650-700rwhp...who's there??

So going through the calculations for what i want, it shows that i need 650rwhp in a 3000-3200lb car to get me where i want (140mph traps). I had planned on nitrous, but with the amount of passes/bottle running a 250 shot, and the cost of n2o(about 5.00/lb here in milwaukee) i'm looking into a s/c setup.

so what you guys running? boost? internals? heads/cam? anything you would have done differently to get to your goals?

Thanks for any help!!

Chris

'94 Camaro
9sec/140mph buildup in process....

ya, i'd advise to look into a cheaper hobby that at least holds some of its value :rolleyes:

thanks Jimmy :)

but i like my hobby, even if it does cost me every penny of my income!

ya, i like this hobby too but i'm tired of spending money

It's easy: big blower (T or YS-trim Vortech, Procharger D1), intercooler/water injection, decent heads, cam, ignition upgrades, stout short block, fuel system, aftermarket ECM or extensive mods/programming to the stocker, driveline to stand up to the hp (12-bolt or 9", driveshaft, T56 mods or TH400), etc.

Bring about $20K, maybe more.

Good luck.

Rich Krause

ya, that 20k figure is good....i'm getting close and i've been lucky enough to pick up really good deals along the way to boot

I'm at about $28k but that includes some labour and some "mistakes".

Originally posted by 97TA-WS6-Con
I'm at about $28k but that includes some labour and some "mistakes".

What "mistakes" did you make? :D Just trying to pick up some info before I get into this mess.

-Alex

Where to begin

I started with 42 injectors. Not big enough. I got 55# ones. Whoops, Wrong "style", got 50#'s.

Motor I bought came with a new RPS Turbo clutch. It broke. - pucks came off - got another one. It slipped. Finally did what I should have done in the beginning and go a Mcleod. Clutch has been re&re four times now. Five if you include the fact I just pulled the motor on Sunday.

Had a rear main seal / rear oil pan leak. Did not address it for 15 months. Eventually caused the Macleod to get oil soaked. Needed a rebuild $300 plus shipping both ways.

Struggled with LT1 Edit for OBD2. Found the injectors went balistic. Apparantly OBD can only support about 36# injectors. went to OBD1. Finally decided to do what I should have done at the start and get a FAST. Now probably need 72# injectors.

Got a Walbro Intank 340W pump cause loosing fuel pressure. Cost money to get someone to change it. STILL not enough pump, going to a Racetronic Dual Intank.

Over filled the ATI blower - long story. Caused the seals to leak. Had to send it to ATI for rebuild. (Hopefully not to expensve)

Went through three belts trying to get the pulleys aligned - $75 each (In fact running on an 11 rib right now as it is).

There are lots of others but I will just embarass myself further.

Bottom line. I THOUGHT I had done all the research before starting ths project. Though I did not think I was taking the cheap route I certainly should have erred on the side of "spend more money to get it perfect the first time". I also had NO previous experience and no matter how much research, experience is everything. I also was too scared to do most of the work myself and I thus had a lot of labour cost even though many friends have helped me as well.

In hindsight, the motor and blower were a lot more powerful combination then I expected.

However, I have chosen to have the motor refreashed and a bunch of other things done to get it right once and for all and I have in fact taken the whole car apart myself over the last three weeks. the ENTIRE suspension, gas tank and the motor was pulled on Sunday with some help.

Of course I'm scared to death about putting it all back together. However, I will have the respect of my peers, the pride of having done it myself and a lower line of credit balance then otherwise)

Would I do this again? NO (ie I will not do this second time)
Do I regret doing it? Yes and No (see next questoin)
What would I do differently or what would I advise someone in MY situation to do if they asked?
Put it on a truck, send it to Agostino Racing with a blank cheque and a rwhp objective. Period.

Nice post. I'd like to comment...and maybe ask some questions. :)


I started with 42 injectors. Not big enough. I got 55# ones. Whoops, Wrong "style", got 50#'s.


Did you have idling issues with the 50# injectors? I hear they don't idle well because they are right on the limit for high Z injectors. I was thinking 70ish lb low Z injectors with the Acceleronics impedance converter (good 'ole LJ).


