you look up the best shrink in your neighborhood, and make an apointment straightaway before someone tells you the truth about Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. You are taking this way, way too seriously.

Some people really need to calm down. It was a joke. A lame one, but still a joke. :rolleyes:

It was a pretty bad joke because so many are begging for GM to say just "Yes, we are working on a Camaro. " Instead, we get Mr. Lutz cracking jokes about leaving its biggest fans hanging.

Slide over to Ford. Everyone has known the Mustang was in the works for years. "Concepts" were just shown. Ford spent a lot of time interacting with owners and enthusiasts (even going to sites like this) to determine what people wanted. I've never seen anything like it. They've also said that they will be making many special versions like Mach1 and Bullitt. Why is it so hard to find this type of enthusiasm in GM? Instead we get Bob Lutz cracking jokes, a bunch of FWD V6 and SUV "SS" models, 35k performance cars and people saying "Trust Us".

Nicely said.

If you toss out the 30=year comment from Lutz, which, I agree, could be taken as a jab... I think he is doing everything he can.

Like Guion said, at least he is piecing some better performance versions of existing cars together, while he gets the cars he is able to influence from the ground up, ready to go....

Originally posted by WERM
It was a pretty bad joke because so many are begging for GM to say just "Yes, we are working on a Camaro. " Instead, we get Mr. Lutz cracking jokes about leaving its biggest fans hanging.

Slide over to Ford. Everyone has known the Mustang was in the works for years. "Concepts" were just shown. Ford spent a lot of time interacting with owners and enthusiasts (even going to sites like this) to determine what people wanted. I've never seen anything like it. They've also said that they will be making many special versions like Mach1 and Bullitt. Why is it so hard to find this type of enthusiasm in GM? Instead we get Bob Lutz cracking jokes, a bunch of FWD V6 and SUV "SS" models, 35k performance cars and people saying "Trust Us".

Well said.

And on another note, why is it that GM feels that it has to maximize the profit on every car? Can't they be happy that the Camaro, before they yanked it, was still making them money?

It was a pretty bad joke because so many are begging for GM to say just "Yes, we are working on a Camaro. " Instead, we get Mr. Lutz cracking jokes about leaving its biggest fans hanging.

If GM showed half the enthusiasm for Camaro as Ford does for Mustang....:mad:

Originally posted by phantasm99
If GM showed half the enthusiasm for Camaro as Ford does for Mustang....:mad:

This I agree with... I never understood why Chevy couldn't find a way to support the Camaro liek Ford does the Mustang, Corvette or no Corvette... they are two different cars, in two different markets.

Just a hunch, since there's an execution order on anyone who talks about a new Camaro, perhaps these press people should ask about a new rear drive Chevrolet coupe instead of asking about a new Camaro. ;)

Originally posted by guionM
Just a hunch, since there's an execution order on anyone who talks about a new Camaro, perhaps these press people should ask about a new rear drive Chevrolet coupe instead of asking about a new Camaro. ;)

Very nice idea:D
the problem about the "joke" that lutz said is..
Many of us feel sad, angry, and felt that Gm let us down, we are still waiting for a response of GM about the Camaro future and then he said that:rolleyes:

I don't understand why I keep reading about GM telling employees to not talk about the new camaro, how there is a gag order. There is no such thing. They talk about it and how it is not going to happen... Get real...

Originally posted by guionM

The design department is no longer ruled by focus groups, and has more pull than they have had in years (or lifetimes for some of us).
Not picking on you in particular guionM - cause we generally see things pretty commonly - but was this supposed to make me feel BETTER? Focus groups are no longer getting priority in their wants, feedback, or comments? "Focus groups" as a whole DICTATE the path of the Mustang now, and have for well over a decade - I think that the buying public actually seeing what it wants get made has a great deal to do with the car's success. IMO, the design team should simply facilitate the design based on the public's criterium. I do not think corporate admin should give the designers full-reign to dictate to the public "what they can have", especially when it is based solely on "$-to-produce" or "profit margin" - because people may not buy it, ergo F4.


