V6 to V8 Swap
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Registered User
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8
From: Port Richey, FL
V6 to V8 Swap
I have a 99 Camaro with a 3.8. I was originally going to buy another 3.8 and rebuild it and put the car in the 12's. Well, now I have decided to just take a 350-carburated of course- and throw it in after building it up. I don't want any of the computer crap in my car, plus it would be too costly to buy all new computer junk. But, how would I get the fuel to flow and how would I get the car to charge?
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 16
You're not gonna get the preformance out of it as you think you would. Plus, what are you going to call the car. It can't be a Z28 because it wasn't made like that from the factory. What transmission do you have, if you have the M5 isn't it going to seem kind of odd?
Just my 2 cents.
Just my 2 cents.
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 412
From: SAY Town
A computer isn't a bad thing. Its just different work. Don't let fuel injection scare you. An LT1 or LS1 would be the better bet. More expensive up front but you have to do less work to get the performance and reliability you want.
A stock LS1 makes more power than a 1969 Cutlass 442 with a 455 big block.
If you are going to get a carbureted engine, go get a carbureted car to go with it. There's really no point in cutting and hacking your new car up to put an old engine in it.
I just bought a (barely) running project car for 50 bucks - clean title.
Since I have done work on Fuelie engines, (I own 4 carbureted engines too) I know what all of them are capable of, to make BIG power. I also want great gas mileage and daily drivability.
So for this project - a 2 door Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight, I'm planning for an LT1 (or cheap LS1 if I can find it). Its gonna be a sleeper that'll click off 13 flat.
Now I could very easily get the same performance out of its stock 307, or swap in a SBC, and it'd be a budget build up, but 350 swaps have been done before, this is a little different, and I want the respect of doing something not too many have seen before.
As expensive as a brand new (you can buy one used) LS1 costs, you will be spending almost double that to build up an Aluminum Big Block. A well planned LS1 will make the same or more power and give you 20+ MPG, something you will not see on an aluminum 427.
A 427 BBC would be cool, but my advice would be to keep your options open and explore them a bit more before committing just yet.
A stock LS1 makes more power than a 1969 Cutlass 442 with a 455 big block.
If you are going to get a carbureted engine, go get a carbureted car to go with it. There's really no point in cutting and hacking your new car up to put an old engine in it.
I just bought a (barely) running project car for 50 bucks - clean title.
Since I have done work on Fuelie engines, (I own 4 carbureted engines too) I know what all of them are capable of, to make BIG power. I also want great gas mileage and daily drivability.
So for this project - a 2 door Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight, I'm planning for an LT1 (or cheap LS1 if I can find it). Its gonna be a sleeper that'll click off 13 flat.
Now I could very easily get the same performance out of its stock 307, or swap in a SBC, and it'd be a budget build up, but 350 swaps have been done before, this is a little different, and I want the respect of doing something not too many have seen before.
As expensive as a brand new (you can buy one used) LS1 costs, you will be spending almost double that to build up an Aluminum Big Block. A well planned LS1 will make the same or more power and give you 20+ MPG, something you will not see on an aluminum 427.
A 427 BBC would be cool, but my advice would be to keep your options open and explore them a bit more before committing just yet.
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 412
From: SAY Town
The reason its not cost effective is that Z28's sell higher than V6 cars.
He'll have to pay Z28 insurance.
So he can buy the engine and have it running for around $3,000.00 or he can sell his for $10,800 if he's lucky, and buy an Z28 for $13,440.
In the end, a swap comes out cheaper. Especially if you get a smokin' deal on a used engine.
He'll have to pay Z28 insurance.
So he can buy the engine and have it running for around $3,000.00 or he can sell his for $10,800 if he's lucky, and buy an Z28 for $13,440.
In the end, a swap comes out cheaper. Especially if you get a smokin' deal on a used engine.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 257
From: Aiken, South Carolina
Ok for all you guys who say that it is cheaper to just sell the v6 and buy a v8, you are wrong. I have the LS1 engine, tranny, entire rear end and z28 brakes, suspension, radiator, driveshaft, posi traction, traction control, everything! and I have come out 2-3K less than just selling my v6 and buying a v8. Also, my car now has 21k miles. Yea its a little work but IMO its worth it.
So dont let guys tell you that its cheaper to sell your 6 and buy an 8. unles your going from 3.4 to lt1, then sell the 6 and get the 8 but not for 3.8 to ls1. You just have to search for good deals on parts and not pay the first price you see.
