Engine/Track Philosphy Q's
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,457
From: Seattle, Washington
Engine/Track Philosphy Q's
After reading a few posts at the Drag section at FirebirdV6.com I was told the best way to increase your car's performance is by it's demand, or simply only buying the mod's that your car needs in order to be better. A bunch of questions popped into my mind, much from MustangEaters experiences. Here they are. Will taking my exhaust off completely give me better gains at the track than installing an aftermarket exhaust/cat? Would taking our intake off completely give us better gains than throwing on CAI or RamAir or a Lid? Would taking off our belt's void the need for better Pulley's? If so, then these mod's are useless and a complete waste of money at the track and your car truly doesn't need them right? If thats so then I guess our first mods should be some street grabbers (tires) right? Then maybee some better gears and a stall converter to get as much power from your engine to the wheels as possible right? After you squeezed as much power out to the wheels as you can then I suppose it's time for a Cam and Headers and possibaly a Charger to get our tourque curve in the upper RPM range. If you get a powerfull Cam/Charger then you might want to upgrade your ignition system, Coilpacks, Wires, Plugs, even fuel pump.. right? Not forgetting the internals so they can sustain the power. I suppose if you get as far as getting a Cam and Super/Turbo Charger, it would be a good idea to have CAI and Exhaust to keep the car daily drivable right?
I'm just curious and by no means saying this is the law... I was just wondering what you guys thought of what I thought up. DO correct me if I'm wrong.
I'm just curious and by no means saying this is the law... I was just wondering what you guys thought of what I thought up. DO correct me if I'm wrong.
Last edited by Need4Camaro; Aug 11, 2004 at 02:13 AM.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 878
From: Clovis, NM
Re: Engine/Track Philosphy Q's
If you remove your intake your engine will suck in hot engine air and the IAT won't read the new warm air.
Leave he belts on you will need you coolant pump and Alternator but a P/S and ac and air pump don't need to be turning.
Leave he belts on you will need you coolant pump and Alternator but a P/S and ac and air pump don't need to be turning.
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 4,738
From: Charleston, SC
Re: Engine/Track Philosphy Q's
Will taking my exhaust off completely give me better gains at the track than installing an aftermarket exhaust/cat?
Alright lots of mixed views on this. One thing to remember I do have tubular manifolds on my car. So they do flow better then your exhaust manifolds. Another thing is, overall a set of headers and 3 in. exhaust will flow better overall, giving a nice full range of power. How I had the exhaust set up really drops the power in the lower RPM range but gives it mroe power in the upper RPMS(where you are going down the strip) I also had a form of backpressure through my CAT, my old car(3.4L) I had problems with not enough backpressure. I haven't experienced it yet on my current car but I have yet to pull my cat.
But for my reason for just pulling it. I want the ability to be able to put my car back to stock with relative ease, and also can't get much cheaper then free for an exhaust
We don't really know the gains fo each exhaust setup vs. my ghetto setup but their may be a slight differnece but I think its negligible with the money saved.
Would taking our intake off completely give us better gains than throwing on CAI or RamAir or a Lid?
Of course most air into the motor is ideal. But like 3.4L Deployed stated its sucking hot underhood air which is not ideal. BUT if you ar doing this with pulling the drivebelt, it doesn't matter. The car needs to be dead cold before you run. Also you are not running coolant through the radiator so it stays cool. so with no waterpump running and the car dead cool when you start off you are sucking in nothing but cooler air.
One way to counteract this I did at a autcorss, I did a homemade smoothbellows setup up with a 3in-3in PVC coupling. I obviously need the belt on for autocrossing, I am on the track much longer and power steering helps. I left this smooth bellow part hooked up to the intake but pulled the entire front of the airbox. So it still sucks air from where the airbox is so its cooler air, and its very non-restrictive.
BUT remember running no filter you do run the risk of sucking something harmful into your motor, reason why the filter is there is to prevent this and you are removing the safeguard to this.
Would taking off our belt's void the need for better Pulley's?
Yes, underdrive pulleys basically remove the amount of power they drag from the motor a little bit. Removing the belt just flat out removes any drag from the accesories. Downfalls are no alternator, so in essence you are running straight off your battery if you run off your alternator for an extended period of time the battery will drain out and your car will die. But to counteract that I have done as many as 6 runs, without putting my belt on(with plenty of time to cool down between runs) off the battery and it still had a decent charge.
Next you will have no power steering or AC, the power steering is tricky but if you expect it its doable. And Ac is just a convience.
Now the waterpump, this is the main downfall of no drivebelt. In essence you are running no coolant, and the car heats up fast. You need to watch the temp guage like a hawk Car needs to be near dead cold with a very low readin on the guage to consider running like this. Basically from the moment you start your car till you shut your car down, your car is basically running the smae if you had no coolant in your car. It will overheat quickly but I can do a full staging, burnout, run, get my slip and return and its about the normal operating temp. Then I ice the motor down for an hour and crank my waterpump by hand a little.
Though a fix for this is, that nowthere is an electric waterpump for our cars now. So you don't even need to run a belt, accept worry about your battery having enough charge for the waterpump and your car. One idea is if you have a nice cordless drill, like a 18v one you could problably keep your car off and run this on your alternator between runs and charge up your batter a little.
Though these mods may not be 100% ideal and have downfalls, when I consider the alternative to liek $1,000 in mods, I am willing to deal and take a few risks, just can't be stupid about it. I agree a thing to focus on are gears, LSD, and if you have an auto a converter. Then maybe a little suspension work.
My philosophy on our cars is do everything you can without the need for serious tuning(chanigng shiftpoints for gears isn't too harsh a tuning problem). Our cars just don't seem to have a huge aftermarket with tuning, so I don't trust it. Personally I woudl do rockers before I did heads and cams since tuning isn't needed for them. Granted some stuff works and such but it gets pricey, and we don't exactly have tons of companies to R&R on our cars like our v8 big borthers do, to find out all the mistakes and such.
but then again it goes on your goals, if you are going to have the fastest 3.8L around heads and cam may have to be the way you go.
Alright lots of mixed views on this. One thing to remember I do have tubular manifolds on my car. So they do flow better then your exhaust manifolds. Another thing is, overall a set of headers and 3 in. exhaust will flow better overall, giving a nice full range of power. How I had the exhaust set up really drops the power in the lower RPM range but gives it mroe power in the upper RPMS(where you are going down the strip) I also had a form of backpressure through my CAT, my old car(3.4L) I had problems with not enough backpressure. I haven't experienced it yet on my current car but I have yet to pull my cat.
But for my reason for just pulling it. I want the ability to be able to put my car back to stock with relative ease, and also can't get much cheaper then free for an exhaust
We don't really know the gains fo each exhaust setup vs. my ghetto setup but their may be a slight differnece but I think its negligible with the money saved.Would taking our intake off completely give us better gains than throwing on CAI or RamAir or a Lid?
Of course most air into the motor is ideal. But like 3.4L Deployed stated its sucking hot underhood air which is not ideal. BUT if you ar doing this with pulling the drivebelt, it doesn't matter. The car needs to be dead cold before you run. Also you are not running coolant through the radiator so it stays cool. so with no waterpump running and the car dead cool when you start off you are sucking in nothing but cooler air.
One way to counteract this I did at a autcorss, I did a homemade smoothbellows setup up with a 3in-3in PVC coupling. I obviously need the belt on for autocrossing, I am on the track much longer and power steering helps. I left this smooth bellow part hooked up to the intake but pulled the entire front of the airbox. So it still sucks air from where the airbox is so its cooler air, and its very non-restrictive.
BUT remember running no filter you do run the risk of sucking something harmful into your motor, reason why the filter is there is to prevent this and you are removing the safeguard to this.
Would taking off our belt's void the need for better Pulley's?
Yes, underdrive pulleys basically remove the amount of power they drag from the motor a little bit. Removing the belt just flat out removes any drag from the accesories. Downfalls are no alternator, so in essence you are running straight off your battery if you run off your alternator for an extended period of time the battery will drain out and your car will die. But to counteract that I have done as many as 6 runs, without putting my belt on(with plenty of time to cool down between runs) off the battery and it still had a decent charge.
Next you will have no power steering or AC, the power steering is tricky but if you expect it its doable. And Ac is just a convience.
Now the waterpump, this is the main downfall of no drivebelt. In essence you are running no coolant, and the car heats up fast. You need to watch the temp guage like a hawk Car needs to be near dead cold with a very low readin on the guage to consider running like this. Basically from the moment you start your car till you shut your car down, your car is basically running the smae if you had no coolant in your car. It will overheat quickly but I can do a full staging, burnout, run, get my slip and return and its about the normal operating temp. Then I ice the motor down for an hour and crank my waterpump by hand a little.
Though a fix for this is, that nowthere is an electric waterpump for our cars now. So you don't even need to run a belt, accept worry about your battery having enough charge for the waterpump and your car. One idea is if you have a nice cordless drill, like a 18v one you could problably keep your car off and run this on your alternator between runs and charge up your batter a little.
Though these mods may not be 100% ideal and have downfalls, when I consider the alternative to liek $1,000 in mods, I am willing to deal and take a few risks, just can't be stupid about it. I agree a thing to focus on are gears, LSD, and if you have an auto a converter. Then maybe a little suspension work.
My philosophy on our cars is do everything you can without the need for serious tuning(chanigng shiftpoints for gears isn't too harsh a tuning problem). Our cars just don't seem to have a huge aftermarket with tuning, so I don't trust it. Personally I woudl do rockers before I did heads and cams since tuning isn't needed for them. Granted some stuff works and such but it gets pricey, and we don't exactly have tons of companies to R&R on our cars like our v8 big borthers do, to find out all the mistakes and such.
but then again it goes on your goals, if you are going to have the fastest 3.8L around heads and cam may have to be the way you go.