Struggled with LT1 Edit for OBD2. Found the injectors went balistic. Apparantly OBD can only support about 36# injectors. went to OBD1. Finally decided to do what I should have done at the start and get a FAST. Now probably need 72# injectors.


Thankfully, I am OBD1. I have no intention of going to FAST.


Got a Walbro Intank 340W pump cause loosing fuel pressure. Cost money to get someone to change it. STILL not enough pump, going to a Racetronic Dual Intank.


Do you mean 340M? How much power were you able to make with it?

I was going to do the single pump Racetronix setup and keep power under 550rwhp. If I'm near the limit of my fuel system, I'd try to use some sort of voltage booster to give me the edge (PNP if I use Racetronix's kit). When the time comes to go over that, I'd just upgrade the whole thing.


Over filled the ATI blower - long story. Caused the seals to leak. Had to send it to ATI for rebuild. (Hopefully not to expensve)


Whoops...ATI told me 6 oz - no less, no more. She also told me a rebuild is $75...hopefully it applies in your case.


Went through three belts trying to get the pulleys aligned - $75 each (In fact running on an 11 rib right now as it is).


Did you consider SD Concepts tensioner? I've heard some good things about it here. Or was this a pulley alignment issue on the HB?


There are lots of others but I will just embarass myself further.


Email me privately if you get a chance. :D aa4d@erols.com


What would I do differently or what would I advise someone in MY situation to do if they asked?
Put it on a truck, send it to Agostino Racing with a blank cheque and a rwhp objective. Period.

NO WAY would I give my car to ARE. :eek: If I just wanted to give up and pay the BIG bucks, I'd just give it to Mike at MORE.

-Alex

thanks guys for your thoughts. i know this is gonna be expensive. but that's what it has to be to be done right and to accomplish your goals. any others have thoughts on specifics for parts?

Chris

Buy a rolling chassis and drop a motor/tranny in it.. it will make your life a lot easier.

hehehe

'94 V6 camaro w/ perfect body and frame, never in an accident

$1000 :)

that's what i got. working on the suspension/cage/interior/fuel system now

Yep, $20K is a minimum. I never said I spent "only" $20K, I wish that was all I spent :rolleyes:. I made the clutch mistake, went with too high a CR on my original build, had the wrong cam, etc.

I have never added up the total I have spent so far, likely would cause me to faint :( . But it's been a lot of fun, I have learned a lot, and gotten a lot of enjoyment out of the car. It was fun to look at the latest Road & Track magazine and see that my is much faster (at least in a straight line) than a McLaren F1, Ferrari F40, or Porsche 959 and didn't cost more than a small fraction of any of these cars.

Rich Krause

Originally posted by rskrause
Yep, $20K is a minimum. I never said I spent "only" $20K, I wish that was all I spent :rolleyes:. I made the clutch mistake, went with too high a CR on my original build, had the wrong cam, etc.

I have never added up the total I have spent so far, likely would cause me to faint :( . But it's been a lot of fun, I have learned a lot, and gotten a lot of enjoyment out of the car. It was fun to look at the latest Road & Track magazine and see that my is much faster (at least in a straight line) than a McLaren F1, Ferrari F40, or Porsche 959 and didn't cost more than a small fraction of any of these cars.

Rich Krause

I've seen your post in the Autocross section. I think it is possible to get very close to the big $$ cars in the corners with the right modifications ... let the hunt continue

And FWIW, I'm into mine for around $15k, but then again, I'm still on the stock internals ... :eek:

To get to the big HP # all the reading I've done has led me to ...
-Forged rotating assembly 3.75" stroke
-9:1 Forged Blower pistons
-T-trim
-Aftercooler
-LT-1 editor and 42 - 50# injectors with either a Super Fueler or a crude FMU to cover up the top end fueling.
-220/230 type camshaft
-AFR 195cc heads
-4 bolt splayed caps ... essential

everything but the cam shaft is now lying on the ground ... fortunately it's winter now ... unfortunately ... it will be spring before the credit card is back under control ... :p

If anyone sees anything I'm missing ... chime in ... sure would hate to smoke a $8K engine ... :)

LWM

Well, it'd be damn interesting to see a "comaprison test" in one of the big car mags between an all out F-body and the megabuck supercars. It won't happen though. Too jarring to their world view!