It takes at least 4 years to develop a car from scratch, and he's been on the job only 16 months!

You are exactly right. I agree with you regarding Lutz. I think he is doing all that he can to get GM moving back into the performance car market, and he is having to live with the delayed consequences of actions initiated by his predecessor.

HOWEVER - loose-lipped comments about a 30-year-nap will fall harshly on the ears of die-hard enthusuasts that feel like they've just lost a friend. If he was a true Camaro-lover, I think he would have that feeling too, and been less likely to smack on it like that. I don't even own a Camaro, but even I felt a little dejected by that comment, joke or not. The Camaro was a very important member of the ponycar family, and I beleive it deserves respect... dead or alive... and those who love them deserve to be treated with respect as well. So while I will defend Lutz on his inheritance of some lame projects, I will not defend him at all over thoughtless comments made about legendary cars that have so many people so emotional right now. That was just wrong. Can you see Bill Ford doing something like that right after his commercials about "loving" the Mustang?

Another point regarding loose-lipped, half-joking, comments made at press conferences or interviews...
Can anybody say "Trent Lott"? :eek: :rolleyes:
A significant quality that enables one to lead a LARGE group successfully is knowing how NOT to offend or alienate your followers, and knowing when to clam-up.


You simply WON"T see the cars you want till at the earliest 2005 probally as 2006s. Not because someone doesn't care about enthusiast, or is giving someone the big blow off, but because it actually takes that long to make a car.

It may take 18 months after the go ahead is given, but before the meeting that gives that go-ahead, the design, engineering, planning, manufacturing layout, and all the other stuff adds on alot of time. There are things that are actually being rushed towards production, and they won't be out till at the earliest 2005/06.
Only one thought here...
Do you think Nissan, Dodge, Ford, and others are just going to sit still during this same time period? My bias aside, I think GM has really dropped the ball under Zarella's watch, and lost a lot of ground in the performance and styling markets - Chevy in particular. Couple that with the new attitude of a young Bill Ford and John Coletti's race history and aggressive approach to performance, Dodge's new committments to the Hemi and performance lately, all of the import rocketships with their "high quality" reputations, and it's gonna be a challenge for GM to just "jump back up to speed". These other companies are ON A TEAR right now! I'm not saying GM can't do it - hardly. In fact, I'm sure they can because they have done it before. BUT, it's not gonna be as easy as it was back in the '60s - now we've got Japanese, German, European, Australian, and even Korean companies to compete with, not just the big-3. Getting GM back to the top of the performance pile will take LOTS of hard work, and I personally don't see it happening solely with Lutz' first lineup of "his" vehicles in 18 months or so. But GIVEN - he is on the right track, far moreso than Zarella.

AND THE DETAIL OF THE DAY IS...
Nobody has cued in on the fact that the "30-year-nap" was an intentional jab...
GTO last produced = 1974
GTO reintroduced = 2004
---------------------------------
30-year-nap.................30

MY OPINION - Lutz was trying to divert that conversation to mention GTO's rebirth and throw a sales pitch for GTO. He may want a Camaro back, for $ or loyalty or both, but I think he is more of a GTO guy than a Camaro guy. Camaro will be a significant card for him to play in a few years after GTO and Chevelle(?) newness wears off. IMO, Camaro is now one of Lutz' "Aces up the sleeve" to play when the game gets tough. Any good poker player will tell you, you don't play your best card until you have to.

Again, not singling out your post for scrutiny guionM - but you write so clearly and cover the bases well enough to bring out details that others may miss. That makes for great material to build on...
Please take my comments as "debate material from another POV", and not as a personal attack or rebuttal, because I really do agree with more of your post than I disagree with. It's just dull and moot to point out what's already been covered. Thanks!

