Big issue with Eibach Pro Kit and UMI upper and lower A-arms
01-14-2014, 01:42 PM
#1
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Location: Meißen, Saxony, Germany
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Big issue with Eibach Pro Kit and UMI upper and lower A-arms
Hello,
my problem is a little bit hard to explain. I am an german Camaro Z28 driver and I didnt have a shop around here that can give me quick help. The Camaro is here in Germany a car that is not often driving around, so the knowledge is very low.
After an accident, I rebuild my Camaro at the front end and use the
"Eibach Pro-Kit Lowering Springs 3870-140, UPC: 803050127594"
and the
"UMI Performance Front Upper and Lower A-Arm Kit UPI-230511-B"
Here comes the big problem:
At the drivers side (left) after installing all is fine but at the passengers side (right) the springs have contact with the upper A-Arm and its mounting screw. The original upper sping-stop at the passengers side side is mirrored, so that viewed and compared right and left side, the spring rotation starts ever left side at the spring stop.
After getting this situation, we rebuild the original upper A-Arm back to car and got nearly the same result. The upper spring do have contact with the mounting bolt of the upper A-arm but not with the arm (the stock one gives 5mm more space). So my question is here first: Eibach never sell springs that hit cars screws... Something must be wrong here.
I need urgently help here. The best solution was an upper spring stop (I dont know the right english word for this part) with the spring stop at 180 degree rotated other side.
Please take a look at the pictures:
Here you see what I mean with "upper spring stop". The left and the right side have its own part and EVER the spring rotation starts left sided when you look at the part. The resulting problem is the spring contact to the upper A-Arm and its mounting bolt at the passengers side (right).
For orientation: If you take a look at the picture, you see the spring stop at the arrow to show what I mean. This "stop-side" shows to the back of the car.
Here you see the problem:
For compare the drivers side (left)
Here the spring-stop of the drivers side (left). If you take a look at the picture and compare with the passengers side, you see the spring stop the side that shows to the FRONT of the car.
my problem is a little bit hard to explain. I am an german Camaro Z28 driver and I didnt have a shop around here that can give me quick help. The Camaro is here in Germany a car that is not often driving around, so the knowledge is very low.
After an accident, I rebuild my Camaro at the front end and use the
"Eibach Pro-Kit Lowering Springs 3870-140, UPC: 803050127594"
and the
"UMI Performance Front Upper and Lower A-Arm Kit UPI-230511-B"
Here comes the big problem:
At the drivers side (left) after installing all is fine but at the passengers side (right) the springs have contact with the upper A-Arm and its mounting screw. The original upper sping-stop at the passengers side side is mirrored, so that viewed and compared right and left side, the spring rotation starts ever left side at the spring stop.
After getting this situation, we rebuild the original upper A-Arm back to car and got nearly the same result. The upper spring do have contact with the mounting bolt of the upper A-arm but not with the arm (the stock one gives 5mm more space). So my question is here first: Eibach never sell springs that hit cars screws... Something must be wrong here.
I need urgently help here. The best solution was an upper spring stop (I dont know the right english word for this part) with the spring stop at 180 degree rotated other side.
Please take a look at the pictures:
Here you see what I mean with "upper spring stop". The left and the right side have its own part and EVER the spring rotation starts left sided when you look at the part. The resulting problem is the spring contact to the upper A-Arm and its mounting bolt at the passengers side (right).
For orientation: If you take a look at the picture, you see the spring stop at the arrow to show what I mean. This "stop-side" shows to the back of the car.
Here you see the problem:
For compare the drivers side (left)
Here the spring-stop of the drivers side (left). If you take a look at the picture and compare with the passengers side, you see the spring stop the side that shows to the FRONT of the car.
01-14-2014, 07:46 PM
#2
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,685
Re: Big issue with Eibach Pro Kit and UMI upper and lower A-arms
Any possibility that they are on upside down? Are they smaller at the other end? I can't really tell from the photos if this is the case, but thought I would throw it out there.
Last edited by Kevin Blown 95 TA; 01-14-2014 at 07:50 PM.
01-15-2014, 10:53 AM
#4
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Location: Hell was full so they sent me to NJ
Posts: 70,646
Re: Big issue with Eibach Pro Kit and UMI upper and lower A-arms
The Eibach spring should have a large diameter coil on the bottom, to fit in the seat on the shock, and a smaller diameter "pigtail" on the top to fit into the groove in the upper spring seat/shock mount. They are also progressive springs - the bottom coils are spaced a lot closer than the top coils - and the coil spacing in the pictures looks identical on both the driver and passenger side.
I ran the Pro-Kit with brand new upper spring seats, stock upper a-arms, and never had a problem. Appears the top of the spring that is hitting is pushed over toward one side.
The upper a-arm mount is sandwiched between the shock tower and the upper spring seat. Is it possible there is a bit of "play" in the holes in the a-arm mount, allowing it to be shifted to one side relative to the spring seat? Is it possible that there was chassis damage that was not picked up following the accident?