I concur that with the right suspension and brake mods along with the kind of motor being talked about here the "archaic" solid axle, front engine, pushrod V-8 Chevy/Pontiac would not look too bad in comparison to the $0.5 million exotic supercar. The mods, done to the highest professional standard wouldn't be more than $30-40K. So including buying a nice used car to start with the whole thing would be <$50K. ~10% at most of the cost of the "supercar".

Mine's not too far, in fact :D! The motor is there and with the planned brake, suspension, and wheel and tire upgrades it would be in the ballpark. Seats (sorta) for four as well.

It's a real pity that the 4th gen is no more. GM sucksdick :(

Rich Krause

Originally posted by rskrause
Well, it'd be damn interesting to see a "comaprison test" in one of the big car mags between an all out F-body and the megabuck supercars. It won't happen though. Too jarring to their world view!

I concur that with the right suspension and brake mods along with the kind of motor being talked about here the "archaic" solid axle, front engine, pushrod V-8 Chevy/Pontiac would not look too bad in comparison to the $0.5 million exotic supercar. The mods, done to the highest professional standard wouldn't be more than $30-40K. So including buying a nice used car to start with the whole thing would be <$50K. ~10% at most of the cost of the "supercar".

Mine's not too far, in fact :D! The motor is there and with the planned brake, suspension, and wheel and tire upgrades it would be in the ballpark. Seats (sorta) for four as well.

It's a real pity that the 4th gen is no more. GM sucksdick :(

Rich Krause

Ditto. Don't get me on my soap box about GM's current direction in the affordable performance car dept. I get so :mad: I want to :barf:. But at least I already have a car I'm proud of.

I estimate that my car is at the 650-700 point.

I have $30k invested in parts alone.

Did most of the labor myself.

Originally posted by 97TA-WS6-Con
Where to begin

I started with 42 injectors. Not big enough. I got 55# ones. Whoops, Wrong "style", got 50#'s.

Motor I bought came with a new RPS Turbo clutch. It broke. - pucks came off - got another one. It slipped. Finally did what I should have done in the beginning and go a Mcleod. Clutch has been re&re four times now. Five if you include the fact I just pulled the motor on Sunday.

Had a rear main seal / rear oil pan leak. Did not address it for 15 months. Eventually caused the Macleod to get oil soaked. Needed a rebuild $300 plus shipping both ways.

Struggled with LT1 Edit for OBD2. Found the injectors went balistic. Apparantly OBD can only support about 36# injectors. went to OBD1. Finally decided to do what I should have done at the start and get a FAST. Now probably need 72# injectors.

Got a Walbro Intank 340W pump cause loosing fuel pressure. Cost money to get someone to change it. STILL not enough pump, going to a Racetronic Dual Intank.

Over filled the ATI blower - long story. Caused the seals to leak. Had to send it to ATI for rebuild. (Hopefully not to expensve)

Went through three belts trying to get the pulleys aligned - $75 each (In fact running on an 11 rib right now as it is).

There are lots of others but I will just embarass myself further.

Bottom line. I THOUGHT I had done all the research before starting ths project. Though I did not think I was taking the cheap route I certainly should have erred on the side of "spend more money to get it perfect the first time". I also had NO previous experience and no matter how much research, experience is everything. I also was too scared to do most of the work myself and I thus had a lot of labour cost even though many friends have helped me as well.

In hindsight, the motor and blower were a lot more powerful combination then I expected.

However, I have chosen to have the motor refreashed and a bunch of other things done to get it right once and for all and I have in fact taken the whole car apart myself over the last three weeks. the ENTIRE suspension, gas tank and the motor was pulled on Sunday with some help.

Of course I'm scared to death about putting it all back together. However, I will have the respect of my peers, the pride of having done it myself and a lower line of credit balance then otherwise)

Would I do this again? NO (ie I will not do this second time)
Do I regret doing it? Yes and No (see next questoin)
What would I do differently or what would I advise someone in MY situation to do if they asked?
Put it on a truck, send it to Agostino Racing with a blank cheque and a rwhp objective. Period.

Thanks for sharing. I know there are TONS of guys out there who would do things differently and aren't concerned with helping others avoid making the same mistakes! :(

Ryan

My biggest mistake was buying my first mod:(

Originally posted by Jim S. '95 Z28
My biggest mistake was buying my first mod:(

:o the addiction.........:(

High HP blown car are never come cheap. So far, I have not made any bad mistake yet, because I have asked alot of questions and helped out from forum members. And I have clear goal where I want to be. So far, I have spent about $15k into the car that without any bad mistake yet. For those who has spent over $20K I believe it.




Bruce
93LT1 Conv w/ZF6
Blown D1-SC/N2O
ARE built 383ci/Stage II


http://www.burtronics.com/myvette/bv1.jpg

First of all, I am only at around 525 rwhp, this is all I need for now.
I have probably sunk around 12K into my car, that is just for parts alone, no labor. The supercharger and fuel system accounts for at least half of that amount.
I have made some small mistakes also, but it comes with the territory.

Spent $450 bucks for 24 pound injectors from TPIS, then a few years later, $400 for the 42 pounders. I purchased the injectors from Jack of Muscle Motors. I gave him $400 cash and he gave me no receipt. Fortunately, those injectors have been kick butt.

How about the jet chip, spent $230 on that, it is no use now and worth nothing.

I had the hypertech programmer, but was able to resell that.

I had the jacobs ignition, it was more expensive than MSD and it sucked, couldn't handle the blower.

I had the ATI 2 core intercooler, it was terrible. I was able to get rid of that for a measly $200 bucks.

I had the edelbrock shorties, they are now sitting my garage.

The parts I am most proud of & would recommend:
ATI supercharger & twin intercoolers
Fuel system, from tank to injectors
FLP headers
MSD ignition
Engine internal parts: hot cam kit, h-beam connecting rods, TRW pistons
Wolfe 6-pt roll bar

The parts I still need to go racing:
Moser 12-bolt...........$2500
Wheels and tires......$2000
helmet......................$300
5 pt harness.............$200

Well, I am not too far away.

Originally posted by EDS Z28
First of all, I am only at around 525 rwhp, this is all I need for now.
I have probably sunk around 12K into my car, that is just for parts alone, no labor. The supercharger and fuel system accounts for at least half of that amount.
I have made some small mistakes also, but it comes with the territory.

Spent $450 bucks for 24 pound injectors from TPIS, then a few years later, $400 for the 42 pounders. I purchased the injectors from Jack of Muscle Motors. I gave him $400 cash and he gave me no receipt. Fortunately, those injectors have been kick butt.

How about the jet chip, spent $230 on that, it is no use now and worth nothing.

I had the hypertech programmer, but was able to resell that.

I had the jacobs ignition, it was more expensive than MSD and it sucked, couldn't handle the blower.

I had the ATI 2 core intercooler, it was terrible. I was able to get rid of that for a measly $200 bucks.

I had the edelbrock shorties, they are now sitting my garage.

The parts I am most proud of & would recommend:
ATI supercharger & twin intercoolers
Fuel system, from tank to injectors
FLP headers
MSD ignition
Engine internal parts: hot cam kit, h-beam connecting rods, TRW pistons
Wolfe 6-pt roll bar

The parts I still need to go racing:
Moser 12-bolt...........$2500
Wheels and tires......$2000
helmet......................$300
5 pt harness.............$200

Well, I am not too far away.

At the shop today we added up what one of the customers had spent on his car to get it in the ~600rwhp range. He made a lot of mistakes by not listening to sound advice. The total is ~$60K! He has a very nice setup now, but that's how much you can spend!

Rich Krause

I got to thank you guys for keeping on responding to this. i've set a little budget for this project between what all of you guys have mentioned. I've been doing searches and just looking at other's combo's and will probably mimic one of those. Thank god for these message boards cause i'm sure most of us would have spent 3 times as much as we have already :)

Chris

ILL sell you my motor complete for 12k with supercharger, all the best of parts and makes 740rwhp at only 18 pnds boost with a 8-ribbed belt...motor and all parts are new.

My advice to you is start from the rear and make your way forward. It will save you a lot of down time and money fixing something that should not be fixed.

Good luck! When your done its a blast....

best bet is try http://www.lingenfelter.com/packagesfls1.asp, plus its under warranty.:p

Originally posted by Diggla
best bet is try http://www.lingenfelter.com/packagesfls1.asp, plus its under warranty.:p

Best bet to spend big $$$$$$$$$ (and I'm someone who has spent a lot on his car).

Rich Krause

Also when you buy used parts make sure they are the right ones. I bought a monoblade TB and it turned out to be for a TPI car. I am now trying to figure out how to rig it to work.

Well.. Right now I am under 9k on mine... and when I change my supercharger and Im finished with all that I want it will be ~14k... I have not made too many mistakes for now per se, the only one was the crappy cam I had, that is in sig and I went later with the XE... Labor has been very very little to me since I have done 95% of the labor myself...The big mistake I made was a small accident :mad: but... we are almost done...


The car will be great and I only want 500-550 rwhp... attainable... I have an inline pump but I think I'll need a new walbro or so...

Lets see how it goes...

Untill I resolve the fuel issue I will stay with only 5psi...

Here's some actual prices for my current 396 setup (around $20k total)

Of course that doesn't include the two 355's I blew up before going this route ;)

http://www.supercharger.net/members/david/enginecost.htm

Wow David, that is an impressive list of parts :eek:
Power doesn't come cheap, does it.
Ed

Cars, guns, cameras; I really need to find some cheaper hobbies :)

David<

Sorry to drag post back up but here goes...

The numbers I'm seeing on money spent are incredible! Incredibly high is what I mean. I must be missing something. How cheap can a 355 with forged internals and a 'mild' blower cam be done for(9.0ish compression)?
Used superchargers can be had for about $2-3k right? End goal here is 'only' 500ish rwhp. I just cant see the 10k-20k-30k and such amounts. Not trashing, just trying to figure out what I'm missing. Thanks :)



Jason

What are you missing??? that after you have done many things there are still many things missing...

Like different headers... different cam.. different supercharger to get to the power you want...

After its all set and done I will have 18k in just mods and the rest in other things like accidents (not my fault) etc etc etc...

Its not easy to have a driveable 600rwhp car... its simply not easy.. why? because if it where there would be factory cars like this.

Here is what i'm thinking 355 with 'mild cam' for <$2k blower $2-3k

Headers would definitely already be done before this was even thought about.

edit: and i'm talking 500ish rwhp

Missing...
Transmission
Converter/clutch
rear end
driveshaft
headers
fuel system


It can definitely be done for cheaper...it's called nitrous. ;)

My therapist told me to not think about how much I've spent on my car outside of "group!" hehe!! Personally, I think a crack cocaine addiction is less harmful than supercharged cars...both to your health and to your wallet!!

Here's what I've got in my car (LT4-398 (clone) Supercharged)...to the best of my memnory:

Eagle 3.875" stroke 4340 forged $450
6" Lunati ProMod rods $625
Diamond 12cc dish custom pistons $510
Cloyes double roller $ 90
Meizure Electric water pump $130
Speedpro file fit rings $120
AFR 220 76cc LT4 Race Ported heads $2300
Addition head port work $400
LT4 intake w/port work $350
BBK 58 MM throttlebody $300
ceramic coated long tube headers $900
Taylor wires $ 65
Comp. signiture pushrods $140
Comp-R roller lifters $220
Comp custom grind cam $275
Jesel Comp. shaft mount $1100
83# Fuel Injectors $440
Custom/modded fuel rails $ 65
Prototype Aeromotive AFPR $ free
MSD 6A ign. box $220
MSD Coil $ 60
Accell Gen. VII+ w/wideband $2100
billet crankshaft hub (keyed) $120
Custom ASP crank pulley $300
Custom supercharger bracket $ free
Procharger D1SC w/3.4" pulley $2200
Intercooler stock $800
intercolling tubing $300
twin intank Walbro fuel pumps $450
McLeod steel twin clutch $900
Corsa Exhaust $900
Custom wiring harness splice (dfi) $450
bearing (cam, rod, main) $200
balance rotating assmebly $350
bore, deck, clean block $280
splay main caps $500
arp bolts, etc. $300
gaskets $400
oil pan, pump, pickup $475
Misc. nuts, bolts sealant, coolant, etc. $200
Dynotuning $600
Engine evac system w/labor $200
Custom welded valve covers $500
Total $21,285

There are two things that I don't have listed here, which are (my car is a vette so some of my parts are different):

1. Labor--I probably have close to 240 hours (6 weeks) into car just doing the above items (doing layout and fab of the blower bracket was very time consuming)...shop time around here is about $45 per hour ($10,800 labor).

2. breaking stuff--I have a ZF transmission...when you break it, and at +700 rwhp you will break it eventually, it is going to be at least $3000 and that's if it is rebuildable (pull and install, shipping, parts and labor). A Dana-44 isn't cheap to replace or rebuild, either.

Other stuff includes:

wheels and tires $2500

ZR1 dash board (needed for the 8k tach) $450

gauges and pods $300

The cost of the car--'95 Corvette w/low miles, triple black, 6-speed, convertible--market value.

As you can see, it adds up pretty quick. However, it is a lot of fun. And, you get to say: "Being able to outrun a Hayabusa on the hiway...priceless!!"

Brand X
Luckily I have a t56... w/o dragstrip launches of 1.3 not going to break...

and... I do need a new clutch already... I never added the tires figures when I gave that guesstimate... It doesn't include the parts I have bought before and sold, just the ones currently installed... and since I have no aftermarket fuel injection im about the same price you are ;)

Currently im adding price for a new set of heads I want to buy to make it a totally killer combo...

Question: is that 700rwhp on pump gas?

Originally posted by mongse_1
Missing...
Transmission
Converter/clutch
rear end
driveshaft
headers
fuel system


It can definitely be done for cheaper...it's called nitrous. ;)

Also missing: extensive reprogramming/tuning of the stock PCM along with a low impedance converter box, or an aftermarket ECU. And besides, most of the people here have more (in some cases a lot more) than 500rwhp. Not to sneer at 500rwhp, but that's not a lot by current standards.

Also missing: brakes, suspension, roll bar/cage. "Used" stuff is often being sold for a reason and may be more expensive in the end. To answer the 500hp question, it's a lot cheaper to build a 500hp than a 650-700hp combo. Maybe $12-15K instead of $20-30K+.

Rich Krause

hate to chime in late im in the same boat

383 (10.5 to 1)
d1sc 15 lbs boost
set of cnc ported lt1 heads and intake
pro built 4l60e
3200 stall vig.converter
alum. driveshaft
moser 12 bolt
50 lb msd injectors
hooker long tubes
mufflex 4" exhaust no cats
aeromotive eliminator fuel pump
all stainless fuel line
more than i care to list

total bill in excess of 30,000

now i have a car i hate to drive hate spending 5.00 a gallon for gas and now have to spend about 5,000 to get some manners into this thing( afr heads,new cam,new gaskets,pulling the engine ) just be careful when you pick your parts and talk with a compitent engine builder and tuner and you can save yourself a lot of money

Originally posted by rskrause
Also missing: extensive reprogramming/tuning of the stock PCM along with a low impedance converter box, or an aftermarket ECU. And besides, most of the people here have more (in some cases a lot more) than 500rwhp. Not to sneer at 500rwhp, but that's not a lot by current standards.

Also missing: brakes, suspension, roll bar/cage. "Used" stuff is often being sold for a reason and may be more expensive in the end. To answer the 500hp question, it's a lot cheaper to build a 500hp than a 650-700hp combo. Maybe $12-15K instead of $20-30K+.

Rich Krause

I understand completely how the pricing is exponential for the power you want. With a T56 I figure I'll have to do the rear end once i start running drag radials, I'm not much of a track junkie as much as some. I'm hoping I can manage most everything for under $6k and have ~500rwhp and still a good daily driver.
Engine 355 Forged Pistons, rods: $2k
Still not sure what charger: $2-3k(probably be used though)
and hopefully $1k will cover any extras....numbers sure do add up fast though :D
I know I will end up having unforeseen problems but hopefully not destroy my bank completely :)

after 550rwhp.. the HP/$ starts to rise pretty FAST!

In my case, since i have become pretty good with the stock PCM, I tune it myself and have tuned many others... so I save on that fee :D :D :D

Originally posted by SaxRulez
I understand completely how the pricing is exponential for the power you want. With a T56 I figure I'll have to do the rear end once i start running drag radials, I'm not much of a track junkie as much as some. I'm hoping I can manage most everything for under $6k and have ~500rwhp and still a good daily driver.
Engine 355 Forged Pistons, rods: $2k
Still not sure what charger: $2-3k(probably be used though)
and hopefully $1k will cover any extras....numbers sure do add up fast though :D
I know I will end up having unforeseen problems but hopefully not destroy my bank completely :)

In all honesty have your ever driven a car with that much hp? The reason I ask is because you will be surprised how much a car with 500 rwhp will pull. I think $6000 is pushing your expectation. I am guessing you are assuming $1000 will cover tuning, plug, wires, igntion box, scan tool and gages. Is this car going to be driven everyday? Sorry if I missed this but are your heads currently ported, also are you going running an aftermarket cam?

actually 500rwhp are not that impresive..

Going from a pretty much stock car to 500 rwhp is impressive. If 500 rwhp is not impressive to you then what is? :)

I went from a honda that had about 80hp to the wheels to my car at 393 at the beginning and I was unimpressed.. changed supercharger and hit 501.. TOTALLY unimpressed..

Intercooler ... 555 unimpressed
more boost.. 606 and ... ONCE!!! only once.. was I impressed with the way it pulled to 150! only once.. never again was I impressed...

im looking for more now... this is addicting really...

I expected that when I hit 500rwhp (my first goal) it was going to be flying!!! boring really... On the scantool I once measured 100-130 in 3.9s which IRL could have been a tad more... but still its fast.. i dont know... I just say 500 is not enough for most people when they are modding their car at that ammount of $

now its a bit of fun.. but... not always

I've ridden to many fast cars, this has definetely been the fastest... but I dont know... impressive was my bike

heh, by the time i get all of this done, i'll be so old it wont matter anyway...sigh. heads i'm hoping to manage stock. we'll see. cam i'm probably going with something mild when I go to 355. Yeah im starting to see the numbers come out a little higher than i was expecting. :(

This equation is pretty accurate for mods.....

Double the budget, triple the timeframe.

Anyone that has not not extensively built their car can't understand this.

Jason

im obviously speaking from inexperience, and im sure you guys who have already done this can tell me whats wrong with this idea

buy a race-ready rolling chassis
ive seen a few really nice 4th gen ones go for 4-5k, that eliminates the time/money spent on putting the power to the ground. ive seen them come with a 9" or 12bolt already in it, sometimes even a tranny.

drop an already dyno-tuned motor in it
buy a BBC from a reputable drag engine builder with about 650-700hp, turn key and dyno tuned for about $11-12k..........could throw nitrous on it if you really wanted i guess.

build one hell of an auto, or beef up the M6 $2-3k

obviously theres a few grand needed for misc stuff

Originally posted by got_hp?
im obviously speaking from inexperience, and im sure you guys who have already done this can tell me whats wrong with this idea

buy a race-ready rolling chassis
ive seen a few really nice 4th gen ones go for 4-5k, that eliminates the time/money spent on putting the power to the ground. ive seen them come with a 9" or 12bolt already in it, sometimes even a tranny.

drop an already dyno-tuned motor in it
buy a BBC from a reputable drag engine builder with about 650-700hp, turn key and dyno tuned for about $11-12k..........could throw nitrous on it if you really wanted i guess.

build one hell of an auto, or beef up the M6 $2-3k

obviously theres a few grand needed for misc stuff

Sounds too good to be true ...

I just cut a cheque for US$16,000 for my Small block build up and R&R, went with middle of the road stuff, good quality, but not top of the line. Not cheap, but no where near what Lingenfelter would be charging.

Then there is the daily driver vs strip car ... a car that is street and user friendly is going to cost much more than a purpose built strip car.

I'm into mine for around US$55k
US$21k for the car new and US$34k in modifications, and I'm not even trying to get the car to "hook", add another 10 BIG for that.

Not quite to 600rwhp yet, but with a T-trim, I think I'll be mighty close, and the car is still capable of a cross country jaunt, though it does attract some attention when you blip the throttle on shut down at the shopping center.... :eek:

Just another .02 werth

Hope this helps

LWM

I don't even want to add it up, but its all of 12-15k and I have yet to dyno or make a pass on my new 355 because the of this little deployment thing. Its nice to pay off the bills and have money for my next mods but its not fun to be gone and not able to see the results of the boxes waiting for me at home. I have a street twin, aftercooler, brand band tube, and a soon to be rebuilt S-trim with a new 2.95 pulley waiting to go on in late feburary.

I have at least 35k in the TA when I started the 03 projects I thought I will be where i want to be with another 10K well its 04 and I dumped about 13k into the car last year and I'm still sitting here thinking well if i put 10k more into it this year i will be their. their is always something else you need or something new to try. I'm begining to think that 10k is the minimum yearly investment not the end!

I even had both of my F-bodies broke at the same time this year man that was fun! I guess I deserve it for having a low 11 second street car the SS and a goal of a 9 seconds for the TA.

I think I'll go get one of my guns now thanks for making me think about how much money I've spent!!!

Just kidding :)

Jeff
96 SS BLOWN
96 TA 396 D1

AhHhhhhhhhhhh

make the numbers stop!....brain overload!

Originally posted by The Highlander
I went from a honda that had about 80hp to the wheels to my car at 393 at the beginning and I was unimpressed.. changed supercharger and hit 501.. TOTALLY unimpressed..

Intercooler ... 555 unimpressed
more boost.. 606 and ... ONCE!!! only once.. was I impressed with the way it pulled to 150! only once.. never again was I impressed...

im looking for more now... this is addicting really...

I expected that when I hit 500rwhp (my first goal) it was going to be flying!!! boring really... On the scantool I once measured 100-130 in 3.9s which IRL could have been a tad more... but still its fast.. i dont know... I just say 500 is not enough for most people when they are modding their car at that ammount of $

now its a bit of fun.. but... not always

I've ridden to many fast cars, this has definetely been the fastest... but I dont know... impressive was my bike

I know what you mean. 500 rwhp just isn't what it seems. My friends Novi'd stang made 480 and it was ho-hum. Another friend had a 96 Cobra w/Vortech - right at 500 rwhp, fun, but not impressive. He just got an 03 Cobra with a KB blower, 550 rwhp, just not what I'd thought it would be.

Now, he also has an SN95 with an ATI D1 charged stroker. It made 585 rwhp, and it IS impressive. I think the main thing is torque tho. It has over 100 lb/ft. more torque than even the 03. 600 rwtq is where its at. (When its also got nearly 600 rwhp to go with it.) The 03 only have 490 rwtq, completely different feeling.

I have had my 95 LT1 M6 TA since Sept of 99. In that time I have done almost 30 mods that have cost any significant money. I have not yet started on the serious hp buildup. I still have the 123k mile stock longblock in the car, with which I put down about 350/350 rwhp/trq. I have gone by the mantra of start at the rear and build forward. I have (give or take) 10-12k in the car.

Moser 12 bolt (2500)
Denny's 3.5 driveshaft 500
Mcleod Street twin 904
FLP long tubes 1300
Wolfe Racecraft cage 600ish
self ported heads with larger valves ~600


You get the idea. I have saved money because I haven't had to buy parts twice. The parts that I have now are serious overkill for my CURRENT power levels. They will be ADEQUATE for my power goals.

The thing that will get you the most power for the least money and still remain reliable and fun is a PLAN. Get one, borrow one, or make one, and then stick to it.


As for all you other whiners about $$ and hobbies.

Cars: 67 Chevelle, $30,000+ into it plus I need about 6k more
and that doesn't count labor
79 Drag camino: this month I will spend another $1500 on it.
daily driver 81 GMC: dosn't deserve a dime :)
70Camino: restoration= money pit
36 Chevy= future resoration/turbo car $$$$$


Guns: some like the bling-bling, I like the bang bang, I average 3k per year

Sports: I am a competative powerlifter. I compete 3-5 times per year costing about a grand a time.


Money: You can't earn it fast enough, and you can't take it with you.

BBB