Took apart T-56...made a mess

i took both covers off to see if i could see anything wrong with it. some little pieces of metal in the magnet filter but i did not see any chipped gears. also the whole bottem of the inner casing was covered in black goo. is that bad?

i cant put the the covers back on due to the internals coming off alignment...but berfore i put them back on i want to make this tranny able to hold about 700hp at the crank. im going to buy that book tremec makes for rebuilding the t-56 but exaclty what parts will i be buying to make it capable?

------------------
Red 1994 Formula (V8,M6,3.23)
K&N fipk,MSD coil,Hooker Exaust,SLP 1 3/4 headers,LT4 KM,CAM 220/229 .547/.544 112LS,Taylor Wires OVC,160°T-Stat,LT1 Edit,ZR1 rims 315's,EGR!,AIR!,Meziere H2O Pump,3"Cut Out,Power slot rotors,Earl's Brake Lines,Mac Girdle,!CAT,M6 Conversion,SCR SFCs,!MAF,MAC LCAs,Kirban Shifter,!ALT,200 Amp Alt,7/16's 1.5RRs,NGK TR55's,SLP STB,Polyurethane bushings everywhere,SLP Bilstiens,Susp Tech springs #63045
------------------
Best 1/4 13.47@103.87 (no where near current)
Installing:SLP flywheel+RPS clutch,3.73's,Auburn Posi,light weight starter, MS PA K-member+A-arms,Trans Am body, LS1 drive shaft

There are people making that much power with stock internals. It's a pretty strong tranny, the only real upgrades are the cast iron shift forks.

BTW the Helm manual for the 94 has a detailed T56 section, you might want to get that since it contains everything for your car.

Mine is holding up to over 700rwhp and over 800rwt. If it breaks I will strongly consider a G-force or a Lenco since I like to shift! The Lenco is a superb box, but it's huge and would require major floor pan mods. The street version is rated at 1,200hp! G-force rates their street 5-speed at 1,000hp.

As far the T-56 goes I am unaware of any useful upgrades. I have read about cryogenic treatments, etc. But if mine breaks I think it will be time to replace it with something stronger.

------------------
'95 Z-28 383 with Vortech, nitrous, etc.
"1FASTZ28"

Every time I've looked at the Lenco, the info I got was that it wouldn't survive for more than about 15 minutes on the street without an oil cooling system being designed and added to it. I know George B. looked at it, and they told him the same thing. One of the magazines was going to do a Pro Street S-10 for the Hot Rod Power Tour with a Lenco 6-speed, but I never saw any more about it. Would be interesting to see if anyone every managed to get one to survive extended street use.... and the size and weight would appear to be a major handicap...

But having a half-dozen shifter levers sticking up out of the console would be a real attention getter.... http://web.camaross.com/bb/biggrin.gif

------------------
Fred
------------------
94 Formula A3: 381/TH400/N2O
Detailed Mod's List (http://members.aol.com/InjuneerZZ/Mod.htm)

11.513@115.59 on motor; 11.162@127.67, 1.643 60' on a 125-shot. Going with a 275-shot this year

Black goo doesn't sound good to me. It should be as clean as a watch in side. Black goo suggests that the friction material is gone from the syncro cones. I'm no T56 expert by a long shot, but it doesn't sound good to me.

BTW, I have information that says that it is possible to install a Viper output shaft in an F-body T56. Requires remachining the tail housing, new Viper shaft, viper bearing, viper seal, and rebroach the VSS reluctor with new snap rings.

Anybody done this for real?? or is this just more smoke & mirrors? If it can be done I'll give it a try aftery next boom.

------------------
94 Formula M6 4.10 Strange 12 bolt Spohn Subs,LCA,LCA Brackets, & PHR,Moroso Cold Air, B&M Ripper w/ T handle/w switch , Hurst Line Loc,ET Streets, FLP's with B&B Triflow's, Taylor Wires
Street Twin, Spool
CC306, R lifters, Pro Mag 1.6's
Cloyes Double
Protune by me (Protune?)

3710# Pig Fat Race Weight
335 RWHP best 60' - 1.76
Best 1/8 - 8.05 @ 86.5
No 1/4 times yet

SABLT194 - I'm very interested in the upgrade to the viper input shaft, the machining required, etc. Do you have a page or more info on that, or possibly email it? The only upgrades I've heard of are the steel (billet, maybe?) shift forks.