So dont let guys tell you that its cheaper to sell your 6 and buy an 8. unles your going from 3.4 to lt1, then sell the 6 and get the 8 but not for 3.8 to ls1. You just have to search for good deals on parts and not pay the first price you see.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 736
From: Hagerstown, MD
I agree, i would never try t put an ls1 in a v6 camaro, it's stupid, you shoot your warrenty in the ***, and if you try to fool the insurance company and you do get in a wreck they will tell you to take a hike and give you nothing or press charges for insurance fraud. Just sell the 6, don't ruin a good car, and buy the z-28,it's not worth the time and frustration and you will never really trust the car. His car is a 99 so he will only get about $8k for it and a decent Z-28 will cost around $16k but you know, why take chances of costing yourself even more.
the best thing to do would be to find a LT1 that is worth not much more than the 99. find like a 97 or something.
the best thing to do would be to find a LT1 that is worth not much more than the 99. find like a 97 or something.
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 568
From: Redding CA. USA
A lot of these"Cons" make sense.But whatever floats yer boat I guess
I mean the challenge of doing the swap seems like something a person who has no other means and is roped to the car he has.But practicality seems to take the back seat on that decision.
I got my 99 Z28 M6 LS1 for 13,900...coarse I didnt want to sell the v6 so I kept it.
But if for some reason I was concidering this venture I wouldnt go carbed.I would set it up the way the real Zs are.And call it a"V62V8 ADDITION"Camaro
I mean the challenge of doing the swap seems like something a person who has no other means and is roped to the car he has.But practicality seems to take the back seat on that decision.I got my 99 Z28 M6 LS1 for 13,900...coarse I didnt want to sell the v6 so I kept it.
But if for some reason I was concidering this venture I wouldnt go carbed.I would set it up the way the real Zs are.And call it a"V62V8 ADDITION"Camaro
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 412
From: SAY Town
The reason that a swap is cheaper and cost effective is because you are not figuring in for what will be saved in insurance.
Getting in a wreck is a possibility. But the overwhelming reality is that you probably won't get in a wreck. And totally depending on the wreck, the body shop may never have to open the hood to know (or care) you have an LS1.
So, the reason 3,000 dollars vs. 2,640 dollars is because you didn't figure in for what will be saved in insurance.
If you did get in a wreck, the only thing that would happen would be that the insurance company will pay to replace the L36, instead of LS1. When was the last time you saw a wreck where the engine was completely damaged, and in need of replacement, where the verocity of the wreck didn't tweak the frame along with it??? If you jack up the motor, its the least of your problems. The car will likely be totaled.
You can call a LS1 "cheating" the insurance company, sure, but that doesn't mean that's what you are doing! For example if you have a blown V6 that pushes 325 horsepower and runs 12.9 that's perfectly okay. No need to contact the insurance company because you added a supercharger. Well, likewise, 90% of the car hasn't changed with an LS1. All you did was upgraded to 325 horsepower, in whatever form that may come in. Its still exactly as fast as a blown V6 (or nitrous based V6). But all the sudden you have to contact the insurance company and let them know you modified your car? I think not. If the insurance company wants to regulate horsepower, then they are welcome to, but they are going to have to fork the bill for dyno time. Because whether its a Hi-Po V6 or stock LS1 is still the same amount of power and the same amount of speed.
Call up your insurance company and try telling them that your V6 is just as fast as a V8, and that you'd like to now pay for V8 insurance because of its power....See what they say?
Not that cheating is good, and not to justify it either, but to elude to the fact that the insurance companies don't cheat the customer is absolutely ludicrous. Often times we are the ones that suffer - not them. They are sitting high, drunk and fattened. Making out like bandits whenever they get a chance.
After having paid into insurance for about 45 years now (both Mom AND Dad) lets assume Dad is 1,200 dollars a year to insure, and Mom is 1,000 dollars to insure, for a total of 2,200 a year. After 45 years, that comes to Ninety-Nine Thousand Dollars Their $8,000 mini-van gets hit, and is totaled, the insurance company doesn't want anything to do with the Van. Like my folks are costing them money. 99,000 minus 8,000 is still 91,000 profit to date. I think 91% profit is pretty damn good, and way too good for a company to treat people the way it does.
Getting in a wreck is a possibility. But the overwhelming reality is that you probably won't get in a wreck. And totally depending on the wreck, the body shop may never have to open the hood to know (or care) you have an LS1.
So, the reason 3,000 dollars vs. 2,640 dollars is because you didn't figure in for what will be saved in insurance.
