Holden Commodore = Pontiac G8 CONFIRMED

Amidst all the auto goodness today, I can see why this might have fallen through the cracks:

"We are seriously planning to import a lot of Commodore SS sedans as Pontiac G8s," product development chief Bob Lutz told Australia's Drive today at the Detroit auto show, adding that the company could sell 50,000 G8s per year. "We are yet to officially announce it," he said.

http://www.leftlanenews.com/2007/01/08/gm-confirms-rwd-pontiac-g8/

Oh please oh please oh please do not ruin the looks of this car! Just leave it how it is.. Don't force the Pontiac nose on it. Don't make the hood scoops manditory. Don't put those nasty thin multispoke rims on it.. Just take what they have and make it left hand drive, okay?

Maybe I'm just overreacting a bit.. I did just finish looking at that g6 gxp right beforehand..

THAT is excellent news! HMMM, might have to buy a "practical car" before the Camaro and this would certainly fit the bill!

Damn GM and their alpha numeric name bading. That **** has to stop.

Damn GM and their alpha numeric name bading. That **** has to stop.
Not if it sells!! ;)

And just think, doesn't Z/28 have a nice "alpha-numeric" ring to it?? :D

I'm looking forward to seeing this "new" Pontiac!! :) It should (hopefully) become quite a contender against the currently successful Charger / Magnum / 300C line-up :cool:.

I hope it gets here soon. And I hope it doesn't cost C$50,000.

When do you all think we'll see a concept? Chicago?

When do you all think we'll see a concept? Chicago?

That is my guess. BTW didn't everyone here catch that a few spy photos were taken in AUS of a possible Commodore mule? It was basically a Commodore with a different rear C panel, it was more Statesman like.

Originally posted by R377
I hope it gets here soon. And I hope it doesn't cost C$50,000.


Amen to that - both points.

I agree about the G6 GXP nose point - that's just too much split grille to look at. I think Pontiac erred on that one. The standard G6 grille looks so much better.

According to this article......

Australia's favourite car will be exported across the Pacific from 2008 to join the Pontiac line-up with General Motors in a $1.5 billion deal.

As many as 50,000 cars a year will be shipped.

The SS Commodore will be called the Pontiac G8, and will be priced in the mid-$25,000 range.

It will get some minor cosmetic and safety changes for US motorists.


..... mid 25,000US hopefully isn't being overly optimistic at this point and if so hopefully won't translate into 50,000Cdn in order for us to get one. If there's a Pontiac on the horizon that has my attention (and based soley on my impressions of the Commodore), it's this one and is likely the only one to keep me from a Camaro or Zeta Impala.

As to the when we'll hear more question...

But he (Lutz) said full details would be revealed next month at the Chicago Auto Show.

The entire article is here (http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,21030469-662,00.html)

..... mid 25,000US hopefully isn't being overly optimistic at this point and if so hopefully won't translate into 50,000Cdn in order for us to get one. [/URL]

I honestly don't see how they can sell the V8 version for under USD 30k, especially when an Impala SS is already $29k. I would guess USD 35k, which, knowing how GM Canada loves to bend us Canucks over on any car that hints at fun, would be at least CAD 45k.

If there's a Pontiac on the horizon that has my attention (and based soley on my impressions of the Commodore), it's this one and is likely the only one to keep me from a Camaro or Zeta Impala.
[/URL]

This could be the only new GM car for the next 2-3 years, period, that appeals to me. Although I have to admit the CTS turned out better than I expected (and an aftermarket mesh grille might be what the doctor ordered to fix its ungainly mug).

50,000 per year is alot of capacity for Holden to devote to Pontiac. Can Holden sustain that amount?

Good news for Pontiac. :D

Oh please oh please oh please do not ruin the looks of this car! Just leave it how it is.. Don't force the Pontiac nose on it. Don't make the hood scoops manditory. Don't put those nasty thin multispoke rims on it.. Just take what they have and make it left hand drive, okay?

Maybe I'm just overreacting a bit.. I did just finish looking at that g6 gxp right beforehand..

I agree.

As I still own my Trans Am and most likely will never sell it, another 2 door coupe probably doesn't make sense, especially with a little one on the way in a few months. I will definitely buy one of the G8's, four doors, manual, nice trunk, plenty of room for the car seat in the back!! Can't wait to see how it turns out. I'm with the rest of you, don't fudge up the look and make it look bland. Keep it as true to the current styling as possible. They need to keep it as close to $30k as possible. I am guessing the options will be limited as most will come pretty loaded, fine by me.

it get's Lutz's approval. But wonder how Pontiac is going to neuter it's styling.

http://img.drive.com.au/drive_images/Editorial/2007/01/09/holdM_m.jpg

General Motors let the cat out of the bag early at the Detroit motor show when it announced that Holden's VE Commodore SS would be exported to America, reports JOSHUA DOWLING.

Australia's biggest-selling car, the Holden Commodore, will be exported to the United States, it was unofficially confirmed at the Detroit motor show last night.

The announcement was not due to be made until next month's Chicago motor show. But the worldwide head of product development for General Motors, Bob Lutz, gave away more than he was supposed to during a press conference.

Just minutes after Holden officials refused to answer questions about the Commodore's export program, Mr Lutz revealed details about the deal.

The Commodore SS, a V8-powered sports sedan, will be sold as a Pontiac from late this year or early next year.

Holden expects to export 30,000 Commodores annually, about half what it sells locally.

"We are seriously planning to import a lot of Commodore SS sedans as Pontiac G8s," Mr Lutz said, adding that Holden could export up to 50,000 Commodores a year if the model was priced correctly.

Mr Lutz said the export of the Holden Monaro as a Pontiac GTO from 2003 to 2006 (during which 40,000 of the V8 coupes were sold) brought Holden's expertise to the attention of its parent company, General Motors in North America.

"We are yet to officially announce it," Mr Lutz said of the Commodore export deal, once he realised he had made a faux pas. He eventually admitted that selling the V8 version of the Commodore in the US was a logical thing to do as it filled a void in Pontiac's line-up.

"While (the Monaro's) export program may not have fulfilled all of our hopes and dreams in terms of profitability and volume, it did break the ice on global programs."

The export deal comes at a crucial time for the Commodore. It has been Australia's biggest-selling car for 11 years but sales are at a 16-year low as imports flood Australia.

Holden already exports to the Middle East five times as many Statesmans as it sells locally and exports are increasingly being viewed as a key to the Commodore's survival.

Sales of large, locally made sedans were at a 16-year low in 2006 as buyers embraced small cars.

Last year, sales of the Ford Falcon were their lowest since the late 1960s. Ford is yet to announce an export deal but an updated Falcon due in March 2008 will have the capability to be built in left-hand drive.

When Holden developed the new Commodore, released last August, it did so with American regulations in mind. This has made the transformation from a Commodore to a Pontiac relatively simple.

(and an aftermarket mesh grille might be what the doctor ordered to fix its ungainly mug).


I hope you don't mean the Commadore... I mean seriously c'mon look at this beauty

http://www.cycloneinjapan.com/upload/files/46/CommodoreVE.jpg

http://img.drive.com.au/drive_images/Editorial/2007/01/09/holdM_m.jpg
...



Reading that just reminds me how much I'd like the falcon to come over here too :bow:

I hope you don't mean the Commadore... I mean seriously c'mon look at this beauty

http://www.cycloneinjapan.com/upload/files/46/CommodoreVE.jpg

He definitely was talking about the new CTS

I really hope they don't touch anything when they bring it over here...The car looks great as is, inside and out :yes:

I hope that you can get a spoiler delete. Pontiac can take the excess spoilers and bolt them to the roofs of all the G6 GXP's they are going to sell. Double the spoilage!

Anyway, I'm serious about the spoiler delete.

They're planning on selling 30,000 - 50,000 (pretty good spread) V8 G8's a year?

Is there a way to find out how many V8 Chargers Dodge is selling a year?

I hope you don't mean the Commadore... I mean seriously c'mon look at this beauty
He definitely was talking about the new CTS

Thanks, eagle, yes I was. My thoughts have been all over the map lately :)

I agree with Ken S, the car is just about perfect the way it is, please don't mess it up. You can bet on a Pontiac twin-kidney grille, but with any luck it'll be easy to swap out with a Holden if they make it too tacky.

The Commodore has been my wallpaper for the last few months, something to inspire me every day I come into work :)

Isn't this 50K per year higher than the retail GP sales?

I hope they don't 'F' up the styling on it. If it looks like the Commodore, with a mild Pontiac grille, I'm in. If it looks like the new G6 grille, I'm out, cause that is straight up uckin fugly.

Oh please oh please oh please do not ruin the looks of this car! Just leave it how it is.. Don't force the Pontiac nose on it. Don't make the hood scoops manditory. Don't put those nasty thin multispoke rims on it.. Just take what they have and make it left hand drive, okay?

I agree!
http://img02.picoodle.com/img/img02/7/1/9/f_PonitacGi_bda3m_59b18488.jpg

Also, on another board, folks were speculating that their would be a V6 base model, which is how you get 50K per year at under $30K.

Now that looks nice! :bow:

So much better then the ugly faces Pontiac has had for about ever...

My dad thinks it looks like a Mazda. While I can see how he can see it that way, I disagree.

He definitely was talking about the new CTS

Thats the first head on pic Ive seen of this car . Now I get why Guy said u have to see this car in person , the fender bulges are huge . I cant wait to see this awesome car in the US .

If I can get the preformance package with a healthy smooth V6 and a manual under $30k, with the nice multicolor interior, I will seriously consider that too..

Especialy _IF_, its got a good feel in the brakes, steering, shifter, suspension, transition movements, etc.

If GM can nail that formula down at a good price with good looks, I don't see why this car wouldn't sell out all at MSRP.

I agree!
http://img02.picoodle.com/img/img02/7/1/9/f_PonitacGi_bda3m_59b18488.jpg

Only way they could pull of a poncho nose is if they did the nostrils like they have on the 73 T/A with a nice arrow in the middle..
http://www.pontiacserver.com/blackhawk02/73ta-fl800c.jpg

Only way they could pull of a poncho nose is if they did the nostrils like they have on the 73 T/A with a nice arrow in the middle..

Actually, they haven't always insisted on a "poncho nose":

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/8964/bonnevilleti4.jpg

There's also this, which still looks very Pontiac, but is not so worn out:

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/2579/gtodrawingtw8.jpg

I really think this car demands some real visual identity from the G6/Grand Am/Grand Prix. The GTO got the "poncho nose" and look what happened.

Actually, they haven't always insisted on a "poncho nose":

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/8964/bonnevilleti4.jpg

There's also this, which still looks very Pontiac, but is not so worn out:

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/2579/gtodrawingtw8.jpg

I really think this car demands some real visual identity from the G6/Grand Am/Grand Prix. The GTO got the "poncho nose" and look what happened.

I preffer this:

http://img487.imageshack.us/img487/2595/99gto4td.jpg

....please just put the Pontiac arrowhead in the stock SS-V Holden bumper cover and just call it a day . Its looks sooooooooo good jus how it is . The Holden is a continent away , so jus completely 100% badge engineer this bioooootch :)

Agreed.

Yea, I prefer the stock Holden fascia with the Pontiac emblem (lets try to get one that doesn't turn yellow in 6 months this time).

If they need a split grill I woould like to see hard lines, like the center section of the '65 line.

Useless info- the split grill came about in '59 (stemming from the silver streaks that went on the hood; single up to '54, dual in 55 and 56; none in 57and 58 thanks to Bunkie Knudsen trying to shed the grandpa image). The '59 Pontiac was very well received but the '60 pontiac did not have a split grill (and looked awesome) because it was too late to change it. from '61 on everything had a split grill of some sort- except for the Fiero which had a single opening for some reason. LT-1 T/A's didn't really have a grill but definitley had a line down the center.

I SAID it was useless information....

I posted this on another board,
Hopefully they dont screw it up with the Pontiac front end. to which my friend that works at GM responded:
I didnt think it looked bad. ;)
Cant wait to see it.

While the GTO program might not have fulfilled all our hopes and dreams in terms of profitability, it did break the ice on global programs.
With the GTO we made a bit of a mistake.
The deterioration in profitability through the appreciation of the Australian dollar, we passed on to the customer.
It gets to be an oxygen-deprived environment. This time we're going to try very hard to keep the vehicle in the mid-$20,000s.


...

Reading that just reminds me how much I'd like the falcon to come over here too :bow:

I'm a big fan of the Falcon and the Turbo I6. But the new twin turbo V6 in the Lincoln concept could make me forget about the Falcon.

Useless info- the split grill came about in '59
Well, I think the idea behind the classic Pontiac snout was to have an "arrowhead" point on it. The grille details were secondary and often varied.

It was only in the mid 80s that they switched over to the kidneys grille (with no point) and even that wasn't totally universal until the late 90s. (Early 90s Grand Prix, mid-90s Bonnevile had normal grilles.)

....please just put the Pontiac arrowhead in the stock SS-V Holden bumper cover and just call it a day . Its looks sooooooooo good jus how it is . The Holden is a continent away , so jus completely 100% badge engineer this bioooootch :):thumb:

The deterioration in profitability through the appreciation of the Australian dollar, we passed on to the customer.
It gets to be an oxygen-deprived environment. This time we're going to try very hard to keep the vehicle in the mid-$20,000s.

That's what I don't get. When the GTO program was conceived the Australian dollar was somewhere between 50 and 60 cents. Now it's around 80 cents.

If the GTO had to sell in the low $30,000s to have a chance at profitibility, how can the Commodore, 4 years later, with a 40% stronger dollar, and a likely more expense car to build, hope to sell for less? I suppose a V6 model would help a little, although the HFV6 is not any cheaper to build than an LSx, and the article specifically mentioned the Commodore SS.

That's what I don't get. When the GTO program was conceived the Australian dollar was somewhere between 50 and 60 cents. Now it's around 80 cents.

If the GTO had to sell in the low $30,000s to have a chance at profitibility, how can the Commodore, 4 years later, with a 40% stronger dollar, and a likely more expense car to build, hope to sell for less? I suppose a V6 model would help a little, although the HFV6 is not any cheaper to build than an LSx, and the article specifically mentioned the Commodore SS.

That's what I keep telling people who care to listen to my logical reason... why do a pair of Levi denim jeans cost $US30 and we Aussies must fork out $AU130?

We pay more for our cars in Australia, not because of economies of scale IMO, but because our perception of value is lower than that of the US consumer... in other words we are prepared to pay more for the same item, and hence, vendors are prepared to charge more.

When is colonial Australia going to break itself free from Mother England?!?!? :cry:

That's what I keep telling people who care to listen to my logical reason... why do a pair of Levi denim jeans cost $US30 and we Aussies must fork out $AU130?

We pay more for our cars in Australia, not because of economies of scale IMO, but because our perception of value is lower than that of the US consumer... in other words we are prepared to pay more for the same item, and hence, vendors are prepared to charge more.

When is colonial Australia going to break itself free from Mother England?!?!? :cry:
Hmmm, sounds like exactly the same problem we have here in Canada too??! ;)

I agree!
http://img02.picoodle.com/img/img02/7/1/9/f_PonitacGi_bda3m_59b18488.jpg

Also, on another board, folks were speculating that their would be a V6 base model, which is how you get 50K per year at under $30K.

That is awesome. :eek: :bow:

That is awesome. :eek: :bow:
For sure! :yes:

"BRING IT", and it will sell :thumb:.

That's what I don't get. When the GTO program was conceived the Australian dollar was somewhere between 50 and 60 cents. Now it's around 80 cents.

If the GTO had to sell in the low $30,000s to have a chance at profitibility, how can the Commodore, 4 years later, with a 40% stronger dollar, and a likely more expense car to build, hope to sell for less? I suppose a V6 model would help a little, although the HFV6 is not any cheaper to build than an LSx, and the article specifically mentioned the Commodore SS.

We'll see. GM did originally want the GTO to sell for mid 20's, and at that price, I think ALL of it's sins would have been forgiven.

Still, the question is, can they bring a V8 Commodore here for mid 20's? Tough one. Certainly not the SS-V, but maybe the lower content, cloth seat SS.

We'll also see if Pontiac dealers screw the pooch on this one - again.


Also, I'm not sure how much I like the G8 name, but I'm thinking it's time to give the Grand Prix name a little break, before every last bit of equity has been squeezed out of it. What started out as Pontiac's premiere, high style, luxury/performance coupe, has de-evolved into Pontiac's generic rental sedan.

I have a feeling there's not going not be a stripped down version.. I bet a leather V6 with no satnav is going to be the lowest cost version.. Obviously, I could be wrong.

50,000 per year is alot of capacity for Holden to devote to Pontiac. Can Holden sustain that amount?

Based on what's going on right now, I'd say Holden is probally capable of even more than that. The factory went through a major expansion even after the added 18,000 GTOs that they were producing on existing lines.

But even more important is that Holden stands to make a nice amount of money when Pontiac gets the sedan.

Like certain cars here, Holden sold a huge portion of their cars at cut-rate levels to fleet buyers. Right now, VE's overall sales numbers are down sharply because Holden isn't cutting deals for volume purchases anymore (though retail sales are relatively flat. If Holden sells a massive number of sedans via Pontiac at retail prices, they're certain to make far more money while bringing their factory back up to full production (they're operating at something like 65-70% last I heard) and 3 shifts (currently working just 2 with a large number of the workers hired for GTO and high VY & VZ demand layed off).

If the GTO had to sell in the low $30,000s to have a chance at profitibility, how can the Commodore, 4 years later, with a 40% stronger dollar, and a likely more expense car to build, hope to sell for less? I suppose a V6 model would help a little, although the HFV6 is not any cheaper to build than an LSx, and the article specifically mentioned the Commodore SS.

Here's a thought:

Right now GM sells something like 75,000 no-profit plastic-fantastic Grand Prixs to fleets.

Why not sell 50,000 no-profit kick-ass G8s to consumers instead?

The financial impact would be the same, but the latter would enhance Pontiac's reputation rather than diminishing it.

(And thanks for the thanks on the 'shop. Took me all of 5 minutes :D)

That's what I keep telling people who care to listen to my logical reason... why do a pair of Levi denim jeans cost $US30 and we Aussies must fork out $AU130?

We pay more for our cars in Australia, not because of economies of scale IMO, but because our perception of value is lower than that of the US consumer... in other words we are prepared to pay more for the same item, and hence, vendors are prepared to charge more.

When is colonial Australia going to break itself free from Mother England?!?!? :cry:

What is the exchange rate? And +1 for please dont screw up the style! The Commodore looks good as is. I like it better than the CTS.

Thats the first head on pic Ive seen of this car . Now I get why Guy said u have to see this car in person , the fender bulges are huge . I cant wait to see this awesome car in the US .

Wait till you see it on the streets (it isn't the same seeing it indoors at an auto show). You can't miss the thing.

I preffer this:

http://img487.imageshack.us/img487/2595/99gto4td.jpg

:eek: :barf:

That's what I don't get. When the GTO program was conceived the Australian dollar was somewhere between 50 and 60 cents. Now it's around 80 cents.

If the GTO had to sell in the low $30,000s to have a chance at profitibility, how can the Commodore, 4 years later, with a 40% stronger dollar, and a likely more expense car to build, hope to sell for less? I suppose a V6 model would help a little, although the HFV6 is not any cheaper to build than an LSx, and the article specifically mentioned the Commodore SS.

Thing is GTO didn't have to sell in the low 30s to be profitable.

The car was designed to be profitable selling just 5,000 cars over a 3 year period.

The amount invested to make the Monaro into a US GTO was roughly the same minute $68 million that it cost to make the Monaro out of the Commodore, meaning it also would need to sell 5,000 per year to be worth while.

Monaro ran 5 years at 5,000 cars per year, GTO ran 3 years at about 14,500 cars average.

Instead of selling a total of 30,000 Monaro/GTOs to make the whole thing profitable, over 68,500 were sold.

Assembly line costs were neglible, and for all intents and purposes, content costs came right out of Commodore. Essentially, the only real costs over a Commodore (+/- $22-30K) was the cost of the actual development, which was paid for more than twice over.

The VE was set up to be profitable in just the Australian market (the WM on the other hand wouldn't exist without the export market). Unlike the Commodore/Monaro/GTO, it was made from the 1st bolt to pass US regs, so no additional cash outside the cost of testing is needed to certify.

In short, you're spending considerably less to create a car than before (which was minimal) based on a car that supposedly costs less to build, than the increase of the Aussie dollar, and still stand a chance to make a bigger profit.

It most certainly won't cost in the mid 20K the article is hinting at, but it should be on par with a Grand Prix GTP's $28-31K pricetag.

It most certainly won't cost in the mid 20K the article is hinting at, but it should be on par with a Grand Prix GTP's $28-31K pricetag.

Really? With the LS2 (or LS3)? A four-door, five-passenger sedan with good handling and brakes, IRS, available manual transmission, 400 hp, and a quality interior for $31k?

Wow. If that's the way it shakes out, the Charger is going to look really overpriced.

Hmmm, sounds like exactly the same problem we have here in Canada too??! ;)

Australia and Canada have quite a bit in common, once you allow for the superficial differences.

Tundra/desert take up roughly the same percentage of space. In Canada, most people live near the southern border. In Australia, most people live near the coast.

There's no equivalent to Quebec in Australia, however.

There's no equivalent to Quebec in Australia, however.
They really are a breed of their own!! ;) :D

Really? With the LS2 (or LS3)? A four-door, five-passenger sedan with good handling and brakes, IRS, available manual transmission, 400 hp, and a quality interior for $31k?

Wow. If that's the way it shakes out, the Charger is going to look really overpriced.

LS2 6 speed Berlina (my favorite) should run upper 20s. I can see adding a rear spoiler and dress ups as a appearence model and sell it at the same price as a GTO.

I doubt there will be a V6 version available here because I imagine GM would keep options to a minimum again to save costs. This is just personal opinion, not definitive. If a V6 did make it here, it's going to be the cammer 3.6 since it's going to be in similar cars here in a few years. Also, if it did make it here, I can see it priced in the mid 20s. But not the V8s.

Although I'm probally going to be outnumbered, I'm not a big fan of the SS, and even less a fan of the HSV version. the body is already on the edge of being overstyled (trust me, pictures don't convey that) and adding wings and spoilers make it look ricey... especially in that retina melting red. But it will be a great competitor to the Charger SRT. :)

The Berlina, on the other hand, in black or dark blue, easily looks like a car James bond would use as a daily driver. It has BMW elegence, but is styled alot better. It looks striking with it's side windows fully framed in chrome trim, sculptured body, wedge shape, and front overhang that's almost nonexistant.