------------------
--
Andris Skulte
Skulte Performance Designs
Z28tt-89 IROC T56 DFI Twin Turbo
http://www.skulte.com

Give D&D Performance a call...

http://www.ddperformance.com/GM%20T56.htm

------------------
Hear LT1 cam WAVs, DIY head porting: members.cox.net/gmarengo (http://members.cox.net/gmarengo)

'95, !CAGS, CAI, ForceII, Hooker Shorties, 14.2@103

The mystery Viper upgrade that I've heard about is for the mainshaft (output) not the input shaft. I've talked to D&D and the fella I talked to knew nothing about a mainshaft upgrade to the Viper piece. The only one I know that says it can be done is John @ Donato Engineering. I'm just curious to see if anyone else has already done this. I hate to be Serial Number 00000001

Thanks
Steve

------------------
94 Formula M6 4.10 Strange 12 bolt Spohn Subs,LCA,LCA Brackets, & PHR,Moroso Cold Air, B&M Ripper w/ T handle/w switch , Hurst Line Loc,ET Streets, FLP's with B&B Triflow's, Taylor Wires
Street Twin, Spool
CC306, R lifters, Pro Mag 1.6's
Cloyes Double
Protune by me (Protune?)

3710# Pig Fat Race Weight
335 RWHP best 60' - 1.76
Best 1/8 - 8.05 @ 86.5
No 1/4 times yet

John Donato is upgrading the shaft in the f-body t56's to the viper ones. I slmost had him do mine while it was there but he said you only need it with big 800+ hp and a WIDE set of slicks. Mine is a street car so I wasn't worried. He did however upgrade my synchrs to the viper style and the pads to kevlar w/ steel shift forks. I also have a Jebco trans pump for hard driving and going REALLY fast. I think for the pads and synchros he charges $700 change and up from there with more upgrades. Drop him an e-mail @ donatoeng@aol.com. Good luck.

Doug

------------------
97 WS6, Arctic on Tan Leather, Aftercooled, 383, AFR, 6 Spd, all the goodies!

Interesting idea, especially with the new (Oct 2002) issue of Road and Track article on the 2003 Viper:

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">The Tremec T-56 transmission still has the same ratios,[same as 4th gens and the non-Z06 Vettes, but with a 3.07:1 rear axle ratio] but its gears have an upgraded heat treatment that along with the a new one-piece mainshaft ensures long-term durability</font>

I wonder if this new and improved "one-piece mainshaft" can be machined to fit a LT1 T56?

I've sent mail to John to see what the benifit is to the current Viper mainshaft, and to see if he has plans on trying out this technique on the 2003 Viper one-piece mainshaft.

(BTW the 5-page review of the 2003 Viper is damn informative... way beyond what I normally expect out of R&T. It's pages 108 to 113, with one page dedicated to a full page add for Valentine One radar locaters http://web.camaross.com/bb/smile.gif... talk about product placement)

[This message has been edited by Steve in Seattle (edited September 06, 2002).]

Steve,

Keep us posted on what you learn. I'm still interested in making some changes.

Steve

------------------
94 Formula M6 4.10 Strange 12 bolt Spohn Subs,LCA,LCA Brackets, & PHR,Moroso Cold Air, B&M Ripper w/ T handle/w switch , Hurst Line Loc,ET Streets, FLP's with B&B Triflow's, Taylor Wires
Street Twin, Spool
CC306, R lifters, Pro Mag 1.6's
Cloyes Double
Protune by me (Protune?)

3710# Pig Fat Race Weight
335 RWHP best 60' - 1.76
Best 1/8 - 8.05 @ 86.5
No 1/4 times yet

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Steve in Seattle:
I wonder if this new and improved "one-piece mainshaft" can be machined to fit a LT1 T56?
</font>

Uh, as far as I know, all T56s have "one-piece mainshafts" (although mine may be downgraded to the two-piece version when I take the car to the track tonight http://web.camaross.com/bb/wink.gif).

When I rebuilt my trans, I installed the new carbon blocking rings (more durable than the stock organic-based blocking ring material, but they tend to provide a notchy feel, especially when the trans is cold) and the cast-iron 3-4 shift fork (whoohoo - finally installed a Viper part on my car). The upgrade to the Viper mainshaft doesn't sound cost-effective to me.


