Dead Horse: "Retro" and why I think this interior is so hated.

Ok, the interior pics have just made this relevant again so quickly. A large part of the hate seems to be stemming from the fact that there are two very different interpretations ofthis car (http://www.frostbyte.ca/test%20templatepg3/main%20gallery%20source/O7%20CAMARO%20CONCEPT.jpg) here.

One camp, mine, feels the interior is the wrong choice because it is shamelessly retro and does not match the exterior which is largely modern.

The other, is arguing that a "retro" car should only have a "retro" interior. I don't agree with that, I don't think it even makes sense.

As far as sheetmetal, the only thing on the concept I would attribute only to being "retro" is the front fascia. That's because the grill and it's shape are distinctly 69' Camaro (http://www.stainlessworks.net/cart/images/1969%20Camaro.jpg), as evidenced by the t-shirts (http://www.palmercash.com/images/products/girls-bitchin-camaro-big.jpg) it appears on. Also because deeply recessed grills like that have been absent on modern cars for years... But the rest of the body, that's so "muscular," so "sporty" isn't at all unique to 69', first gen or even Camaro. Long hood, short rear deck, sweptback roof, hips... are all standard stuff for Pony cars and even coupes in general. All of those things can be found on any year Mustang, if you remember the "It looks like a Mustang," comments from the debut, that's part of where they came from. All of those features can even be found alive and well on modern cars like the G35 Coupe (http://www.freshalloy.com/site/cars/infiniti/2003/g35/coupe/photos/photos_001.jpg). Just because they appear on the concept, and on the first gen in no way means the concept is retro first gen.

So outside of that, what else is "retro" and exclusively so to the first gen. Head and fog lights, tail lights, and the quarter windows. That's three, maybe four depending on how you count, "cues" that are inarguably first gen, out of a whole car. Remember, head and tail lights cost $20 and could easily be changed factory or aftermarket for a dramatically different effect, that may or may not say 69'. If you don't believe me wait until the first refresh and see what changes and what effect it has. So that leaves us with front fascia and quarter windows as the two definetly retro, and definetly first gen "cues." Oh, and the fact that it's got a trunk and not a hatch. :|

On the other hand, one could make a case that there is just as much Third gen (http://www.79z28.com/91rs_c.jpg) in the car as there is first. Mid height bodyline crease, edgier body, etc.

So, all that's to say, you could intepret the exterior either way, which is wonderful. However, you can only interpret the interior one way, and that's retro. For those of us who have been seeing a modern car all this time, that's a big problem, it's complete disconnect between the outside and in, that's in addition to the ergonomic and style issues I/we have with it.

Now, keep in mind the reaction so far seems to be only, "kinda like" and "really hate," and multiply that time the larger market, who without badges couldn't point out a 69' Camaro to save their life, who could just as easily be shopping for a G35 or IS350, or who need to justify a Camaro over a milquetoast sedan, and I think you have a slight problem.

No, it isn't a dealbreaker for me, and I may get in the seat, in the proper sight line and not hate it. My concern is that regular people are going to see a great modern car, go on down to to the dealership see a wierd interior, and not care, and certainly not take the time to find out about what is inspired buy a 69' Camaro, and wind up in anyone of a dozen other comparable products.

That's where I'm having some trouble.
My idea of Heritage/retro if you will, "themed" is represented too literally in the Concept and Pre-Prod leak.
My take would be modern media in heritage packaging...maybe virtual gage faces, and NAV, clean crisp surfaces etc etc :shrug:..

I agree with most of the OP's points - though the idea that the exterior and interior may not be perceived as following the same theme doesn't bother me personally. My issue lies with the look of the interior itself - regardless of whether it is true to some retro theme or not (mandatory caveat - my thoughts are based solely on the leaked, unofficial, not-yet-complete, its bound to change, etc, pics of the interior).

Time for a change... I think you might be experiencing toxic shock.


Interesting rebuttal. Please allow me to add this....

[QUOTE=Fbodfather;5086433]...
Repeat after me: "It's about the people!"

The word "Camaro" means "friend, pal, or comrade" -- and thus, let's not insult people....

Not my words - but thought I'd share. ;)

those are your opinions, and you are entitled to them. MY opinion, How you don't see any resemblance to the 69 Camaro and the 09 Camaro other than the grill is beyond me. The entire SHAPE of the car is based on the 69. The roof lines, the C Pillar, the rear quarter, the door, AND the interior are all BASED on the 69 Camaro.
I for one wished for years (long before the Camaro line was even killed off in 02) that Chevy would reproduce a 1969 Camaro with modern drivetrain and brakes and a more modern interior. I'm sure I'm not alone in that as the First Gens are probably the most loved of all Camaros. And the fact that someone out there is making 1969 Camaro bodies so that people out there can do just that. And Motion is back in biz making 1969 highline Camaros with a long list of power options.
So while you are in the camp that would have liked to see the Camaro take the path of further evolution from the 4th gen, MANY of us (read MOST) are estatic that the next Camaro will pay tribute to the heritage of the first gens, mostly the 1969 which in MY opinion is one of the most beautiful cars ever created.
I love the looks, and direction of the new Camaro. and I also love the looks and direction that the interior is going. Other than the Gauge pods and the flatness of the dash what about it screams retro? We can't all be pleased. I'm just glad I'm in the group that is.

Please people, be respectful of one anothers comments. We don't all have to agree, but we can agree to disagree.

Personally, i'm gonna wait until they put out a finished car :)

those are your opinions, and you are entitled to them. MY opinion, How you don't see any resemblance to the 69 Camaro and the 09 Camaro other than the grill is beyond me. The entire SHAPE of the car is based on the 69. The roof lines, the C Pillar, the rear quarter, the door, AND the interior are all BASED on the 69 Camaro.

Did you not read, or not comprehend what I wrote?

Yes I can see 69' in it, both acutely and totally, but what I also know is, lots of cars have hips, lots of cars have roof slots, had quarter windows etc.

So even if the intention from day one was to create a retro car, that was based mostly on 69' Camaro, I think what they created is a car that a lot of people will find attractive and not know or care what was lifted off a classic. That's good, especially considering the direct competition, Mustang and Challenger, at the moment look like carbon copies stretched to modern proportions.

I can't say the same about the interior, it makes me think they'll be forced to compete for the same market as Mustang, when they could have potentially been getting a lot more conquest sales as well, which is what both GM and Camaro need.

Considering some of the people who like this are the same enthusiast who will buy based on the "Camaro" badge alone, and it's alienating a lot of others who have no problem walking to the next product, I think it's a very questionable choice.

Or maybe it will all come together in the end. :shrug:

Ok, so I'm the only one here that's actually sat in a Challenger. Its retro. It looks awesome.

