edr1

Ive heard all of the stories, v6 maros eat up v6 stangs, and can hang with pre 98 gt stangs....yea yea yea....and that new zs can eat up new gts.....

so yesterday I went with my friend to test drive a 98 stang she was looking to get, I figured what a great chance to see if it could hang with my car.....we went out together for a lil while, then i went and got my 2k v6 maro and we went driving side by side on roads.

then i told her to show me what it had from about 0-75, from a stop light i expected it to hang right with my car, and that hopefully in the end I would come out on top


boy was I wrong.....that thing was a complete dawg...in the end at about 55-60 i had her by probably 5 car lengths EASY when i started letting off it, granted i got a cat back, hf cat and CAI, but no way did i think it would be that bad

so i went online to see what the heck was going on, come to find out those things only have 150 hp, and 215 tq....no wonder it was silly slow....the thing couldnt even squeal off the line

so i began to wonder, maybe maros are really faster then the stangs...i went searching around and did some calcs to find some power-weight ratios...and come to find out in the newer v6 stangs, they have a higher power-weight ratios then the new v6 maros, and the pre 98 gts have way higher ratios, and the new gts have higher power-weight ratios then new z28s

granted most sites report that z28s are indeed faster then gts, i still wonder why that is....but then most sites ive seen report v6 stangs as being faster then v6 maros.....what is the deal??????

anyone???

GreenDemon

All the late model stangs have 3.8s. The Camaro did the switch from the 160 hp 3.4 to the 200 hp 3.8 in 96, whereas the Mustang went from the 150 hp 3.8 to the 193 hp 3.8 in 99, which is also when the GT upgraded to 260 hp. 1998 was a very bad year for the Mustang, with the 3.8 series II having been around stomping V6 stangs and hanging with GTs, and the brand new LS1 laying the smack-down on everything.

If your friend wants a car to compete with you she's going to at least have to get a 99+ V6 or else a V8.

ImportKILLER

I stopped reading after the third "maro".

edr1

thanx for the input import, i aprreciate it....

in any case, m questions were not all clearly answered

yes zs were fasters then gts in 98, but what about in 99 when they switched over

and yes in 98 v6s were faster, but what about in 99 when they switched over??

and if so, why, considering the weight-power ratios....?

ImportKILLER

No prob. I'll answer your questions if you promise not to call our cars "maros"...not too hard to put a "ca" in front.

Before I do though, the driver makes the difference. If the person can't drive, it doesn't matter.

Anyways, automatic mustangs are dogs. Doesn't matter the year or engine, newer, older...dogs. The newer mustangs have 198 HP...close to our 200 HP. Automatic vs. automatic...advantage camaro. But a m5 mustang will keep up...

Do a search on the LT1/LS1 boards on GTs...its been brought up before.

GreenDemon

An LT1 should still have the edge over any GT, however the newer ones are much closer in performance and an LT1 that isn't running properly or has a moronic driver can get beaten.

As far as 99+ V6 stangs vs 96+ V6 camaros, they are close enough in performance for people to lean one way or the other in terms of who wins. My opinion is that if both have proper drivers and both are manual, the stang should get the jump and the camaro should reel the stang in slowly. With a good driver, a manual stang may be able to beat an auto camaro. The Ford auto sucks, so the auto stang will lose every time.

And I wouldn't worry too much about the whole power/weight thing. Advertised #s don't mean everything. To me it seems like Ford was counting every single pony to come up with that 193 hp, whereas GM just said 200 hp as an estimation. My friends 99 3.8 seems to be more in the area of 215-225, and he's only done a little tweaking to the stock intake, he'll give an older gt a run for their money, and surprisingly enough can even keep that competition going at higher speeds as well (having owned a v6 and raced v6s w/ my v8, I can tell you the main difference between the two is acceleration through 2nd and 3rd gear...).

There's just too many variables going on here to say one car will always beat another car. How many options your car has, how much other junk you have in your car, what weight and type of oil you're using, how well your ignition is running. It all basically adds up to the fact that you should never assume you can beat a car because of what somebody tells you and vice versa - run them and find out.

Hope that helped explain things. Some sticky tires, synthetic oils, and weight reduction can help keep you ahead of the competition.

edr1

nice post really clears a lot of things up

so oil can make a difference i jsut change dmy oil and put that basic FRAM and oil in, was that a bad thing?

ah yes and i know tires can make a big deal in the launch department, i know because mine blow so i cant luanch good worth a damn.

where as the auto compared the the manual in the v6s, how much of a differnce is there performance wise....is there a diff in hp or is all the time difference in the better and harder shifting?---and if so would a shiftkit and servo take care of that difference

i would also like to get mine dynoed sometime....if your bud dynoed at 215hp with just intake, im sure id could be atleast at 225 or so, which would put my tq around 250 cuz i remembering hearing that gm did underestimate the lt1 i believe, maybe they did the same with the 3800 series II...???

ah yes and one more thing, since your car isnt' actually moving, and a CAI is helped by the movement of the car I believe...?? wouldnt you not feel the full benefit from that in a dyno???

ImportKILLER

Oil: Unless you run a race car, you won't see much in terms of power. I'm picky about my oil and filter. I wouldn't use Fram at gun point. You won't see any power gains from synthetic in our cars but you will have better protection. I can get more in detail on this if you want.

Transmission: What?

Intake: Don't believe 15 HP from an intake alone. That is ludacris and I don't mean the rapper. 15 HP is more realistic with the mods you already have.

As for the dyno, I don't think it would make a big difference. The car is already breathing easier...I don't think enough air is being "forced" in to make enough of a difference. If I remember correctly from my turbo cousin, 100 mph = 1 psi

edr1

do you not understand the question or do you not know the answer?

ImportKILLER

Hard time with the question. I had to re-read it.

In terms of track times, the automatic will be slower. No difference in power...

You can make up for it with gears, torque converter, and LSD. Corvette servo and shift kit will help also.

EDIT: Ah, I see you have the Y87 package. Disregard the LSD and gears then...unless you want higher gears.

GreenDemon

Magazine testing has shown about 1 hp gain for every 100 hp you already have when switching to synthetic oil of the same weight. A lighter weight might get you a couple more. Not really noticeable, but when running against the same car it could gain you a few feet.

And of course, the more horsepower you have, the better it is to have an automatic, and vice versa- for drag purposes, anyway. But I would put that number at 4-500 hp, which you're nowhere close to. A manual camaro driven by a competent driver should be able to fly by you when you hit 2nd. I should know, I had it happen to me. 1st in the 4L60E is a 3.06 ratio, which gets you off the line quickly, but 2nd drops to 1.63, which really kills the momentum. I would concentrate on getting more power before you worry about the transmission. With more power you'll be able to get through that dead spot. If you take an auto z28 for a test drive you'll notice that it just torques it's way through there instead of bogging.

And no, my friend has not dynoed his camaro, although I think he should. That's just a guesstimation, although I don't consider it to be inflated by any means. I've been with him when he's run into an older GT from a roll, and if the stang wasn't the one doing the jump, who knows who would have won.

And BTW hp gains don't always mean tq gains as well- although headers usually provide some good tq gains when coupled with a good exhaust.

If you really want some good power gains, I would suggest forced induction. That will give you the V8 torque you're looking for, and of course gives you the possibility of adding more boost later when you're ready.

93redBirdMan

the sole reason that a manual will outperform and auto is because it gets more power to the wheels, period. Thats it. An Auto will shift faster everytime (with a shift kit), theres no question about that. I keep hearing you guys say all this nonsense about trannies when the sole reason is easy, more power to the wheels.

GreenDemon

A few more horses to the wheels is not why manuals win races, it's gearing. I used to have a 96 V6 auto and I raced my friends 99 V6 M5 a few times. I would get him out of the hole by a few cars, as soon as I hit second he would walk right by me and get a few cars. What may surprise you is that from a roll it was almost dead even. And here's why:

4L60E:

1 - 3.059
2 - 1.625
3 - 1
4 - .0696

T5:

1 - 2.95
2 - 1.94
3 - 1.34
4 - 1.00
5 - .74

Not sure if those are the exact specs for the T5 in the camaro or not, there's so many, but the point is there- there's usually less of a gap in the manual transmissions, which makes it easier to stay at peak power longer.

The difference between the auto and the manual isn't really that big as far as power to the wheels- certainly not enough for a manual car to just walk right by an auto car of the same make, especially since the auto can make up for the loss of a few hp by shifting quicker. Gearing is the main reason that manual vehicles will win races, especially in lower hp applications. When you see ads that brag about a close ratio transmission, they're appealing to the power freaks out there by telling them that when you shift to the next gear, you won't bog down, you'll just keep going. Basically, all that is the reason we have gone from 3 spd autos to 4 spd, and 4 spd manual to 5 & 6. And it is the reason that carmakers will continue to look for more gears- Mercedes already has 5 spd autos out, and there's also talk of 6 gears and beyond.

abelin

GreenDemon it was nice being able to beat you when u had your 6. give it a few months then ill get a chance to run your z after i do the swap and maybe beat you again lol

GreenDemon

LOL we'll see.

Let the LS1 vs. LT1 battles begin.