If you did get in a wreck, the only thing that would happen would be that the insurance company will pay to replace the L36, instead of LS1. When was the last time you saw a wreck where the engine was completely damaged, and in need of replacement, where the verocity of the wreck didn't tweak the frame along with it??? If you jack up the motor, its the least of your problems. The car will likely be totaled.
You can call a LS1 "cheating" the insurance company, sure, but that doesn't mean that's what you are doing! For example if you have a blown V6 that pushes 325 horsepower and runs 12.9 that's perfectly okay. No need to contact the insurance company because you added a supercharger. Well, likewise, 90% of the car hasn't changed with an LS1. All you did was upgraded to 325 horsepower, in whatever form that may come in. Its still exactly as fast as a blown V6 (or nitrous based V6). But all the sudden you have to contact the insurance company and let them know you modified your car? I think not. If the insurance company wants to regulate horsepower, then they are welcome to, but they are going to have to fork the bill for dyno time. Because whether its a Hi-Po V6 or stock LS1 is still the same amount of power and the same amount of speed.
Call up your insurance company and try telling them that your V6 is just as fast as a V8, and that you'd like to now pay for V8 insurance because of its power....See what they say?
Not that cheating is good, and not to justify it either, but to elude to the fact that the insurance companies don't cheat the customer is absolutely ludicrous. Often times we are the ones that suffer - not them. They are sitting high, drunk and fattened. Making out like bandits whenever they get a chance.
After having paid into insurance for about 45 years now (both Mom AND Dad) lets assume Dad is 1,200 dollars a year to insure, and Mom is 1,000 dollars to insure, for a total of 2,200 a year. After 45 years, that comes to Ninety-Nine Thousand Dollars Their $8,000 mini-van gets hit, and is totaled, the insurance company doesn't want anything to do with the Van. Like my folks are costing them money. 99,000 minus 8,000 is still 91,000 profit to date. I think 91% profit is pretty damn good, and way too good for a company to treat people the way it does.
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 412
From: SAY Town
That's because you are thinking that insurance won't replace your car - and they will. Unless the car is past the point of cost effective rebuild or flat out totalled, at that point it doesn't matter what you had - V6 or V8 - its gone.
But, say you tear up the front end but no mechanical damage. The insurance company cannot refuse to fix a headlight because you now have a V8. An LS1 is a modification. May be extreme, but its a modification, just like nitrous or a supercharger. They may not replace engine parts, but if you swap, that also means you probably have access to used parts to do it yourself, anyway.
And again, I have never seen a wreck where the engine is damaged yet the car is still salvageable!!! If the engine goes, the damage exceeds the crumple zones and lower frame rails. The car is toast.
But, say you tear up the front end but no mechanical damage. The insurance company cannot refuse to fix a headlight because you now have a V8. An LS1 is a modification. May be extreme, but its a modification, just like nitrous or a supercharger. They may not replace engine parts, but if you swap, that also means you probably have access to used parts to do it yourself, anyway.
And again, I have never seen a wreck where the engine is damaged yet the car is still salvageable!!! If the engine goes, the damage exceeds the crumple zones and lower frame rails. The car is toast.
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Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 154
From: Hanover Park, IL
I always wondered what those people that do the V8 swap do about emission testing. I barerly pass mine every 2 years I have to go. I'm glad they increase the emissions as the car gets older.
I see quite a few 98 LS1 fbodies for $10K. So unless your car is worth like $4K or less I wouldn't bother. Get a Z28 and get liability only insurance. You're not going to get any money anyway if you put an LS1 in there so you're not taking any extra risk.
If you have a 94-97 I'd buy a 98 car cause you're getting so much more then just drivetrain. Much better brakes, much better interior(97+), much better headlights, etc. Plus it's a TON of work. It's just what I would do.
I see quite a few 98 LS1 fbodies for $10K. So unless your car is worth like $4K or less I wouldn't bother. Get a Z28 and get liability only insurance. You're not going to get any money anyway if you put an LS1 in there so you're not taking any extra risk.
If you have a 94-97 I'd buy a 98 car cause you're getting so much more then just drivetrain. Much better brakes, much better interior(97+), much better headlights, etc. Plus it's a TON of work. It's just what I would do.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 736
From: Hagerstown, MD
I don't think you guys understand, when you pay the insurance on a car, you pay for that's car's risk factor, if the insurance company finds that you are dishonest about what your car is, that is fraud and you get nothing., not what it cost for a v6, and on top of it they probably drop your coverage for commiting fraud, it is also punisable by law, it's called insurance fraud.