Good god guys get a grip!!!!
07-22-2008, 11:30 PM
#61
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 3,132
Yup! Pretty much!
Correct me if I'm wrong --but I posted that and I don't recall that many people disagreed.......
The bottom line is that this car has to appeal to a wider audience -- and dear friends -- the number of people that are upset about the weight (in terms of performance) is negligible in the grand scheme of things -- and the sad part? They have judged without driving. (not all -- but some have..)
At some point, decisions have to be made.......and dear GOD let me say it one more time: we don't like weight either -- ESPECIALLY with new CAFE laws that we're facing -- but we still have to make a quality car and take care of the issues that people had with the 4th gen..............
I'm sorry - but people really need to see the reality here -- YES - we could get it down to 3500 pounds - but that means cutting corners (quality) or using exotic materials ($$$$$$$$)
Correct me if I'm wrong --but I posted that and I don't recall that many people disagreed.......
The bottom line is that this car has to appeal to a wider audience -- and dear friends -- the number of people that are upset about the weight (in terms of performance) is negligible in the grand scheme of things -- and the sad part? They have judged without driving. (not all -- but some have..)
At some point, decisions have to be made.......and dear GOD let me say it one more time: we don't like weight either -- ESPECIALLY with new CAFE laws that we're facing -- but we still have to make a quality car and take care of the issues that people had with the 4th gen..............
I'm sorry - but people really need to see the reality here -- YES - we could get it down to 3500 pounds - but that means cutting corners (quality) or using exotic materials ($$$$$$$$)
And I'll bet that the "issues that people had with the 4th gen" are probably not issues that people complaining about weight had. Or perhaps they think that taking care of those doesn't add weight.
07-22-2008, 11:32 PM
#62
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 3,123
Btw, you seem to think that you're somehow helping the 6th gen's cause. You might want to ask those involved (you hint that you know some) whether they agree.
It's a shame some of you 'experts' haven't driven a G8 in anger. If you did you'd know how good it is and how much better the Camaro would be!
07-22-2008, 11:52 PM
#63
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Chicagoland IL
Posts: 16,179
Maybe I'm no expert, but I have driven a G8 in anger. It's nice. It has a strong motor. It's chassis is well balanced. But it's a big hefty mother of a car. Turn the wheel and you feel every ounce of it. Just fine for a fullsized, 4 door, sedan. But for a Camaro.......
07-22-2008, 11:55 PM
#64
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 3,132
Wasn't your 1989 Camaro a heavyweight in its day? Wasn't it quite a bit heavier than a Celebrity, and about the same as the then-new W-body?
07-23-2008, 12:04 AM
#65
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 3,123
One of us must be wrong.
Given the GM engineer who claimed Camaro left the lighter, more nimble, Mustang behind... I dare say it doesn't behave like a hefty vehicle.
And what are you basing your opinion on? Because it sounds totally subjective and not measured against a stopwatch? Do you have any comparative circuit times to prove your judgemental claims?
07-23-2008, 12:07 AM
#66
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: FLORIDA
Posts: 222
The real problem is people are VERY anxious now that we've been givin a taste essentially. The weight issue is so old, played out and over with. In todays market, cars in general are heavier period. GM could of built a 5th Gen. without a bunch of airbags, thrown a SRA on it, and cleaned shop without the neat features like the Awesome interior, Engine choices and packages...but they diden't half A&* it.
GM built the 5th Gen. with the intention to please a much more vast audience than the 1/4 mile freak, autocross junkie and roadcourse racer. Like the Mustang the Camaro has always shared platforms, it has always been an affordable 2+2 Pony/Muscle/Sports car. If GM wanted to build an extreme Modern Muscle car out of the 5th gen. they could of. But, with a vehicle like the Camaro you need to maintain volume in order to keep the car on track and selling. Price is key and 3500lbs-550hp-and a bone jaring ride for $45k plus surely wasent GM's initial intention with the launch of the 5th gen. Maybe later....
Im just proud GM stepped up and built a truly world class car, instead of just bs'ing it to a degree like another company. When the Magazine reviews surface, theres no doubt who will be number 1.
Quick question for Scott. The Camaro Website looks great, very informative and interactive. Would you happen to know if GM will put any real life pictures of the SS/RS/V-6 model on the website anytime soon? I'd like to see how that Cyber Gray, Black or White looks on the actual car in a photo and or video. That color feature, though very helpful, just doesn't seem to truly let the colors pop or show what the colors really appear like on the production car. Thanks for all you've done with the Camaro program. Now I just need to graduate college and get that 5th gen.
GM built the 5th Gen. with the intention to please a much more vast audience than the 1/4 mile freak, autocross junkie and roadcourse racer. Like the Mustang the Camaro has always shared platforms, it has always been an affordable 2+2 Pony/Muscle/Sports car. If GM wanted to build an extreme Modern Muscle car out of the 5th gen. they could of. But, with a vehicle like the Camaro you need to maintain volume in order to keep the car on track and selling. Price is key and 3500lbs-550hp-and a bone jaring ride for $45k plus surely wasent GM's initial intention with the launch of the 5th gen. Maybe later....
Im just proud GM stepped up and built a truly world class car, instead of just bs'ing it to a degree like another company. When the Magazine reviews surface, theres no doubt who will be number 1.
Quick question for Scott. The Camaro Website looks great, very informative and interactive. Would you happen to know if GM will put any real life pictures of the SS/RS/V-6 model on the website anytime soon? I'd like to see how that Cyber Gray, Black or White looks on the actual car in a photo and or video. That color feature, though very helpful, just doesn't seem to truly let the colors pop or show what the colors really appear like on the production car. Thanks for all you've done with the Camaro program. Now I just need to graduate college and get that 5th gen.
07-23-2008, 12:07 AM
#67
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Stockton, Ca. USA
Posts: 666
Just shows how plainly wrong you are. Have another read of the Motortrend article before you have yourself a panic attack. In the words of the GM engineer, the Camaro leaves the Mustang in its wake... I'd say it's a fair testament to it's performance and handling/braking ability.
EDIT: One other thing... if the weight of the car is all you base your purchasing decision on, if it's the quality of the interior and the superior suspension that doesn't sway you, then it's are very narrowminded attitude given the outlay for a vehicle.
EDIT: One other thing... if the weight of the car is all you base your purchasing decision on, if it's the quality of the interior and the superior suspension that doesn't sway you, then it's are very narrowminded attitude given the outlay for a vehicle.
07-23-2008, 12:11 AM
#68
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 3,132
There's the current Shelby GT Mustang.
Or are you talking about a 2010 or 2011 model?
07-23-2008, 12:11 AM
#69
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Miami, Fl USA
Posts: 499
Early 1LE cars came close in spirit to the early Z/28s, but that's about it.
I look forward to the S/C Z28.
But dammit, I HATE the speedo font and center stack.
07-23-2008, 12:12 AM
#70
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Chicagoland IL
Posts: 16,179
Hey, you asked. I answered. My 200-300 pounds lighter CTS felt like a freakin' racecar when I hopped into it after driving the G8. You may not like my answer, but there it is. The G8 is a nice car, but don't exaggerate it's capabilities.
07-23-2008, 12:13 AM
#71
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Stockton, Ca. USA
Posts: 666
07-23-2008, 12:17 AM
#72
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 3,123
07-23-2008, 12:17 AM
#73
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: SeVa
Posts: 2,977
--->edit<---
I suspect the F5 will feel lighter on its feet compared to the previous gen Camaros and current/previous Mustangs. Several media types have commented on the Challenger feeling this way in comparison to the Mustang and if the Camaro sports a better chassis than the Challenger as well as being a bit lighter it should hold true.
Last edited by bossco; 07-23-2008 at 12:20 AM.
07-23-2008, 12:17 AM
#74
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Miami, Fl USA
Posts: 499
Mustang hasn't able to hang with Camaro on a road course since the 1980s.
On a side note...Im happy to be able to trash talk again after all these years.
07-23-2008, 12:17 AM
#75
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Lincoln Park, MI US
Posts: 446