Took apart T-56...made a mess
Registered User
Joined: Sep 1998
Posts: 458
From: Newark, DE.
I broke my output shaft last night at the track. 6200rpm launch on ET streets and snap, it let go. I think it's time for a th400 swap because the lack of economical choices to upgrade the T56 to be reliable at the drag strip.
Matt
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96 Camaro Z28 6spd., custom viper red with pearlcoat paintjob, 355 LT1 11.5-1, GTP stage 2 LT4 heads/intake, GTP-6 cam, full cage, moser 9" with 4.11's, and full suspension. Best so far after shakedown runs (hit rev limiter in the top of 3rd)...still needs tuning and suspension tweaking.
1.658 60', 11.886@116.05, 7.593@91.33 1/8 mile
Best mph 117.31
The Z under construction
92 Talon TSI 5spd. AWD Best E.T.-13.753@98.30mph
1.885 60ft.@13lbs boost--- For Sale!
Matt
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96 Camaro Z28 6spd., custom viper red with pearlcoat paintjob, 355 LT1 11.5-1, GTP stage 2 LT4 heads/intake, GTP-6 cam, full cage, moser 9" with 4.11's, and full suspension. Best so far after shakedown runs (hit rev limiter in the top of 3rd)...still needs tuning and suspension tweaking.
1.658 60', 11.886@116.05, 7.593@91.33 1/8 mile
Best mph 117.31
The Z under construction
92 Talon TSI 5spd. AWD Best E.T.-13.753@98.30mph
1.885 60ft.@13lbs boost--- For Sale!
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 1,445
From: Seattle, WA
I got a very interesting responce from John today. 
hmmmm... Interesting
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">----Original Message Follows----
From: Donatoeng@aol.com
To: sjwalker@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: T56 rebuild
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 20:51:40 EDT
The article is somewhat misinformed. The actual change to the 2003 Viper Trans is a one piece cluster shaft / gear. In the 92 to 2002 units the cluster gear is two piece where the 5-6 gear is shaft is locked to the main cluster gear by lugs. On the new unit the cluster gear has a shaft extending out of the back and the 5 and 6 gear are pressed on. This is copied from the Viper GTS-R race trans. We have seen on occasion the lugs broken off associated with a no 5-6 or reverse complaint.
The Viper output shaft conversion was developed in response to the F-body output shaft breaking off forward of the slip yoke spline. This conversion requires machining your extension housing and a specially modified Viper output shaft. You will also need a Viper propshaft yoke which uses a 1350 Dana joint. This conversion is $485.00.
We also have Vespel shift fork pads. These are the same as used in the Viper GTS-R race trans and are the only ones that will with stand the 24hrs of LeMans in a Viper and install cooler line fittings for direct head set lube.
If you have any other questions or wish to purchase components or utilize and of the services we offer for the T-56 please contact us.
Thanks,
John
Donato Engineering</font>
From: Donatoeng@aol.com
To: sjwalker@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: T56 rebuild
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 20:51:40 EDT
The article is somewhat misinformed. The actual change to the 2003 Viper Trans is a one piece cluster shaft / gear. In the 92 to 2002 units the cluster gear is two piece where the 5-6 gear is shaft is locked to the main cluster gear by lugs. On the new unit the cluster gear has a shaft extending out of the back and the 5 and 6 gear are pressed on. This is copied from the Viper GTS-R race trans. We have seen on occasion the lugs broken off associated with a no 5-6 or reverse complaint.
The Viper output shaft conversion was developed in response to the F-body output shaft breaking off forward of the slip yoke spline. This conversion requires machining your extension housing and a specially modified Viper output shaft. You will also need a Viper propshaft yoke which uses a 1350 Dana joint. This conversion is $485.00.
We also have Vespel shift fork pads. These are the same as used in the Viper GTS-R race trans and are the only ones that will with stand the 24hrs of LeMans in a Viper and install cooler line fittings for direct head set lube.
If you have any other questions or wish to purchase components or utilize and of the services we offer for the T-56 please contact us.
Thanks,
John
Donato Engineering</font>
Registered User
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 1,431
From: Pacific North West
I have found many upgrades to the T-56
I have built them in Vipers,Corvettes AND F-Bodys.
I have not seen a new Cobra unit yet but being the shop that does the local frod trannys i am sure I will
The Viper Out put/main shaft would be a great upgrade for ANY hard launching car. It is online with going from 28 splaine axles to 33 spline axles.
i HIGHLY recomend using the Carbon Synchro's in ANY re-build.
FORGET about using any Z06 part. they are specific it the Z06 unit. Now you can put a Z06 unit in a Covette but not much else. They Z06 has some of the trickest parts of all..
Using the Viper parts are easy. most are a direct swap. When I order parts for Vipers many come with GM numbers on them
The biggest upgrade to any T-56 F-Body is the "Drill mod" best bang for buck out there and will usually fix the no reverse problems
Good luck all
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Ellis
Team Captain
Team North West F-Body
www.teamnwfbody.org
I have built them in Vipers,Corvettes AND F-Bodys.
I have not seen a new Cobra unit yet but being the shop that does the local frod trannys i am sure I will
The Viper Out put/main shaft would be a great upgrade for ANY hard launching car. It is online with going from 28 splaine axles to 33 spline axles.
i HIGHLY recomend using the Carbon Synchro's in ANY re-build.
FORGET about using any Z06 part. they are specific it the Z06 unit. Now you can put a Z06 unit in a Covette but not much else. They Z06 has some of the trickest parts of all..
Using the Viper parts are easy. most are a direct swap. When I order parts for Vipers many come with GM numbers on them
The biggest upgrade to any T-56 F-Body is the "Drill mod"
best bang for buck out there and will usually fix the no reverse problems Good luck all
------------------
Ellis
Team Captain
Team North West F-Body
www.teamnwfbody.org
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,400
From: Michigan's left coast
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Steve in Seattle:
I got a very interesting responce from John today.
hmmmm... Interesting</font>
I got a very interesting responce from John today.
hmmmm... Interesting
</font>
Thanks for posting this! I just sent some email off to John concerning this modification. Ellis, what is this "drill mod" you speak of? Is this the modification of the orifice in the clutch line?
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Eric Bryant
'96 Impala SS (LT4 396, T56, "firm" suspension)
'96 GMC K2500 (parts hauler/dune runner)
'92 Roadmaster wagon (winter beater)
'01 Honda Accord LX V6 Coupe (wife's car)
http://www.bryantperformance.com
[This message has been edited by Eric Bryant (edited September 10, 2002).]
Registered User
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 1,431
From: Pacific North West
Yes that is the Mod
I was tired last night Sorry. Make sure you get the mentioned 3-4 Shift fork and inserts
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Ellis
Team Captain
Team North West F-Body
www.teamnwfbody.org
I was tired last night Sorry. Make sure you get the mentioned 3-4 Shift fork and inserts
------------------
Ellis
Team Captain
Team North West F-Body
www.teamnwfbody.org
Registered User
Joined: Sep 1998
Posts: 458
From: Newark, DE.
What is John's phone number?...I need to get a hold of him. If that Viper output shaft upgrade is true, I'll be sending my trans to him on mon. I used the form on his website to have a sales rep contact me but was wondering why there is no phone number listed to contact him. Anyone have it?
Thanks
Matt
Thanks
Matt
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 1,445
From: Seattle, WA
Well, here's John's contact information, some prices for parts, and a quick explanation of the LT1 vs. Viper syncro collars:
[This message has been edited by Steve in Seattle (edited September 10, 2002).]
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">----Original Message Follows----
From: Donatoeng@aol.com
To: sjwalker@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: T56 rebuild
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 21:38:13 EDT
Yes, The main/output shaft conversion includes remachining your extension housing. The housing has to be machined to accept the Viper output shaft bushing and seal which is larger than the F-Body pieces.
The cost for the components you requested are:
3-4 Shift fork (Cast Steel) $60.00
Vespel Fork Pads (1-6 gears) $400.00 or 1-4 gears $266.67
Viper Carbon Kevlar friction lined synchro rings (1-6 gears) $174.00
All prices are plus shipping/handling and insurance.
Your transmission has the GM Paper lined synchro rings. Reverse is the only brass synchro ring in the trans. If you have any other questions or want to order any of the components please contact us.
Thanks, John
Donato Engineering
2934 E. Maple
Milford, MI 48381
248-676-8554</font>
From: Donatoeng@aol.com
To: sjwalker@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: T56 rebuild
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 21:38:13 EDT
Yes, The main/output shaft conversion includes remachining your extension housing. The housing has to be machined to accept the Viper output shaft bushing and seal which is larger than the F-Body pieces.
The cost for the components you requested are:
3-4 Shift fork (Cast Steel) $60.00
Vespel Fork Pads (1-6 gears) $400.00 or 1-4 gears $266.67
Viper Carbon Kevlar friction lined synchro rings (1-6 gears) $174.00
All prices are plus shipping/handling and insurance.
Your transmission has the GM Paper lined synchro rings. Reverse is the only brass synchro ring in the trans. If you have any other questions or want to order any of the components please contact us.
Thanks, John
Donato Engineering
2934 E. Maple
Milford, MI 48381
248-676-8554</font>
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 1,445
From: Seattle, WA
Just for comparison, here's what D&D Performance has to say about us GM T56 guys (they're also located in MI, so S&H costs would be about the same):
[This message has been edited by Steve in Seattle (edited September 10, 2002).]