The Camaro interior isn't retro. Its flat awful. I don't know who was smoking what when that center stack was drawn up. All apologies to Scott and those at GM reading this, but that center stack is the epitome of ugly. Kudos to the designers for the cool center stack ancillary gagues, and the nice door panels and cool looking roof console. Otherwise? Frog eye gagues and mutant HVAC controls do not make a nice interior.

Why don't I see retro on this thing?

I see the next edition of a Camaro. I don't see a '69. And I don't think of one when I see it, either. Even the interior...I've compared both the '69's insides to this one's...and I don't think it bears any resemblance past the 6 gauges. And I think the 6 gauges look freaking awesome - but that seems to be just me, and 80% of everyone else, so....:shrug:;)

I've read and heard about the styling cues, and the retro influence. But when I look at where the Challenger came from, and where the Mustang came from - I'm astounded when I hear people call the 5th gen "shamelessly retro".

EDIT: and I'm sorry - but it seems that other than here, and very few other sites I visit; this interior is NOT hated. At least...not by anyone that's hating it for the right reasons. Sorry, but this has become oneof the most worn down, and diseased topics about this Camaro.

To me the interior looks closer to 1968 than 1969.

http://imagehost.vendio.com/bin/imageserver.x/00000000/teamverdone/C48634.JPG
1968 SS

http://www.universalautosalesandclassiccars.com/images/1969%20Camaro32/69Camaro32Interior.jpg.JPG
1969 SS

...this interior is NOT hated. At least...not by anyone that's hating it for the right reasons....

That's an interesting take. Is there a "right reason" to hate the interior?

...

So you agree it's not retro, but you don't have a problem with the interior.

Well that's one counterexample.

That's an interesting take. Is there a "right reason" to hate the interior?
That came off a little controlling, and it wasn't meant that way - frustration seems to take control when I type about these interior shots....

Seeing a prototype car, with such an incomplete interior (not meant to be seen - for obvious reasons), and then deciding to hate it is a wrong reason.

rant:
Barring all this 'basic shapes, and core design features stay' mumbo-jumbo. The prototypes weren't necessarily designed for the comfort of body, and eye of the drivers. At best, they threw together an early mockup (whatever was ready when these were built) so that they could be just passed as functional and driven for testing.
/rant

Hating the interior because one has seen the final production, meant to be seen version, and decides "I'm sorry, that's not for me." (note the relatively kind phrase choice) is the right reason.
That's all I meant.

So you agree it's not retro, but you don't have a problem with the interior.

Well that's one counterexample.
I'm sorry...but I don't understand - Yes what you say is true: I don't think it's retro, and I don't have a problem with it - but... what examples does that counter?

I am excited about the new camaro but....the interior needs really some work IMO, Please, as of now I don't think I am onboard. Please .

The '10 Camaro is simply a modern interpretation of a 1st gen Camaro, just as the Mustang and just as the Challenger. If you like it, great. If you don't, better luck next time.

The '10 Camaro is simply a modern interpretation of a 1st gen Camaro, just as the Mustang and just as the Challenger. If you like it, great. If you don't, better luck next time.
I agree there are a lot of 1stgen cues in there, and it's most like a 1stgen. But that alone would not be enough to explain its phenomenal acceptance by muscle car fans and also the automotive world in general. It seems to me, it also includes cues from the 3rdgen (sharp body angles, steeply reclined front and rear glass) and even the Corvette. For those choosing a car on styling (both exterior and interior), I believe the exterior styling is going to have more influence on their buying decision; but I for one am glad it appears Chevy is staying close to the concept throughout since it helps the Camaro as a whole to be one, compelling, harmonious design.

I think I need to go on record as liking the interior spy shots. All of the whiners are certainly entitled to their own opinions, but I just don't see what they see.

Sure, I've got my gripes. I don't like the retro numbering on the gauges. I don't like like tinker-toy looking radio/HVAC - I'm sure the finished product will look much better. I'm not, and never have been a fan of the console gauges.

NONE of what I just listed would keep me from buying this car.

I think the car buying public is going to dig it.

I can't say the same about the interior, it makes me think they'll be forced to compete for the same market as Mustang, when they could have potentially been getting a lot more conquest sales as well, which is what both GM and Camaro need.

Considering some of the people who like this are the same enthusiast who will buy based on the "Camaro" badge alone, and it's alienating a lot of others who have no problem walking to the next product, I think it's a very questionable choice.

That's a big part of my problem. I think GM had a chance for a homerun by being 'different' than the other retro pony cars coming out. If camaro can't pull in conquest buyers, it is doomed. I guess what remains to be seen is, will the retro interior turn more people on than off. And it's impossible for any one of us to accurately predict that since we're all subject to our own biases.

However, since i stayed at a holiday inn express last night, i'll throw something out. For as much as some people love the retro interior and claim the G8 / CTS / malibu interiors are 'just like everything else', i dont think a single one of them would think less of the camaro if it had that interior. Hell, just look at the millions of posts on this board about the last GTO. Almost without exception everybody loves the interior, the complaints all center on the exterior being boring (or other things like the trunk, but you get the idea). I have not seen a single post by someone saying, yeh the GTO interior is nice, but it's too boring and like everything else to be in a musclecar.


As for a comment like 'go buy a G8 / CTS', i would but i don't want a 4 door car. If there was a new GTO coming based on the G8 though, i would hands down in a second buy it over the 5th gen. But my biggest worry is, this new camaro is going to flop and ruin any chance of future GM RWD performance coupes forever. The same way people pissed and moaned about the GTO being too boring, i'm afraid people will complain the new camaro is too retro, with the interior pushing it off that cliff.

When I saw the first concept my first thought was "cool, modern 69 camaro" No doubt about it, I called my wife to the computer who can tell a '67 form a '68 from a '69 in about 2 seconds, and she says nice car what is it? I thought anyone not living under a rock for the last 40 years would reckognize it as a camaro. Kinda neat actually, that one car can be different things to different people, broadens the appeal. However I agree with the O.P. that the interior is purely retro, and that may turn off some people who see a sleek modern musclecar. Even if all I see is modern 69 camaro. Somehow they need to make the interior affect different people different ways like the exterior.

That's a big part of my problem. I think GM had a chance for a homerun by being 'different' than the other retro pony cars coming out. If camaro can't pull in conquest buyers, it is doomed. I guess what remains to be seen is, will the retro interior turn more people on than off. And it's impossible for any one of us to accurately predict that since we're all subject to our own biases.

However, since i stayed at a holiday inn express last night, i'll throw something out. For as much as some people love the retro interior and claim the G8 / CTS / malibu interiors are 'just like everything else', i dont think a single one of them would think less of the camaro if it had that interior. Hell, just look at the millions of posts on this board about the last GTO. Almost without exception everybody loves the interior, the complaints all center on the exterior being boring (or other things like the trunk, but you get the idea). I have not seen a single post by someone saying, yeh the GTO interior is nice, but it's too boring and like everything else to be in a musclecar.


As for a comment like 'go buy a G8 / CTS', i would but i don't want a 4 door car. If there was a new GTO coming based on the G8 though, i would hands down in a second buy it over the 5th gen. But my biggest worry is, this new camaro is going to flop and ruin any chance of future GM RWD performance coupes forever. The same way people pissed and moaned about the GTO being too boring, i'm afraid people will complain the new camaro is too retro, with the interior pushing it off that cliff.
I did have an 05 GTO and I had mixed feelings about the interior. I liked the high quality. It was quite ergonomic, and a joy to drive in. The seats were super, although a little bulky. But there was a certain element of boredom to it all. It was just like all the other mainstream interiors out there - standard layout, standard (and clackity) HVAC knobs, standard stereo in the center stack. Oh, and no OEM sunroof. Oh, and horribly poor access to the rear seat. *yawn*

And one other thing. I've seen an XM-like antenna on the production Camaro pix released by GM. That has me very excited, since I truly enjoy having OEM-integrated XM in my car. I had to jury-rig my own XM in my GTO, and it was a clunky mess. If the new Camaro does end up with a HUD as is rumored, all the better, since I love how my Prix's HUD shows XM and FM stations when I change them.

OK, now the GTO interior is boring :rolleyes: That's the first time i *ever* heard that one.

btw, being similar to other cars is not in any way a bad thing. Maybe all dashboards and center stacks are becoming similar is because that's what most people prefer.

I mean, most clothes today look pretty similar too. You can rock a leisure suit if you want to be different, and some of your friends down at the disco might think you're looking groovy, but odds are most people are going to think you're a jack ass. This 5th gen interior is like that leisure suit. There is no reason to bring that style back, IMO, there is not going to be a large population that thinks it's groovy.

The '10 Camaro is simply a modern interpretation of a 1st gen Camaro, just as the Mustang and just as the Challenger. If you like it, great. If you don't, better luck next time.

I think I need to go on record as liking the interior spy shots. All of the whiners are certainly entitled to their own opinions, but I just don't see what they see.

I love it when people can't keep up with the level of discourse and try to throw out shady objective sounding comments. :lol:

However I agree with the O.P. that the interior is purely retro, and that may turn off some people who see a sleek modern musclecar. Even if all I see is modern 69 camaro. Somehow they need to make the interior affect different people different ways like the exterior.

Yes, that's all I'm saying. However, I'm starting to believe it will work out.

While I might like to see it scrapped that's not going to happen, but if it is still a prototype. So I'm beggining to believe they've got two or three styles on paper, and that interior is probably pieces from all three, which is why it's not cohesive at all. Once that gets fixed, I'll probably learn to like it.

I love it when people can't keep up with the level of discourse and try to throw out shady objective sounding comments. :lol:



So what is shady and what is objective?

I'm going to go out on a limb and probably be assasinated for this but ..... This new camaro is ugly as hell. Sorry, but there is no way I would ever buy one and personally I think if GM thought sales were bad on the 4th gen's this thing is going to potentially cause GM a financial disaster.

I've owned 1 of each generations and have to say up until 1998 I really liked them. In 1997 I ordered a new 98 camaro but cancelled my order after seeing that hideous front end. The only reason GM kept my business was they found this 97 I currently own with everything on it that I had wanted on my 98.

My high school car was a 69 camaro sure a beater but it was cool looking. Then I progressed to to a very lightly used at the time 1984 camaro berlinetta and in 1990 I found a really nice 1981 Z-28 that I still actually have as well. Why did I buy them? They each had a persona of their own from the decorative stripes, sleek looks, the berlinetta cause yeah the digital dash looked cool as hell, to the 97's sleek looks and a interior that I just like being in. In short the Camaro was unlike any other now however it looks like any boxy looking wanna be classic.

I think if GM thought sales were bad on the 4th gen's this thing is going to potentially cause GM a financial disaster..
That's nice........thank you for sharing.



:rolleyes:Now tell that to the hundreds of people screaming at the top of their lungs at NAIAS in 2006. Let the ones who were crying at that show know what a disaster you think this will be.
Then tell all the Auto magazines who believe this car will be the cat's meow....
Sorry. That wasn't an assasination. but I did let the Suburbans know...;)

On a side note...there was much more to the cancellation of the 4thgen then it's sales numbers. 140,267 in 2001 isn't that bad if you ask me.

OK, now the GTO interior is boring :rolleyes: That's the first time i *ever* heard that one.
Well I do agree the GTO interior got a lot of good press, and did/does satisfy a lot of owners. But I've begun following the advice of some here ( :rolleyes: ) and reading what some others say about GM cars on other sites. And the folks on a Mazda site were not kind about the GTO interior: http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=179349

btw, being similar to other cars is not in any way a bad thing. Maybe all dashboards and center stacks are becoming similar is because that's what most people prefer.
"Most people"? "Most people"... are out there buying Honda Civic sedans. "Most people"... leave layers of Dorito crumbs and candy wrappers under their seats for months or years, and get their car cleaned a couple times a year, when they take it to a scratch-o-wash to have it detailed. "Most people"... don't turn around and look at their car when they park it, and don't give a hoot where they park or what happens to their car when a mechanic or valet attendant is driving it. And "most people" could not make you an accurate pencil sketch of their car's center HVAC/stereo stack, if their life depended on it. (UNLESS you just asked them "Go ahead - make a generic drawing of the standard stack now out there in most cars" ;) )

I'm not quite like that. I care a lot about my cars. I polish them... pamper them... worry about them... and stare at them. In return, I expect them to be special, unique, and innovative. Not just a car for "Most people".
I mean, most clothes today look pretty similar too. You can rock a leisure suit if you want to be different, and some of your friends down at the disco might think you're looking groovy, but odds are most people are going to think you're a jack ass. This 5th gen interior is like that leisure suit. There is no reason to bring that style back, IMO, there is not going to be a large population that thinks it's groovy.
There's a yearning out there, for cars that resonate with buyers. America was the cradle for the mass-produced automobile, and nowhere else do people have such a love affair with their cars. The Muscle Car trend was born here and still thrives today. Demand for the 05+ Mustang has been spectacular, even to the point it has become a critically important part of Ford's business prospects. Chrysler has had success with the PT Cruiser and will likely make big money from the new Challenger (not to mention the 300C and Charger RT/SRT8). Heritage cars have hit a wave and it's unlikely to change anytime soon.

My car is special because it's mine, not because it's got a bunch of gimmicks in or on it.

An interior is exciting when I don't notice it. If I'm driving fast and the steering wheel is responsive in my hand, if the shifter is where I need it to be with throws the right length, that's exciting. It's working when I don't notice it, if it's dark and I can change the radio, cruise, heat, without looking away from the road, it's doing it's job. If I've gotta look or fumble around for buttons or dials, it's not exciting, it's frustrating.

Adding a bunch of obnoxious features, like five different surfaces to seem race inspired, or red lighting, Pontiac, or a ten cent analog clock to seem luxurious, Lincoln, or endless buttons to seem high tech, Lexus... Means someone didn't spend their time wisely IMHO.

And the folks on a Mazda site were not kind about the GTO interior: http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=179349

Not kind? The only negative comments in that thread you posted are people who thought the blue was overbearing or ugly. I'm not going to surf the whole internet looking for other boards opinions, but i'd certainly say you failed at the task.

"Most people"? "Most people"... are out there buying Honda Civic sedans. "Most people"... leave layers of Dorito crumbs and candy wrappers under their seats for months or years, and get their car cleaned a couple times a year, when they take it to a scratch-o-wash to have it detailed. "Most people"... don't turn around and look at their car when they park it, and don't give a hoot where they park or what happens to their car when a mechanic or valet attendant is driving it. And "most people" could not make you an accurate pencil sketch of their car's center HVAC/stereo stack, if their life depended on it. (UNLESS you just asked them "Go ahead - make a generic drawing of the standard stack now out there in most cars" ;) )

I'm not quite like that. I care a lot about my cars. I polish them... pamper them... worry about them... and stare at them. In return, I expect them to be special, unique, and innovative. Not just a car for "Most people".

I pamper my car too, even though it's driven daily. These days i often get people who's minds are completely blown that my car is 3 years old and driven daily, people think i detail it daily. So the battle of ewangs of who cares about there car more and thus has a more important opinion is a draw here.

I'll agree with you that most people don't take that kind of care of their machine. Guess what. THAT INCLUDES MOST OWNERS OF SPORTS / LUXURY CARS TOO, especially not if they're daily driven.

Demand for the 05+ Mustang has been spectacular, even to the point it has become a critically important part of Ford's business prospects.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080103/ap_on_bi_ge/auto_sales

Ford's car sales plummeted 24 percent for all of 2007 as some models like the Ford Mustang aged and a new Ford Taurus sedan was unable to match the volumes of the older version.

Hmmm, says here that mustang sales are slipping. Maybe retro is getting old again?

Not kind? The only negative comments in that thread you posted are people who thought the blue was overbearing or ugly. I'm not going to surf the whole internet looking for other boards opinions, but i'd certainly say you failed at the task.
And I'm not going to re-hash every little thing I research, just because you find the results unpleasant. Suffice it to say, it took about two minutes to google 'GTO interior boring' and find that result, in which some said they did not like it... including complaints about the color choices being overdone. Overdone color in an interior design can also lead to boredom....
I pamper my car too, even though it's driven daily. These days i often get people who's minds are completely blown that my car is 3 years old and driven daily, people think i detail it daily. So the battle of ewangs of who cares about there car more and thus has a more important opinion is a draw here.
I've not made a claim that my opinion is more important, or valid than yours. We are all equals here. My point instead was, we have a standard center stack in so many sheep-a-cars today out of laziness by designers and buyers... not because it's magically somehow "superior". Every now and then, a carmaker gets bold and makes something cool and different, and owners covet that car for a long time. I believe that will happen with the new Camaro.
Hmmm, says here that mustang sales are slipping. Maybe retro is getting old again?
If you read my statement - I was referring to the 05-PLUS Mustang design. (Surely you're not going to try and dispute the success of that? :rolleyes: ). Sure - Ford's had a tough year. The 2007 Mustang is getting past its "new-gotta-have" phase, so it's bound to fade like all non-new-star products as time goes by. But that car has been a phenomenal success for Ford. The new Camaro will likely have a similar 'big splash'... and I imagine GM is already working on its mid-cycle upgrades. I for one hope those do not include yet another Hyundai-wannable IP.

Originally Posted by Good Ph.D:
An interior is exciting when I don't notice it. If I'm driving fast and the steering wheel is responsive in my hand, if the shifter is where I need it to be with throws the right length, that's exciting.
Exactly...that's more important to me than if it's retro or not, but the retro must function!
It must be an extention of "self"...
It needs to have a "flow" to the theme as well, all tied together somehow.
Interior lighting too, is one overlooked area that a lot of times makes a huge difference in how it feels to be in the car, it can really create a good mood.

Speaking of the GTO redesign, I've only heard good things about the interiors, it was the blandness of the exterior styling of the '04 that most complaints were about...that I heard anyways. That's why the remake in '05...

If you read my statement - I was referring to the 05-PLUS Mustang design. (Surely you're not going to try and dispute the success of that? :rolleyes: ). Sure - Ford's had a tough year. The 2007 Mustang is getting past its "new-gotta-have" phase, so it's bound to fade like all non-new-star products as time goes by. But that car has been a phenomenal success for Ford.

One could make the argument that after the novelty of the retro design has worn off, the sales start to tumble. Has this not happened with the Beetle, Prowler, SSR, PT Cruiser(although the PT I think has fared the best)? I'm not saying that is the case but perhapse it is. The third year of production doesn't seem to be so far off from being fresh. I think that most tid bits comming out about the Mustang freshening will be that it will be a more modern design.

Has the '05 Mustang even been that big of a sales sucess over the previous generation? It has been a great PR sucess but I believe the numbers aren't more on average than the previous generation.

About designers being "lazy" about changing the center stack I don't think holds up. Part of the designer's job is to take into consideration user habits, preferences, and intuitions. This is why large sweeping changes like a center gauge cluster fail. This is why there has always been a steering "wheel" and not a yolk or other control configuration. Designing something different, just to be different that goes against user habits, is very risky and has the potential to be a failure. With that said, I don't think the Camaro interior falls into that dramatic catagory, and I feel it is different but just not attractive.

When I look at the 3 cars, Challenger - Mustang - Camaro.
I think, and always have - even when I first came across the cars.

Of the Exteriors:
Challenger: "Retro, totally, and completely"
Mustang: "Meh, Retro...not retro...retro....not retro, oh forget it."
Camaro: "Definitely not retro...but I haven't seen a recessed grille like that in....wow. Totally a '67-'69 Throwback cue that is."

Of the Interiors
Challenger: "Wow; nice, machine-like take on the old design. Slanted center console...hmmm"
Mustang: "Kinda boring...resembles the old ones a little. The Chrome looks nice, though."
Camaro: "Wtf?!?! What is that supposed to be? Oh, the gauges...look at 'em - Ha! I love it - that is totally different in every way. But no way they're keeping any of that. Too bad, I guess."