------------------
Eric Bryant
'96 Impala SS (LT4 396, T56, "firm" suspension)
'96 GMC K2500 (parts hauler/dune runner)
'92 Roadmaster wagon (winter beater)
'01 Honda Accord LX V6 Coupe (wife's car)
http://www.bryantperformance.com

See, that's what I was wondering. Maybe the "one-piece" part isn't so important. Maybe R&T could have been more precise:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">The Tremec T-56 transmission still has the same ratios, but its gears have an upgraded heat treatment that along with the new mainshaft design, ensures long-term durability</font>

Still waiting on a responce from John Donato on the advantages/difference of the Viper mainshaft (and wether he has any information on the new Viper T56 that would be useful to us).

As for the heat-treating, you could probably do one better by going to the right cryo-shop. The good ones can heat treat objects to ~600*F (I think) and in one transition cool it down to cryo-levels. Apparently thats about the most you can do with a temperature-based treatment.

Might even be able to talk to a performance coating company before the cryo-treatment and see if you can get any journals/bearings anti-friction coated as well.

Just depends how much money you wanta spend I guess. If John Donato only reccomends the Viper mainshaft conversion for 800+hp levels, I think I'll save that money for a 12-bolt instead. http://web.camaross.com/bb/smile.gif

Since last positng to this thread I drove my friends 5.0 on the return road at the strip. The car is occasionally street driven and has a 4-speed G-Force transmission. The thing is quite "notchy" when you try to shift it slowly but if you shift it fast it shifts smoothly and fast. They also make a five-speed and it can be used continuously, as in street or road race use.

Top gear is always 1:1, so for street use with my low-rev setup I'd need to go to 2.73's! But it could be made to work. The 4-speed is compact and light, I easily picked it up and I have bad back. The five-speed is bulkier, but probably no bigger than the T-56. I haven't gone so far as to make any measurements for possible fitment as it's unlikely I will need to seriously contemplate this conversion. The T-56 is still holding up to &gt;700rwhp in my &gt;4,000lb car and it's likely that this is the last year the car will see the track. I am seriously contemplating a race car for next year. If the T-56 breaks and I want to keep racing the Camaro with slicks I think the G-Force will be the way to go. The 5-speed is a bit less than $5K.

Rich Krause

------------------
'95 Z-28 383: Vortech, nitrous, etc.
AIM: rstevenkrause

Since last posting to this thread, I broke the mainshaft on my T56. My car makes slightly less than 400 RWHP, weighs around 4400 lbs, and I was on full-tread street tires. I'm thinking that there was probably a manufacturing defect.

------------------
Eric Bryant
'96 Impala SS (LT4 396, T56, "firm" suspension)
'96 GMC K2500 (parts hauler/dune runner)
'92 Roadmaster wagon (winter beater)
'01 Honda Accord LX V6 Coupe (wife's car)
http://www.bryantperformance.com

I broke my output shaft last night at the track. 6200rpm launch on ET streets and snap, it let go. I think it's time for a th400 swap because the lack of economical choices to upgrade the T56 to be reliable at the drag strip.

Matt

------------------
96 Camaro Z28 6spd., custom viper red with pearlcoat paintjob, 355 LT1 11.5-1, GTP stage 2 LT4 heads/intake, GTP-6 cam, full cage, moser 9" with 4.11's, and full suspension. Best so far after shakedown runs (hit rev limiter in the top of 3rd)...still needs tuning and suspension tweaking.
1.658 60', 11.886@116.05, 7.593@91.33 1/8 mile
Best mph 117.31
The Z under construction (http://udel.edu/~mattbaer)
92 Talon TSI 5spd. AWD Best E.T.-13.753@98.30mph
1.885 60ft.@13lbs boost--- For Sale!

I got a very interesting responce from John today. http://web.camaross.com/bb/smile.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">----Original Message Follows----
From: Donatoeng@aol.com
To: sjwalker@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: T56 rebuild
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 20:51:40 EDT

The article is somewhat misinformed. The actual change to the 2003 Viper Trans is a one piece cluster shaft / gear. In the 92 to 2002 units the cluster gear is two piece where the 5-6 gear is shaft is locked to the main cluster gear by lugs. On the new unit the cluster gear has a shaft extending out of the back and the 5 and 6 gear are pressed on. This is copied from the Viper GTS-R race trans. We have seen on occasion the lugs broken off associated with a no 5-6 or reverse complaint.