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">GM T-56 owners: We stock the full line of T56 parts for your transmission, don't pay dealership price's. Give us a call (248)735-6220
T56 Syncro kit (includes 1,2 inner, 1,2 outer, 3,4 & 5,6 & Reverse) $229
T56 Bearing Kit (includes all the bearing's and race's) $199
Upgraded T56 Steel 3,4 Shift Fork $49
T56 Gears & Slider assembly's in stock call for pricing
GM Aftermarket T56 (Bolts to 4 spd. bellhousing) $1999
Rebuilt GM T56 Transmission's 94-02 $1799+core
We can also rebuild your transmission $250 labor plus parts
(248) 735-6220
www.ddperformance.com</font>
T56 Syncro kit (includes 1,2 inner, 1,2 outer, 3,4 & 5,6 & Reverse) $229
T56 Bearing Kit (includes all the bearing's and race's) $199
Upgraded T56 Steel 3,4 Shift Fork $49
T56 Gears & Slider assembly's in stock call for pricing
GM Aftermarket T56 (Bolts to 4 spd. bellhousing) $1999
Rebuilt GM T56 Transmission's 94-02 $1799+core
We can also rebuild your transmission $250 labor plus parts
(248) 735-6220
www.ddperformance.com</font>
Registered User
Joined: Dec 1998
Posts: 341
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by OneFlyn95z28:
i HIGHLY recomend using the Carbon Synchro's in ANY re-build.
</font>
i HIGHLY recomend using the Carbon Synchro's in ANY re-build.
</font>
Also I noticed that D&D's synchro kit is more expensive. Are they carbon? Who has the best carbon synchro kit?
Thanx, Rob
Registered User
Joined: Jan 1999
Posts: 839
From: Minnesota
Originally posted by rskrause
Since last positng to this thread I drove my friends 5.0 on the return road at the strip. The car is occasionally street driven and has a 4-speed G-Force transmission. The thing is quite "notchy" when you try to shift it slowly but if you shift it fast it shifts smoothly and fast. They also make a five-speed and it can be used continuously, as in street or road race use.
Top gear is always 1:1, so for street use with my low-rev setup I'd need to go to 2.73's! But it could be made to work. The 4-speed is compact and light, I easily picked it up and I have bad back. The five-speed is bulkier, but probably no bigger than the T-56. I haven't gone so far as to make any measurements for possible fitment as it's unlikely I will need to seriously contemplate this conversion. The T-56 is still holding up to >700rwhp in my >4,000lb car and it's likely that this is the last year the car will see the track. I am seriously contemplating a race car for next year. If the T-56 breaks and I want to keep racing the Camaro with slicks I think the G-Force will be the way to go. The 5-speed is a bit less than $5K.
Rich Krause
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'95 Z-28 383: Vortech, nitrous, etc.
AIM: rstevenkrause
Since last positng to this thread I drove my friends 5.0 on the return road at the strip. The car is occasionally street driven and has a 4-speed G-Force transmission. The thing is quite "notchy" when you try to shift it slowly but if you shift it fast it shifts smoothly and fast. They also make a five-speed and it can be used continuously, as in street or road race use.
Top gear is always 1:1, so for street use with my low-rev setup I'd need to go to 2.73's! But it could be made to work. The 4-speed is compact and light, I easily picked it up and I have bad back. The five-speed is bulkier, but probably no bigger than the T-56. I haven't gone so far as to make any measurements for possible fitment as it's unlikely I will need to seriously contemplate this conversion. The T-56 is still holding up to >700rwhp in my >4,000lb car and it's likely that this is the last year the car will see the track. I am seriously contemplating a race car for next year. If the T-56 breaks and I want to keep racing the Camaro with slicks I think the G-Force will be the way to go. The 5-speed is a bit less than $5K.
Rich Krause
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'95 Z-28 383: Vortech, nitrous, etc.
AIM: rstevenkrause
Moderator
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 10,745
From: Buffalo, New York
Originally posted by sleeperz28
Rich does the G-force work with the stock style clutch or does that price include a clutch as well? Im approching your possition, maybe one more year with the t56. However it held up to 700+hp this year, but no track use.
Rich does the G-force work with the stock style clutch or does that price include a clutch as well? Im approching your possition, maybe one more year with the t56. However it held up to 700+hp this year, but no track use.
Rich Krause
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 646
From: West Palm Beach, FL
Originally posted by Rob94hawk
So I'm guessing these synchros will outlast the oem ones correct? Cause if I have to change the damn 1/2/3/4th gear synchros again I'm going to go automatic!!!!
Also I noticed that D&D's synchro kit is more expensive. Are they carbon? Who has the best carbon synchro kit?
Thanx, Rob
So I'm guessing these synchros will outlast the oem ones correct? Cause if I have to change the damn 1/2/3/4th gear synchros again I'm going to go automatic!!!!
Also I noticed that D&D's synchro kit is more expensive. Are they carbon? Who has the best carbon synchro kit?
Thanx, Rob
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 18
From: lakewood,ca, usa
okay guys how many of you are pushing 550+ torque?
that what i want to get with a BB. if you are pushing that, any speacial mods to the T-56 to get it to handle that? if i'm not wrong the muncie can hold that. what are the big diff between the muncie and the t-56 input shaft. how often does input shafts break on you guys and at what range of torque?
is there a year t-56 you guys prefer?
please respond really need to make a decisions soon.
THANKS.........
Albert R.
that what i want to get with a BB. if you are pushing that, any speacial mods to the T-56 to get it to handle that? if i'm not wrong the muncie can hold that. what are the big diff between the muncie and the t-56 input shaft. how often does input shafts break on you guys and at what range of torque?
is there a year t-56 you guys prefer?
please respond really need to make a decisions soon.
THANKS.........
Albert R.