Turns out GM/Chevy proved me wrong on the interior thing. They are keeping that.;) I understand what folks are saying here about the '69 family resemblance...but to the majority of buyers out there, to the targeted demographics (pretty much everybody), this design (inside, and out) is something new, and different. That's what I'm getting out of it.

I think because we're all so deep-seated in the Camaro's history (that's 2002 and back), a lot of guys, and maybe gals are seeing more retro then is actually there. (i.e. not many of these guys here: the people that constantly say that the Camaro is a totally, and completely retro design that's gonna fade away almost instantly.) I believe they think this because the car's coming back when the other automakers are having success with their retro designs - so that is obviously the only reason it's back......

I'm pretty sure Scott, the rest of the team, and 90% of us folks here have been screaming for it back before the recent throwback Mustang redesign...so retro had nothing to do with it.


Which of these things is not like the others, Which of these things, doesn't belong? (as far as styling goes)
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x210/Dragoneye22/Big3copy.jpg

One could make the argument that after the novelty of the retro design has worn off, the sales start to tumble. Has this not happened with the Beetle, Prowler, SSR, PT Cruiser(although the PT I think has fared the best)? I'm not saying that is the case but perhapse it is. The third year of production doesn't seem to be so far off from being fresh. I think that most tid bits comming out about the Mustang freshening will be that it will be a more modern design.

Has the '05 Mustang even been that big of a sales sucess over the previous generation? It has been a great PR sucess but I believe the numbers aren't more on average than the previous generation.
Someone would have to live under a rock, to not notice what a success the 05-PLUS Mustang has been:

http://money.cnn.com/2005/03/17/pf/autos/ford_mustang/index.htm

(Above article notes Mustang sales rose FORTY FIVE percent from 2004 to 2005).

As for the next Mustang being more modern - I've heard that too. Personally I think it's a mistake to go that route. The Mustang is a genuine American muscle car, a tradition and an icon in its niche. Trying to sneak out of the niche and go up against the Nissan 350Z etc is too big a reach IMO and will cost sales as well as leave Mustang-intenders chagrined (and lining up for Camaros :) )
About designers being "lazy" about changing the center stack I don't think holds up. Part of the designer's job is to take into consideration user habits, preferences, and intuitions. This is why large sweeping changes like a center gauge cluster fail. This is why there has always been a steering "wheel" and not a yolk or other control configuration. Designing something different, just to be different that goes against user habits, is very risky and has the potential to be a failure. With that said, I don't think the Camaro interior falls into that dramatic catagory, and I feel it is different but just not attractive.GM, like other carmakers, has made some design mistakes. SSR comes to mind. It was retro without any innate market. But the new Camaro in contrast, does resonate with a lot of folks. It just 'looks right' to a lot of fans and potential buyers. Its OVERALL design fits their preferences and intuitions. Once again though - it goes back to a basic issue. We DO NOT yet know what the production interior is like. No one has seen, sat in or driven a production 2010 Camaro's interior. What does the interior look like? How does it feel to sit in it and operate controls? What features will be there (eg, possible HUD)? So it's way premature to be concluding "why its so hated" or to be evaluating its "Potential to be a failure".

Once again though - it goes back to a basic issue. We DO NOT yet know what the production interior is like. No one has seen, sat in or driven a production 2010 Camaro's interior. What does the interior look like? How does it feel to sit in it and operate controls? What features will be there (eg, possible HUD)? So it's way premature to be concluding "why its so hated" or to be evaluating its "Potential to be a failure".
I think we should just pop that into our sigs for a while....:rolleyes:

When I look at the 3 cars, Challenger - Mustang - Camaro.
I think, and always have - even when I first came across the cars.

Of the Exteriors:
Challenger: "Retro, totally, and completely"
Mustang: "Meh, Retro...not retro...retro....not retro, oh forget it."
Camaro: "Definitely not retro...but I haven't seen a recessed grille like that in....wow. Totally a '67-'69 Throwback cue that is."

Of the Interiors
Challenger: "Wow; nice, machine-like take on the old design. Slanted center console...hmmm"
Mustang: "Kinda boring...resembles the old ones a little. The Chrome looks nice, though."
Camaro: "Wtf?!?! What is that supposed to be? Oh, the gauges...look at 'em - Ha! I love it - that is totally different in every way. But no way they're keeping any of that. Too bad, I guess."

Turns out GM/Chevy proved me wrong on the interior thing. They are keeping that.;) I understand what folks are saying here about the '69 family resemblance...but to the majority of buyers out there, to the targeted demographics (pretty much everybody), this design (inside, and out) is something new, and different. That's what I'm getting out of it.

I think because we're all so deep-seated in the Camaro's history (that's 2002 and back), a lot of guys, and maybe gals are seeing more retro then is actually there. (i.e. not many of these guys here: the people that constantly say that the Camaro is a totally, and completely retro design that's gonna fade away almost instantly.) I believe they think this because the car's coming back when the other automakers are having success with their retro designs - so that is obviously the only reason it's back......

I'm pretty sure Scott, the rest of the team, and 90% of us folks here have been screaming for it back before the recent throwback Mustang redesign...so retro had nothing to do with it.


Which of these things is not like the others, Which of these things, doesn't belong? (as far as styling goes)
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x210/Dragoneye22/Big3copy.jpg

(I love that picture!)

Thanks for posting, those are some good points. The Camaro manages to walk that tightrope - brings back memories for some, but is unmistakedly new and sharp. It truly is a huge contrast, for example, comparing it to the new Challenger - which is a shameless copy of the old one.

http://static.flickr.com/39/85749774_8fc1940bc9_m.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/84/234236852_3e93f66537_m.jpg
I think it's not as much a copy as many think.
I've seen in it person,( just missed the naked girl on the hood), but it looked very clean and crisp and more understated, like it was ready for production. Where I saw the Camaro as a little over the top, when I first saw it.
I think the Mustang is more of a shameless copy, personally..

http://static.flickr.com/39/85749774_8fc1940bc9_m.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/84/234236852_3e93f66537_m.jpg
I think it's not as much a copy as many think.
I've seen in it person,( just missed the naked girl on the hood), but it looked very clean and crisp and more understated, like it was ready for production. Where I saw the Camaro as a little over the top, when I first saw it.
I think the Mustang is more of a shameless copy, personally..
Well, to each his own on that count (what designs you like)...but I think the fact remains that to enthusiasts of any car; design cues that come from older models stand out to us more than they do to everybody else. I wasn't around for the 60's Camaros, and didn't follow them as much until recently (they're the sh**, btw ;))...so a very large amount of the Concept is pretty new-looking to me - as it probably will be to anybody (non-enthusiast) 48 and younger:p. It's not a bad thing, it's just a part of us.

http://static.flickr.com/39/85749774_8fc1940bc9_m.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/84/234236852_3e93f66537_m.jpg
I think it's not as much a copy as many think.
I've seen in it person,( just missed the naked girl on the hood), but it looked very clean and crisp and more understated, like it was ready for production. Where I saw the Camaro as a little over the top, when I first saw it.
I think the Mustang is more of a shameless copy, personally..
I guess it's one of those subjective things. But I will go out on a limb, and say that the new Camaro is more modern and fresh (IMO) than either the 05-plus Mustang, or the new Challenger...