The Viper output shaft conversion was developed in response to the F-body output shaft breaking off forward of the slip yoke spline. This conversion requires machining your extension housing and a specially modified Viper output shaft. You will also need a Viper propshaft yoke which uses a 1350 Dana joint. This conversion is $485.00.

We also have Vespel shift fork pads. These are the same as used in the Viper GTS-R race trans and are the only ones that will with stand the 24hrs of LeMans in a Viper and install cooler line fittings for direct head set lube.

If you have any other questions or wish to purchase components or utilize and of the services we offer for the T-56 please contact us.

Thanks,

John
Donato Engineering</font>

hmmmm... Interesting http://web.camaross.com/bb/smile.gif

I have found many upgrades to the T-56

I have built them in Vipers,Corvettes AND F-Bodys.

I have not seen a new Cobra unit yet but being the shop that does the local frod trannys i am sure I will http://web.camaross.com/bb/wink.gif

The Viper Out put/main shaft would be a great upgrade for ANY hard launching car. It is online with going from 28 splaine axles to 33 spline axles.

i HIGHLY recomend using the Carbon Synchro's in ANY re-build.

FORGET about using any Z06 part. they are specific it the Z06 unit. Now you can put a Z06 unit in a Covette but not much else. They Z06 has some of the trickest parts of all..

Using the Viper parts are easy. most are a direct swap. When I order parts for Vipers many come with GM numbers on them http://web.camaross.com/bb/wink.gif

The biggest upgrade to any T-56 F-Body is the "Drill mod" http://web.camaross.com/bb/wink.gif best bang for buck out there and will usually fix the no reverse problems http://web.camaross.com/bb/wink.gif

Good luck all

------------------
Ellis
Team Captain
Team North West F-Body
www.teamnwfbody.org (http://www.teamnwfbody.org)

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Steve in Seattle:
I got a very interesting responce from John today. http://web.camaross.com/bb/smile.gif

hmmmm... Interesting http://web.camaross.com/bb/smile.gif</font>

Very http://web.camaross.com/bb/smile.gif Thanks for posting this! I just sent some email off to John concerning this modification.

Ellis, what is this "drill mod" you speak of? Is this the modification of the orifice in the clutch line?

------------------
Eric Bryant
'96 Impala SS (LT4 396, T56, "firm" suspension)
'96 GMC K2500 (parts hauler/dune runner)
'92 Roadmaster wagon (winter beater)
'01 Honda Accord LX V6 Coupe (wife's car)
http://www.bryantperformance.com

[This message has been edited by Eric Bryant (edited September 10, 2002).]

Yes that is the Mod http://web.camaross.com/bb/wink.gif

I was tired last night Sorry. Make sure you get the mentioned 3-4 Shift fork and inserts http://web.camaross.com/bb/wink.gif

------------------
Ellis
Team Captain
Team North West F-Body
www.teamnwfbody.org (http://www.teamnwfbody.org)

What is John's phone number?...I need to get a hold of him. If that Viper output shaft upgrade is true, I'll be sending my trans to him on mon. I used the form on his website to have a sales rep contact me but was wondering why there is no phone number listed to contact him. Anyone have it?
Thanks
Matt

Well, here's John's contact information, some prices for parts, and a quick explanation of the LT1 vs. Viper syncro collars:

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">----Original Message Follows----
From: Donatoeng@aol.com
To: sjwalker@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: T56 rebuild
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 21:38:13 EDT

Yes, The main/output shaft conversion includes remachining your extension housing. The housing has to be machined to accept the Viper output shaft bushing and seal which is larger than the F-Body pieces.
The cost for the components you requested are:
3-4 Shift fork (Cast Steel) $60.00
Vespel Fork Pads (1-6 gears) $400.00 or 1-4 gears $266.67
Viper Carbon Kevlar friction lined synchro rings (1-6 gears) $174.00
All prices are plus shipping/handling and insurance.

Your transmission has the GM Paper lined synchro rings. Reverse is the only brass synchro ring in the trans. If you have any other questions or want to order any of the components please contact us.

Thanks, John
Donato Engineering
2934 E. Maple
Milford, MI 48381
248-676-8554</font>

[This message has been edited by Steve in Seattle (edited September 10, 2002).]

Just for comparison, here's what D&D Performance has to say about us GM T56 guys (they're also located in MI, so S&H costs would be about the same):

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">GM T-56 owners: We stock the full line of T56 parts for your transmission, don't pay dealership price's. Give us a call (248)735-6220

T56 Syncro kit (includes 1,2 inner, 1,2 outer, 3,4 & 5,6 & Reverse) $229

T56 Bearing Kit (includes all the bearing's and race's) $199

Upgraded T56 Steel 3,4 Shift Fork $49

T56 Gears & Slider assembly's in stock call for pricing

GM Aftermarket T56 (Bolts to 4 spd. bellhousing) $1999

Rebuilt GM T56 Transmission's 94-02 $1799+core

We can also rebuild your transmission $250 labor plus parts

(248) 735-6220
www.ddperformance.com (http://www.ddperformance.com)</font>

[This message has been edited by Steve in Seattle (edited September 10, 2002).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by OneFlyn95z28:

i HIGHLY recomend using the Carbon Synchro's in ANY re-build.
</font>

So I'm guessing these synchros will outlast the oem ones correct? Cause if I have to change the damn 1/2/3/4th gear synchros again I'm going to go automatic!!!!

Also I noticed that D&D's synchro kit is more expensive. Are they carbon? Who has the best carbon synchro kit?

Thanx, Rob

Originally posted by rskrause
Since last positng to this thread I drove my friends 5.0 on the return road at the strip. The car is occasionally street driven and has a 4-speed G-Force transmission. The thing is quite "notchy" when you try to shift it slowly but if you shift it fast it shifts smoothly and fast. They also make a five-speed and it can be used continuously, as in street or road race use.

Top gear is always 1:1, so for street use with my low-rev setup I'd need to go to 2.73's! But it could be made to work. The 4-speed is compact and light, I easily picked it up and I have bad back. The five-speed is bulkier, but probably no bigger than the T-56. I haven't gone so far as to make any measurements for possible fitment as it's unlikely I will need to seriously contemplate this conversion. The T-56 is still holding up to &gt;700rwhp in my &gt;4,000lb car and it's likely that this is the last year the car will see the track. I am seriously contemplating a race car for next year. If the T-56 breaks and I want to keep racing the Camaro with slicks I think the G-Force will be the way to go. The 5-speed is a bit less than $5K.

Rich Krause

------------------
'95 Z-28 383: Vortech, nitrous, etc.
AIM: rstevenkrause

Rich does the G-force work with the stock style clutch or does that price include a clutch as well? Im approching your possition, maybe one more year with the t56. However it held up to 700+hp this year, but no track use.

Good info Steve! thanks!;)

Originally posted by sleeperz28
Rich does the G-force work with the stock style clutch or does that price include a clutch as well? Im approching your possition, maybe one more year with the t56. However it held up to 700+hp this year, but no track use.

I haven't thought about a clutch with a G-Force. Just a guess is that a different clutch would be needed.

Rich Krause

Originally posted by Rob94hawk
So I'm guessing these synchros will outlast the oem ones correct? Cause if I have to change the damn 1/2/3/4th gear synchros again I'm going to go automatic!!!!

Also I noticed that D&D's synchro kit is more expensive. Are they carbon? Who has the best carbon synchro kit?

Thanx, Rob

I'm looking for synchros too. Tell me more about these carbon ones!

okay guys how many of you are pushing 550+ torque?
that what i want to get with a BB. if you are pushing that, any speacial mods to the T-56 to get it to handle that? if i'm not wrong the muncie can hold that. what are the big diff between the muncie and the t-56 input shaft. how often does input shafts break on you guys and at what range of torque?
is there a year t-56 you guys prefer?

please respond really need to make a decisions soon.
THANKS.........

Albert R.

NO ONE KNOWS ANYTHING ????

COME ON!!!!!

Does anyone know where to get a replacment input for a t-56??
if one broke would it be replacable (sp).


please respond???

Albert R.

I'm pushing only ~450 ft-lbs of torque through my (now broken) T56.

You can indeed get new input shafts, if required - your friendly GM parts department will supply you with one, as will the transmission rebuilders mentioned in this thread.