I ran the Pro-Kit with brand new upper spring seats, stock upper a-arms, and never had a problem. Appears the top of the spring that is hitting is pushed over toward one side.
The upper a-arm mount is sandwiched between the shock tower and the upper spring seat. Is it possible there is a bit of "play" in the holes in the a-arm mount, allowing it to be shifted to one side relative to the spring seat? Is it possible that there was chassis damage that was not picked up following the accident?
01-15-2014, 12:53 PM
#5
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Meißen, Saxony, Germany
Posts: 102
Re: Big issue with Eibach Pro Kit and UMI upper and lower A-arms
Hey there,
thanks for reply. The springs are 100% right installed. For the other parts we have friends original Z28 for comparing. The accident was a small one with cracked headlights and bumper with wing. No deep crash into metall.
IMPORTANT: Great will be an comparing with another Eibach Pro Kit users: The pictures from my first post, shows the car in lifted position without passengers side wheel. UMI writes to me, that the space to the spring goes into the normal position when the suspension is load. Today we stay the Camaro on its wheels and voila, we have enougth space between spring and upper A-arm.
BUT:
The bad side is: The spring already have contact with the mounting bolt of the upper A-Arm. This is a cracy situation because all parts are 100% right bolt on and the spring-kit requires no additional parts.
How looks the "spring to the bolt" at other users setup? The UMI upper A-arms dont play any role in this case. The issue is spring vs. bolt.
Here the pictures from today in loaded situation.
The sping cs. the arm have now enougth space. So far, this problem is solved:
BUT here on the 2nd picture you see, that the bolt have contact with the spring. I dont belive that Eibach sell bolt on spring kits that get this situation, so we need to find out WHY I have it. Eibach didnt reply my request till today, so I only have UMIs feedback and test with the original upper A-arms with the same result.
The issue must be located around the spring kit.
All other parts are stock GM. The front shocks are KYB-KG9310.
If anyone can compare my picture at load with your car, same spring kit will be great. I need to find the error.
EDIT:
Exist an upper strut mount (this spring seat / stop) with the stop-seat at the other side of the part?
thanks for reply. The springs are 100% right installed. For the other parts we have friends original Z28 for comparing. The accident was a small one with cracked headlights and bumper with wing. No deep crash into metall.
IMPORTANT: Great will be an comparing with another Eibach Pro Kit users: The pictures from my first post, shows the car in lifted position without passengers side wheel. UMI writes to me, that the space to the spring goes into the normal position when the suspension is load. Today we stay the Camaro on its wheels and voila, we have enougth space between spring and upper A-arm.
BUT:
The bad side is: The spring already have contact with the mounting bolt of the upper A-Arm. This is a cracy situation because all parts are 100% right bolt on and the spring-kit requires no additional parts.
How looks the "spring to the bolt" at other users setup? The UMI upper A-arms dont play any role in this case. The issue is spring vs. bolt.
Here the pictures from today in loaded situation.
The sping cs. the arm have now enougth space. So far, this problem is solved:
BUT here on the 2nd picture you see, that the bolt have contact with the spring. I dont belive that Eibach sell bolt on spring kits that get this situation, so we need to find out WHY I have it. Eibach didnt reply my request till today, so I only have UMIs feedback and test with the original upper A-arms with the same result.
The issue must be located around the spring kit.
All other parts are stock GM. The front shocks are KYB-KG9310.
If anyone can compare my picture at load with your car, same spring kit will be great. I need to find the error.
EDIT:
Exist an upper strut mount (this spring seat / stop) with the stop-seat at the other side of the part?
Last edited by JACK RABBITz; 01-15-2014 at 01:04 PM.
01-15-2014, 01:20 PM
#6
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Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: Hell was full so they sent me to NJ
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Re: Big issue with Eibach Pro Kit and UMI upper and lower A-arms
Problem is I can't access my car because it is in storage for the winter. I looked at some of my old photos, and I have a picture of the upper spring seat, but the suspension was not loaded, and the angle isn't correct to see the clearance between the bolt head and the spring. I'll keep looking at my photos, because I think I have one with the suspension loaded.
01-15-2014, 02:46 PM
#7
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Meißen, Saxony, Germany
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Re: Big issue with Eibach Pro Kit and UMI upper and lower A-arms
Thanks, this will be great. This issue makes me real thoughtful. Eibach is a very big company that build quality stuff and when I take a look to my screw then the first I think is: Never Eibach will create a spring that hit the screw there.
01-16-2014, 02:21 PM
#9
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Re: Big issue with Eibach Pro Kit and UMI upper and lower A-arms
Uh, damn but thanks for looking at. I hope any other pro-kit user can help me out. This is much important for me.
01-16-2014, 02:47 PM
#10
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Westminster, CA
Posts: 349
Re: Big issue with Eibach Pro Kit and UMI upper and lower A-arms
How close is your alignment? If you have the caster/camber way off (i.e., the lower a-arm is not even close to where it is supposed to be), the lower shock/spring mount would be off by a couple inches and could get the spring in at an angle?