I also like the Camaro-girl-on-the-hood better :D

http://www.camarohomepage.com/defaul1.jpg

(from http://www.camarohomepage.com/ )

......and NOW we know why Scott goes ballistic when unauthorized photos are posted on the internet.

Someone posted that the first gen cars were most loved -- or something along those lines.

Not true.

We did several studies where we talked to Camaro/Firebird/Mustang/Sport Car intenders in several cities -- 5,000 people as I recall.

The only people who picked the 69 were male V8 Camaro/Firebird/Mustang owners over 40 (and the studies were in 1999-2000-- so those people are pushing -- or bending the hell outta 50..........

Over 80% of the people picked the 85 IROC as the Camaro that 'got it rightr' - that was the true essence of Camaro. That said -- I have a hard time convincing people WITHIN GM of those numbers -- let alone those outside of GM.

Someone made comments that this site has the most naysayers -- and in my searches, they're right -- and it's a small percentage of those on this site.

Someone said the car will be a failure. Perhaps by some strange coincidence, this person may be right -- but frankly, that person couldn't possibly be anywhere near the concepts at any autoshow and make comments like that. The car has been embraced by all ages.........no, not everyone likes it -- but trust me -- I've never seen a car get this much positive attention.

It could be successfully argued that I'm prejudiced.

That said - i get great pleasure (most of the time) by saying "I told you so!"

Time will tell.

Once again -- how 'bout waiting until the finished product hits the showrooms and you drive one????

This may sound mean - -and I don't mean it to -- (but I got up at 3:30am Detroit time and am now in San Jose at it's 12:55am Detroit time -- )

......but I'm certain that a few people on this site are going to be sorely disappointed if the new Camaro doesn't fail. Sorry -- but I read some of these comments -- and I say to myself: "Welll -- it's because they care" and 'they have passion' -- but as I re-read comments, I'm convinced that there are those who do hope this car will fail.

I don't think it will.

I could be wrong....but I've lived with the concept for quite some time - I've taken them all over the United States and Canada -- and I know that the production car is so close to the concept.

Time will tell.

(and I have a longggggggggggggg memory)

Originally Posted by BigDarknFast:
I guess it's one of those subjective things. But I will go out on a limb, and say that the new Camaro is more modern and fresh (IMO) than either the 05-plus Mustang, or the new Challenger... I'd have to say the same thing.

Originally Posted by Fbodfather:
Over 80% of the people picked the 85 IROC as the Camaro that 'got it rightr' - that was the true essence of Camaro. That said -- I have a hard time convincing people WITHIN GM of those numbers -- let alone those outside of GM.I'd say I'm right in there too, it's why I'm keeping and restoring my IROC, tho I'd also take a '68 over a '69 any day. A much smoother, cleaner, less gimmicky looking car!..But I'm biased as well, I cut my teeth on a '68-SS..:D

Originally Posted by Fbodfather:
......but I'm certain that a few people on this site are going to be sorely disappointed if the new Camaro doesn't fail. Sorry -- but I read some of these comments -- and I say to myself: "Welll -- it's because they care" and 'they have passion' -- but as I re-read comments, I'm convinced that there are those who do hope this car will fail.

I don't think it will.I hope I don't look like one of them. EVERY comment I've made is a concern that I think could help the Camaro succeed, and I hope to buy one to ensure it will.

I also like the Camaro-girl-on-the-hood better :D

http://www.camarohomepage.com/defaul1.jpg

(from http://www.camarohomepage.com/ )

I remember that building well but never seeing her in the lobby> :bow:

We did several studies where we talked to Camaro/Firebird/Mustang/Sport Car intenders in several cities -- 5,000 people as I recall.

The only people who picked the 69 were male V8 Camaro/Firebird/Mustang owners over 40 (and the studies were in 1999-2000-- so those people are pushing -- or bending the hell outta 50..........

Over 80% of the people picked the 85 IROC as the Camaro that 'got it rightr' - that was the true essence of Camaro. That said -- I have a hard time convincing people WITHIN GM of those numbers -- let alone those outside of GM.

Someone made comments that this site has the most naysayers -- and in my searches, they're right -- and it's a small percentage of those on this site.

I had a feeling... That was a large part of my point you just supported, whether it was intentional or not. :p

While my first reaction was very bad, that was probably premature, and I am now convinced it will get much better, even I still don't understand all of the choices.

This site may have a lot negative to say, could be age, could be how much we feel we've invested, or anything, but if you've got a long memory, and I don't doubt that you do, then you can probably remember those of us who simply have points of concern, and those others who are ants at a picnic...

Someone would have to live under a rock, to not notice what a success the 05-PLUS Mustang has been:

http://money.cnn.com/2005/03/17/pf/autos/ford_mustang/index.htm

(Above article notes Mustang sales rose FORTY FIVE percent from 2004 to 2005).



You can't look at the last year of a production run and compare it to the debut year of the next generation car, that's a little foolish. Of course there will be an increase in sales, especially when everyone knew what was comming the following year. I never said the new Mustang wasn't a sucess, I just thought I remember seeing the sales numbers of the past Mustang being very high as well. Does anyone have the sales numbers since '94?

As for the Camaro having a modern design and being a great risk and failure, what have they been doing since '67? What would indicate that a modern Camaro would be a failure?

It also is apparent in that picture, the one with all three muscle cars, that they all took the same direction.

Once the Camaro is out, I would love to see the back story on why they did what they did and how much of an influence the Mustang had on the final car.

Over 80% of the people picked the 85 IROC as the Camaro that 'got it rightr' - that was the true essence of Camaro. That said -- I have a hard time convincing people WITHIN GM of those numbers -- let alone those outside of GM.
I happen to be in that group. If I had the $$ to restore an older Camaro, I'd choose a 3rdgen over a 1stgen. It's interesting, to think how the 5gen might have turned out if it had primarily targeted 3gen design cues instead of the 1stgen (I do think there is some 3gen in the 5gen, but its more 1gen really). But this point got me thinking about demographics and perceptions. I love the 3rdgens and have owned two of them (83 Z28, 90 IROC-Z)... but there is a little bit of a stigma associated with them in the general public. Maybe they are too 'recent' in the public mind, to draw cues from, since many are still out on the roads and sadly a lot are ill-maintained and not a good image.

I see a lot of women driving 05-plus Mustangs. I wonder how many would have wanted to be seen in a new Mustang modeled after a 5.0 from the 1980's? Not many, I'd wager. In contrast, a new Mustang with heritage cues from the 60's Mustangs, which are clearly and obviously classics in the public mind, is seen as classy and unique. I believe the same approach will work magnificently for the new Camaro.

As for the Camaro having a modern design and being a great risk and failure, what have they been doing since '67? What would indicate that a modern Camaro would be a failure?

The 4gens went away partly because of their modernistic design. The steeply raked windshield was too much for some. I remember sitting in a Firebird on a showroom floor in 1994. I was keenly interested in the new 4gens, and on the market for a new car. I really did not like how low the windshield was... and how low I sat in the car. (Oddly, by 1999 my preferences had changed, but that's a different story). A lot of the buying public did not like the 4gen's shape and styling. My sister for example - I suggested a Camaro when she was car shopping in 2000... she had the same concerns I had about it though and ended up with a Chrysler Sebring vert.

"Modern" styling on a muscle car is a risky proposition. A lot of the 4gen's success, IMO, was not so much due to the styling but to the incredible performance value they gave for the $$. Styling alone was not the draw. So trying to 'nail' great styling on a new Camaro, without the heritage cues, would be mighty risky for GM IMHO. I read recently that the first CTS had horrible clinic results when GM was deciding whether to produce the car - yet it turned out to be a great success. What if GM clinic'd a modernistic new Camaro, but it then flopped despite good internal research? It's difficult to tell how a car will do beforehand, and very risky to style one with no historical cues.

I've seen pix of the new RWD Hyundai coupe concept. It's all modern and all (obviously, Hyundai's not going to leverage any heritage cues :D ). But for the life of me, I don't recall anything right now, about how it looks. Nothing unique sticks out in my mind. That's not a good sign for success of that car.

In contrast - the Camaro concept drew rave reviews. It won awards. It leaves an unmistakeable impression on those who've seen it, and it reminds fans of the other Camaros that have ruled so many American streets for decades. Looks like a winner to me :cool:

I remember going to the Dayton Auto Show back when the first 4th gens came out. I sat in both the Z28 and the Firebird.

I remember my first impressions were that the visibility of previous generations was lacking and the lumbars in the seats were uncomfortable and confining. And at the time it didn't look a whole lot like a Camaro that I'd recognize, but more of an import feel. And didn't care for that huge dashboard, that if I sat something on and hit the brakes, I wouldn't be able to reach. Under the hood, seeing half the engine under the windshield, being a very mechanical person, thinking how difficult it would be to modify or maintain.(whether true or not)

I DID LOVE the performance numbers!..the engine and the large wide wheels and tires.

I didn't fall for the 4th Gen until the last redesign, then WOW, they really started looking Bad@$$..!
Seems like a lot of the cars start getting it right just before the go on hiatus, or vanish.:(
(...poor Oldsmobile....)

One thing I can say about the new Camaro, noone can deny at one look, that it's unmistakably a Camaro...:cool:

I have my cars pretty much paid off now and starting to build some bank for a new Camaro!..the wife is stoked too!..:bow:
(she loved those color chops!...)

I remember that building well but never seeing her in the lobby> :bow:

If she comes with the car, I'd be willing to pay dealer mark up. :bow:


Also, how is the challenger NOT a copy of a '70? Dodge admitted it was :lol:

One thing I can say about the new Camaro, noone can deny at one look, that it's unmistakably a Camaro...:cool:

To a car fan, sure, it's pretty obvious. Other than that, not so much. I've had the 5th gen vert concept as my background on my computer at work basically since the first pictures were released. It's on my roaming profile so it comes up on the projector in meeting rooms too when i fire everything up. I've had several people in that time remark about what a nice looking *MUSTANG* it was.

To a car fan, sure, it's pretty obvious. Other than that, not so much. I've had the 5th gen vert concept as my background on my computer at work basically since the first pictures were released. It's on my roaming profile so it comes up on the projector in meeting rooms too when i fire everything up. I've had several people in that time remark about what a nice looking *MUSTANG* it was.


Yeah, I've had different pics of the Camaro concepts as screensavers on my computers at work. The only comments I usually get are, "is that the new Mustang"?

To a car fan, sure, it's pretty obvious. Other than that, not so much. I've had the 5th gen vert concept as my background on my computer at work basically since the first pictures were released. It's on my roaming profile so it comes up on the projector in meeting rooms too when i fire everything up. I've had several people in that time remark about what a nice looking *MUSTANG* it was.

Yeah, I've had different pics of the Camaro concepts as screensavers on my computers at work. The only comments I usually get are, "is that the new Mustang"?

it's nice that they notice the big-@ss bowtie right on the front of it.:p

Yeah, I've had different pics of the Camaro concepts as screensavers on my computers at work. The only comments I usually get are, "is that the new Mustang"?One of my coworkers asked me "is that the new Cadillac"? :D

I also like the Camaro-girl-on-the-hood better :D

http://www.camarohomepage.com/defaul1.jpg

(from http://www.camarohomepage.com/ )

I believe that 'Camaro-girl' is Caridee, winner of America's Next Top Model 2 Seasons back... (Now you can look her up on the 'net. LOL)

Yeah, I've had different pics of the Camaro concepts as screensavers on my computers at work. The only comments I usually get are, "is that the new Mustang"?

Yeah, that drives me crazy. LOL I always tell them it looks nothing like a Mustang! To which they act like I'm blind.

Most know, though, that it's a Camaro since I've talked about it so much. But there are the few that still say it looks just like a Mustang...

I think the reason that people say that more than not, is b/c the Camaro is out of production.

Everyone knows they don't make them anymore and hardly noone outside of enthusiests knows it's coming back, and that there's a few of them running around.

I hope they start running some teaser commercials pretty soon, then those comments will fade quickly.

Some of you can remember back in the day it was hard to tell, like @ dusk, if the oncoming car was a Mustang, Challenger or Camaro.

Silohuetted, they are, and have been pretty similar in the first gens...headlights and all.

And I can see how the Concepts' angled front, plus other angles looks similar to a CTS as someone mentioned.

http://www.go-kustom.com/challenger11.jpg
http://www.loutrefranc.com/pix/2006/01/dodgechallenger007.jpg
“Challenger draws upon the initial 1970 model as the icon of the series,” said Tom Tremont, Vice President – Advanced Vehicle Design.

“The 1970 model is the most sought after by collectors. But instead of merely recreating that car, the designers endeavored to build a Challenger most people see in their mind’s eye — a vehicle without the imperfections like the old car’s tucked-under wheels, long front overhang and imperfect fits. As with all pleasurable memories, you remember the good and screen out the bad.

“We wanted the concept car to evoke all those sweet memories … everything you thought the Challenger was, and more.”

Compared to the original, the greenhouse is longer, the windshield and backlite faster, and the side glass narrower. All glass is set flush with the body without moldings, another touch the original designers could only wish for. The car is a genuine two-door hardtop — no B-pillar — with the belt line ramping up assertively at the quarter window just forward of the wide C-pillar.

Exterior details one might expect, like a racing-type gas cap, hood tie-down pins, louvered backlite and bold bodyside striping, didn’t make the “cut,” the designers feeling such assorted bits would detract from the purity of the monochromatic body form. But tucked reassuringly under the rear bumper are the “gotta have” twin-rectangle pipes of the dual exhausts.

In contrast to the bright Orange Pearl exterior, the interior is a no-nonsense, “let’s-get-in-and-go” black relieved by satin silver accents and narrow orange bands on the seat backs.

“Though the 1970 model was looked to for inspiration, we wanted to capture the memory of that car, but expressed in more contemporary surfaces, materials and textures,” said Alan Barrington, principal interior designer.
Rethought, reworked, reproportioned and redesigned, the Challenger concept car offers iconic a HEMI-powered performance coupe derived from a classic American muscle car.

Also, how is the challenger NOT a copy of a '70? Dodge admitted it was:lol:
Similar to how the Camaro isn't a copy of a '69 Z....
Tho once again, the Z has much more character...:bow:

I totally agree with the OP. (disclaimer, havent read the whole thread).
Ill jump up to a C6 or across to a G37 before buying a camaro with the pre-pro retro interior.

I just don't see the retro in this interior.....

Wow, back from the dead.

Indeed. With this thread, it's worse than beating the dead horse - it's getting to be like beating on a pile of bones :death:

I think the interior is too retro as well. I agree the inside doesn't go with the outside. The gauges all in the floor console are silly and take up valuable space. A torque gauge is a waste of money. Put excellent gauges the driver needs and where he needs them. Big radio controls take up too much space, etc.

The main thing I absolutely do not like from the pics I have seen of the interior is that the speedometer doesn't have numbers for the 5s. No 55, 65, 75, etc. Just 50,60,70,80,etc. When I want to set my cruise for 64, for example I want to see that 65 mark. My wife's Jetta has the same kind of speedo with no 5's and its a pain in the ass. I dont' want to have to stop and pay extra attention to that needle to see if I'm 74 or 76 or wtf. Certainly it looks cleaner to have less numbers on the dial, but this isn't some kind of fashion wristwatch. I want clean setup that gives intuitive feedback, not something an Industrial designer thought looked nicer.

Its a dealbreaker for me. :/
Will almost certainly go for a pre-owned vette instead of a SS.

:inperson:

And the numbers on the gauges we've seen in the prototypes aren't the final design.

I will buy one either way and I know these photos aren't of the final version. I will be shocked if the production speedo only has 0 - 20 - 40 - 60 - 80 - 100 - 120 - 140 - 160 like those photos. My dad's 64 pickup has more numbers on the speedo than that. But who knows? Like I said the Jetta only has 3 ticks between each 10mph. So for example you get the #50, tic for 52.5, 55, 57.5 and #60. And all the intermediate tics are the same length! That is verifiable crap that DID make it to production.

This was a series of remarks Scott made on another forum a while back about the Diciples meeting last May:
to give you an idea about details --

The folks loved the speedo/tach gages -- they thought we did a great job....but the ones they saw are still not the final products -- we're gonna improve the appearance.............

Details, details............Does that mean major changes like using a new font or going with 10MPH increments? Or are we talking about some little thing like painting the needles a brighter color?all of that and more.

We can only hope they have something in mind more of the quality of the new Buicks, CTS and Malibu or I will be very dissapointed. I would not spend 35k to 40 k for a SS and have an interior that just does not cut it. Hopefully we will see something within the mext 30 to 60 days that makes us all feel better about the interior.

Seeing the new interior pics, I see GM decided to keep the weird (ugly) 60's speedo font style (tall thin numbers whose angle follows the circumference of the guages) and the centerstack design that looks like its trying to mimic 60s radio controls. I am sorely disappointed.

I may be beating a dead horse, and I reserve the right to change my opinion when I see it in person, but I hate this interior design.

I am personally glad that GM took some design risks in order to give us something unique and different, as opposed to something inoffensive and bland (Challenger). The downside is that some are definately going to hate it.

Seeing the new interior pics, I see GM decided to keep the weird (ugly) 60's speedo font style (tall thin numbers whose angle follows the circumference of the guages) and the centerstack design that looks like its trying to mimic 60s radio controls. I am sorely disappointed.

I may be beating a dead horse, and I reserve the right to change my opinion when I see it in person, but I hate this interior design.

Yup. Same bad design as the first set of pre-pro pictures that everybody said "but it's not final" about. OK, so they put some neato trim covers on it, whoopty doo. The complaints were never with the fit and finish, the complaints were about the whole design.

It still has the bumper car steering wheel, with GIGANTIC fat spokes. And then there's the awkward combinations of shapes and no continuity between round or square vents, dash lines, the radio/hvac, etc. Speaking of which, who came up with resurrecting the sega genesis controllers for HVAC idea? And ridiculously unreadable guage font / increment ticks. Console guages are still stupid, and no obvious spot for a NAV means automatically limiting the market for cross over import sports coupe shoppers who care a lot about such toys.

And the best part of all, from what jasonD implied in the big thread, there isn't even going to be a HUD. So much for "but you can just display the oil pressure on the windshield so the console guages are just for fun" argument.

:( Maybe it will all come together when you get in it.

...And the best part of all, from what jasonD implied in the big thread, there isn't even going to be a HUD. So much for "but you can just display the oil pressure on the windshield so the console guages are just for fun" argument.
You are reading WAY too much into that one statement by him. You'll see what I mean, when the time comes :D

http://www.chevrolet.com/camaro/multimedia/

The ambient lighting curving around the interior is a nice touch, as is the matching red accents. Of course both would have been nicer on a better interior. :p

HUD and what looks a sizeable radio display, I'll probably live with it.

The interior ROCKS!!!!!!!!

The retro gauges aren't surprising. It's what ford did with the mustang so everyone will follow suit.
It's got a new factor for a bit, but it wear's off.
Ask yourself when we swap dashes and gauges in our 3rdgens, do we go for the retro 60's dash or the modern 4thgen dash swap?

"MANY of us (read MOST) are estatic that the next Camaro will pay tribute to the heritage of the first gens, mostly the 1969 which in MY opinion is one of the most beautiful cars ever created.
I love the looks, and direction of the new Camaro. and I also love the looks and direction that the interior is going. Other than the Gauge pods and the flatness of the dash what about it screams retro? We can't all be pleased. I'm just glad I'm in the group that is."

I second that motion.