Originally posted by ProudPony
Not picking on you in particular guionM - cause we generally see things pretty commonly - but was this supposed to make me feel BETTER? Focus groups are no longer getting priority in their wants, feedback, or comments? "Focus groups" as a whole DICTATE the path of the Mustang now, and have for well over a decade - I think that the buying public actually seeing what it wants get made has a great deal to do with the car's success. IMO, the design team should simply facilitate the design based on the public's criterium. I do not think corporate admin should give the designers full-reign to dictate to the public "what they can have", especially when it is based solely on "$-to-produce" or "profit margin" - because people may not buy it, ergo F4.



I see your point, and I do agree... :)

But keep in mind, GM has gone waaaaay overboard in the direction of focus groups, too... and the result was Pontiac Aztek! :eek:


So, maybe a happy balance is in order ... ;)

Originally posted by ProudPony

AND THE DETAIL OF THE DAY IS...
Nobody has cued in on the fact that the "30-year-nap" was an intentional jab...
GTO last produced = 1974
GTO reintroduced = 2004
---------------------------------
30-year-nap.................30

MY OPINION - Lutz was trying to divert that conversation to mention GTO's rebirth and throw a sales pitch for GTO. He may want a Camaro back, for $ or loyalty or both, but I think he is more of a GTO guy than a Camaro guy. Camaro will be a significant card for him to play in a few years after GTO and Chevelle(?) newness wears off. IMO, Camaro is now one of Lutz' "Aces up the sleeve" to play when the game gets tough. Any good poker player will tell you, you don't play your best card until you have to.



Good Point.

Originally posted by WERM
It was a pretty bad joke because so many are begging for GM to say just "Yes, we are working on a Camaro. " Instead, we get Mr. Lutz cracking jokes about leaving its biggest fans hanging.

Slide over to Ford. Everyone has known the Mustang was in the works for years. "Concepts" were just shown. Ford spent a lot of time interacting with owners and enthusiasts (even going to sites like this) to determine what people wanted. I've never seen anything like it. They've also said that they will be making many special versions like Mach1 and Bullitt. Why is it so hard to find this type of enthusiasm in GM? Instead we get Bob Lutz cracking jokes, a bunch of FWD V6 and SUV "SS" models, 35k performance cars and people saying "Trust Us".

Well said. GM - please listen to these guys! I have seen it first hand too.

For those of you who really care enough to see some of what WERM is talking about, simply go to a Ford dealer and just pick up a copy of the Mustang sales brochure, take it home, and read the inside of the back cover.

Ford - the company - advertises for car clubs and events! They point you towards Mustang clubs (local - in your area no less!), national clubs like MCA, NMRA, and others. They have the logo and some comments about "Fun Ford Weekend" events that they sponsor all across the nation. They direct you to THIS WEBSITE (http://www.fordheritage.com/mustang/) where they acknowledge the car's heritage, tout it's history, and have links to aftermarket parts companies, tuners, etc.
AND ALL OF THIS is advertised in their SALES BROCHURE by Ford!
Nevermind that Ford advertises the car itself, they also advertise and support the groups that surround the car. That's an example of their committment to the car AND it's followers. To me, they learned 14 years ago that there is more to the craze than "just the car".

I won't even go into the survey cards you get when you buy a new Mustang. The efforts that Team Mustang makes to get feeback from 70+ y/o grandmas to 15-y/o boys is phenomenal.
And if you buy from SVT, all sorts of goodies and special perks get thrown in from custom leather jackets to special treatment while servicing, to invitations for track time at major speedway events - in your car.

Oh, and there are also embellishing words in the various owner's manuals about thanking you for your loyalty, appreciating your business and encouraging your feedback, and wanting you to be a "Mustang owner" for life... :rolleyes: What a concept... loyalty.

I'm the first to admit that there are "lemon" Mustangs just like any other car, but you sure can't blame Ford for not trying or not supporting their ponycar buyers for the last decade or so. Like WERM, I've never seen anything like it. I imagine they could improve their bottom line substantially on the model if they cut-out some of the hoopla and support $ for events, but I really think they are viewing it as a long-term (infinite?) realtionship and are managing it for that goal, not just green-dollars today.

For the first time in 19 years of Mustang ownership, I REALLY don't have a major beef with anything they are doing. I've been down on the power thing for the last 8 years :D , but now with no F-bod and the new Cobra - I can't even gripe about that anymore.

Originally posted by Darth Xed
I see your point, and I do agree... :)

But keep in mind, GM has gone waaaaay overboard in the direction of focus groups, too... and the result was Pontiac Aztek! :eek:


So, maybe a happy balance is in order ... ;)

UGH... I just got :Owned:
OK - valid point!!! :D You win - no contest there. LOL!

Maybe GM's mistake with the focus groups was in their demographics? Were they asking loyal Camaro owners what THEY wanted, or were they asking housewives with 3 kids at a grocery store what THEY wanted in a Camaro? I can't answer this.

So an accurate and honest body of people need to be identified for valid feedback - but the interested PEOPLE should still get what they want to buy - agreed?

Originally posted by ProudPony
UGH... I just got :Owned:
Maybe GM's mistake with the focus groups was in their demographics? Were they asking loyal Camaro owners what THEY wanted, or were they asking housewives with 3 kids at a grocery store what THEY wanted in a Camaro? I can't answer this.

So an accurate and honest body of people need to be identified for valid feedback - but the interested PEOPLE should still get what they want to buy - agreed?

HMMMMMMMM?????? Something to think about!

Originally posted by ProudPony
UGH... I just got :Owned:
OK - valid point!!! :D You win - no contest there. LOL!

Maybe GM's mistake with the focus groups was in their demographics? Were they asking loyal Camaro owners what THEY wanted, or were they asking housewives with 3 kids at a grocery store what THEY wanted in a Camaro? I can't answer this.

So an accurate and honest body of people need to be identified for valid feedback - but the interested PEOPLE should still get what they want to buy - agreed?

I would agree.

The scary thing, though, is that from what I understand, Aztek was pretty much a result of focus groups based on the age range that it was targeted for... :o


But, then again, Aztek is just one example of what can happen...

The VERY few times anyone from GM asked my opinion on Camaros.....they were never interested in my views on performance aspects, styling or heritage.

What they were interested in is (get this!)........How many passengers I wanted to carry?:confused: ...And how many sheets of plaster board Camaro could fit in the hatch?:confused:

Originally posted by Darth Xed
The scary thing, though, is that from what I understand, Aztek was pretty much a result of focus groups based on the age range that it was targeted for... :o

So maybe all 45,000 people that they asked, and said they like the design, now own one??? :confused:

There must be some major lesson to be learned in that debacle...
I would really love to know the demographic breakdown of the groups that responded to Aztek... age, race, financial staus, job, etc.

There are also usually questions with "hidden meanings" designed into "focus group" responses that are geared to determine the persons sincerity, honesty, and likelihood of actually buying based on their responses to the same question asked several different ways. Poor qualifiers often have their responses weighted less heavily - essentially giving their responses and desires less "clout" in the overall feedback.

I'd also like to know if the Aztek was released in similar form with what the focus groups (apparently) gave overwhelming approval to when studied... sometimes the last-minute changes get slipped in ya know?

I CERTAINLY hope that GM learned from whatever went wrong in that fiasco and that it doesn't get repeated with a new Chevelle or Camaro offering... especially the Camaro.

Originally posted by Z284ever
The VERY few times anyone from GM asked my opinion on Camaros.....they were never interested in my views on performance aspects, styling or heritage.

What they were interested in is (get this!)........How many passengers I wanted to carry?:confused: ...And how many sheets of plaster board Camaro could fit in the hatch?:confused:
Z284ever,
Are you serious?
WHO asked you this?!?! Not by name, but company, club, position, or authority?

Are you kidding me with this?

Lutz is about the BEST thing that GM has seen in 10 years. Except the c5 vette...

Yes the 30 year comment. But think of the focus groups this way. Lutz cares about RWD and about performance. When he came into GM, didnt he look at the 50th anniv C6 vette and immediatly scrap it because he didnt like it? I think with that in mind, with no focus groups, the people there get to have a little more freedom. I think focus groups are great, but you get a lot of input from a larger demographic, and trying to be a jack of all trades will make you a master of none. It's a hard war to win, and yes, Ford has succeeded marvelously with the mustang, aside from shooting itself in the foot with cobra problems, playing so much into loyalty and enthusiasts is a great thing. The car is a jack of all trades, good styling, good comfort, good interior, good ride, good power, good milage. It exceeds at nothing, but when most people take a look at a new GT, it has enough of what they want in everything. Like the z28 camaros, Styling was good, ride wasnt good, but power and handling was great! A lot were turned off because the ride was so harsh.

When lutz brings back some "rwd performance coupe" for GM, it will be the ace up his sleeve. The vette will always hold it's own, but Mustang Competition is strong, as well as import. But I think when the new camaro comes out, it will be a force to be reckoned with. And if Lutz and others get their way, I think it'll come flashing in under a HUGE edge of media and performance options. The 4th gens started getting some SLP mods from the factory. The Cavalier now can get a supercharger kit. Look at how GM has gotten better in the past 2 years. I think it's only going to get better.

Like a supercharged 6L c6 vette!:D

Originally posted by ProudPony
Ford- the company - advertises for car clubs and events! They point you towards Mustang clubs (local - in your area no less!), national clubs like MCA, NMRA, and others. They have the logo and some comments about "Fun Ford Weekend" events that they sponsor all across the nation. They direct you to THIS WEBSITE (http://www.fordheritage.com/mustang/) where they acknowledge the car's heritage, tout it's history, and have links to aftermarket parts companies, tuners, etc.

FWIW when Camaros were still in showrooms the brochures also mentioned Camaro clubs, and the Camaro section of the Chevy website has a directory of clubs in one's area. Sure it wasn't as much as what Ford does but remember that Camaro and Firebird weren't the halo cars at GM like Mustang is at Ford.

I'm happy to see that such events as Camaro Superfest and SLP's Camaro and Firebird day are still going strong for 2003.

Originally posted by ProudPony
Z284ever,
Are you serious?
WHO asked you this?!?! Not by name, but company, club, position, or authority?

Are you kidding me with this?

Not kidding at all! No name dropping though...remember, I'm from Chicago.."I don't know nothin' about no bodddy".

But to be serious ...he/she is someone I have a TON of respect for. It just goes to show that if an absolute gearhead like that feels inclined to query an enthusiast about those sorts of issues regarding the Camaro....something was not right at GM's corporate culture.

Originally posted by WishIHadAZ
I don't understand why I keep reading about GM telling employees to not talk about the new camaro, how there is a gag order. There is no such thing. They talk about it and how it is not going to happen... Get real...

Actually, there is such a thing.

As everyone here who has personally spoken with anyone in GM will tell you, GM can give no indication they are working on a replacement for the Camaro or Firebird, and are refraining from using the name on anything, including concept cars despite the fact that GM does own the name.

The "gag order" covers not just the future of the name (at the moment) but it also covers any public discussion as to why the 4th gen was discontinued outside of the official line of 'low sales".

They are permitted to say the name (notice, they always refer to the "name") will eventually come back, but no one is saying they are working on a new "Camaro". Anyone who asks about a new Camaro will get that "eventually" line.

If anyone has told you how it's not going to happen, I really, really doubt they actually work for GM.

No, I'm not making this up. Yes, I am being real. :)

Originally posted by 96 TA
I think Bob Lutz drives a mustang.

Ferrari.

If the big 2 really wanted to fix things, they'd require everyone employed by the company to drive a company product. Over at Ford, that cold be an Aston Martin, but I still think this policy would help get us better cars.

Who really cares? I'm sure there will be plenty of other manufactures out there with cars that I'd be interested in buying the next time I'm in the market. I'm not a slave to F-bodies or any particular manufacturer.

That new Mustang coupe is looking REALLY good.....

Besides, does anybody think that Lutz will still be above ground in 3 years, let alone 30?

Originally posted by guionM
Actually, there is such a thing.

As everyone here who has personally spoken with anyone in GM will tell you, GM can give no indication they are working on a replacement for the Camaro or Firebird, and are refraining from using the name on anything, including concept cars despite the fact that GM does own the name.

The "gag order" covers not just the future of the name (at the moment) but it also covers any public discussion as to why the 4th gen was discontinued outside of the official line of 'low sales".

They are permitted to say the name (notice, they always refer to the "name") will eventually come back, but no one is saying they are working on a new "Camaro". Anyone who asks about a new Camaro will get that "eventually" line.

If anyone has told you how it's not going to happen, I really, really doubt they actually work for GM.

No, I'm not making this up. Yes, I am being real. :)

Yes, but the only reason that they can't tell you there will be no Camaro is the same reason they can't tell you there will be. A firm answer in either direction will affect the bottom line, and we stockholders, armed with this insider knowledge can get in some nasty trouble with the SEC doing this.

I really believe we will only know when GM releases official information about it. Don't expect somebody to come on this board (certain celestial objects we know, for example), especially in a high position, and leak the official word on the Camaro, or any other future product.

Originally posted by guionM
Actually, there is such a thing.

As everyone here who has personally spoken with anyone in GM will tell you, GM can give no indication they are working on a replacement for the Camaro or Firebird, and are refraining from using the name on anything, including concept cars despite the fact that GM does own the name.

The "gag order" covers not just the future of the name (at the moment) but it also covers any public discussion as to why the 4th gen was discontinued outside of the official line of 'low sales".

They are permitted to say the name (notice, they always refer to the "name") will eventually come back, but no one is saying they are working on a new "Camaro". Anyone who asks about a new Camaro will get that "eventually" line.

If anyone has told you how it's not going to happen, I really, really doubt they actually work for GM.

No, I'm not making this up. Yes, I am being real. :)

So, does this "gag order" come about as a result of some kind of law suit involving the Camaro? It's just one thing I thought of for having a gag order that goes beyond the regular not telling people about future product plans.

Hotrodtodd, no lawsuit, just a bad contract, with things GM never expected to deal with.

Cmc, let me point out that there has been an announcement on Solstice, comfirmation of a new GTO before the current one is on the streets, confirmation of the new Cadillac STS, known plans of a Impala redo in 2006, comfirmation of a new Corvette including the fact that it's basically a XLR under the skin, confirmation that Cadillac will produce a RWD large car, possibly to replace DTS.

We know a new Regal is comming, we know a series of RWD sedans are comming, starting in 2006, we know the production startup plans of the Cavalier replacement, we know the Grand Am lineup, including a version with a retractible steel roof, we know there is a new series of V8s comming, and that's just off the top of my head.

All are either from press releases, or from GM executives own mouth themselves.

As you can see, Camaro is missing from this and it's the result from a what amouts to a gag order (actually a letter sent around GM).

If I'm not mistaken, there has been more than a couple of GM people who have actually came out and said this.

Trust me, it's no myth.

Or, you can inquire to certain people yourself. :(

Originally posted by guionM

As you can see, Camaro is missing from this and it's the result from a what amouts to a gag order (actually a letter sent around GM).

If I'm not mistaken, there has been more than a couple of GM people who have actually came out and said this.

Trust me, it's no myth.

Or, you can inquire to certain people yourself. :(

I don't remember any GM people saying there was a Gag Order on Camaro. Who are these people and do you have links?

I remember reading all the posts about the Camaro, and when I first heard of this gag order it was from you guionM and you didn't say from where!!!

Are you sure you're not spreading dis-information for GM when it comes to the Camaro?

I don't think there is a gag order because nothing is being done.