01-16-2014, 03:15 PM
#11
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Meißen, Saxony, Germany
Posts: 102
Re: Big issue with Eibach Pro Kit and UMI upper and lower A-arms
The space between upper A-arm mounting screw and spring is zero. Loaded suspension and lift, the same situation. To change the lower A-arm we have no chance to get the space bigger. Look at the picture. The springs diameter is so big, that you need to lift the whole axle to ~30 degree to get the space you need.
Here is the compare before and after change of the parts. You see the original springs have a smaller diameter but doesnt have so much space to the screw too. If you compare the spring itself you see how wide the Eibach is going out the upper turn. This space brings it to zero to the screw.
Picture stock suspension:
Picture after changing the parts:
Here is the compare before and after change of the parts. You see the original springs have a smaller diameter but doesnt have so much space to the screw too. If you compare the spring itself you see how wide the Eibach is going out the upper turn. This space brings it to zero to the screw.
Picture stock suspension:
Picture after changing the parts:
01-17-2014, 01:19 PM
#13
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Location: Meißen, Saxony, Germany
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Re: Big issue with Eibach Pro Kit and UMI upper and lower A-arms
For me too but then we have only one logic result: The Eibach pro-kit doesnt fit to the car. This I cant belive.
01-17-2014, 03:45 PM
#14
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Re: Big issue with Eibach Pro Kit and UMI upper and lower A-arms
Are both springs the same part #?
Appears your "problem" spring has the number 3870.001 Is the other side the same #?
I did look at one of my pictures that shows the part #, and it is most probably 3831.000. There is a slight scratch through the second "3".... but I think it's a "3".
However, your 99 with an aluminum engine block probably has different spring rates than my 94 with cast iron block. However, the diameter of the 99 spring should be the same as that of the 94 spring.
Further to the comment above, when I lookk at the "problem" side, compared to the no-problem side, it seems to me that the top coil of the spring is either way larger than the stock coil, or shifted to the left, contacting the bolt head. How can that happen? Are you sure the end of the spring coil is exactly in the correct position in the rubber seat?
I believe (it's 15 years since I installed my Eibach Pro-Kit) there is a spiral groove set into the seat, and the top coil of the spring (pigtail) is shaped to fit exactly in the groove. The end of the spring coil has to be up tight against the end of the groove in the seat.
Just thinking out loud, what if the pigtail was not all the way up against the end of the groove in the seat? In that case it would appear that the spring might be able to shift slightly to the side.
Not sure if this helps, but I think the questions are worth asking.
Appears your "problem" spring has the number 3870.001 Is the other side the same #?
I did look at one of my pictures that shows the part #, and it is most probably 3831.000. There is a slight scratch through the second "3".... but I think it's a "3".
However, your 99 with an aluminum engine block probably has different spring rates than my 94 with cast iron block. However, the diameter of the 99 spring should be the same as that of the 94 spring.
Further to the comment above, when I lookk at the "problem" side, compared to the no-problem side, it seems to me that the top coil of the spring is either way larger than the stock coil, or shifted to the left, contacting the bolt head. How can that happen? Are you sure the end of the spring coil is exactly in the correct position in the rubber seat?
I believe (it's 15 years since I installed my Eibach Pro-Kit) there is a spiral groove set into the seat, and the top coil of the spring (pigtail) is shaped to fit exactly in the groove. The end of the spring coil has to be up tight against the end of the groove in the seat.
Just thinking out loud, what if the pigtail was not all the way up against the end of the groove in the seat? In that case it would appear that the spring might be able to shift slightly to the side.
Not sure if this helps, but I think the questions are worth asking.
Last edited by Injuneer; 01-17-2014 at 03:47 PM.
01-18-2014, 05:57 AM
#15
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Re: Big issue with Eibach Pro Kit and UMI upper and lower A-arms
Yes, it is. The upper coil round have a much bigger diameter then the original springs.
I have purchased this KIT: http://www.summitracing.com/int/part...ro?prefilter=1
Means for the 99 Z28: Eibach-Kit 3870-140 with the Springnumbers 3870.001 (front) and 3870.002 (rear). Lower the car 1.2''. The numbers are right at the springs placed. So it is this kit I have installed.
The springs seat 100% exact in the rupper seats.
Belive me, we rebuild this side two times, we have checked friends Camaro and the GM papers and printings, the only one reason we found is, that the upper coil diameter is a little bit to big to fit in right.
Here the picture (suspension loaded) at the problem side:
I have purchased this KIT: http://www.summitracing.com/int/part...ro?prefilter=1
Means for the 99 Z28: Eibach-Kit 3870-140 with the Springnumbers 3870.001 (front) and 3870.002 (rear). Lower the car 1.2''. The numbers are right at the springs placed. So it is this kit I have installed.
The springs seat 100% exact in the rupper seats.
Belive me, we rebuild this side two times, we have checked friends Camaro and the GM papers and printings, the only one reason we found is, that the upper coil diameter is a little bit to big to fit in right.
Here the picture (suspension loaded) at the problem side: