LT1 Based Engine Tech 1993-1997 LT1/LT4 Engine Related

car is missing, bogging... under a load

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Old Jan 15, 2008 | 07:59 AM
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From: fort worth/burleson Tx
car is missing, bogging... under a load

car has been fine and then the past week it has started to miss under a load. the check engine light has come on 2 times but after driving for a bit it goes off. the car has:

gave it a quick visual and it all looked fine
5k on msd wires
5k on msd coil wire
5k on new gm opti
3k on new coil
3k on new spark plugs
pcm was reprogrammed 5k ago also
gas is premium, with some lucas fuel treatment
14 volts

trans is slipping, could it be the converter is going to crap?
Old Jan 15, 2008 | 09:40 AM
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When did you last change the fuel filter?
Old Jan 15, 2008 | 04:34 PM
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just checked the codes:

knock was at 35, but madz28.com tuned it out i thought?

43 esc module
33 map sensor or circ too high

i also cleared the codes and the esc code came back up instantly.

i'm thinking that the map sensor may be bad, i'm pretty sure this would be why i'm getting knock

Last edited by Critter; Jan 15, 2008 at 04:44 PM.
Old Jan 16, 2008 | 02:43 PM
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this thing was just falling on its face on the way home... any thoughts?
Old Jan 16, 2008 | 04:09 PM
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KS more than likely the culprit

The 43 is the KS circuit. When it detects a problem with the circuit it pulls timing. That's why you feel as though it is falling on it's face.

Check the blue wire going to the KS for 5 volts to ground with it unplugged. Then measure the resistance of the center terminal of the KS to the block to be sure it's within 3300 to 4500 ohms. Then if need be, unplug the white PCM connector and be sure there is no voltage on the blue wire.

To investigate the MAP, unplug the MAP and turn key on. Confirm the green wire is 1 volt or less. Then measure from the ground wire(black) to grey and confirm 5 volts. If incorrect, check from the black wire to the pos battery terminal. If still incorrect, the ground wire is defective.
Old Jan 16, 2008 | 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Critter
just checked the codes:

knock was at 35, but madz28.com tuned it out i thought?

43 esc module
33 map sensor or circ too high

i also cleared the codes and the esc code came back up instantly.

i'm thinking that the map sensor may be bad, i'm pretty sure this would be why i'm getting knock
How did you determine "knock was at 35"? If you had 35deg of knock retard, the engine wouldn't be running well at all. Is it possible the scanner indicated the spark timing as "-35"?

DTC 43 = Knock Sensor (KS) circuit

Do you have your knock sensor connected? If the PCM doesn't see the required voltage on the circuit, it sets DTC 43. With a stock tune, that would then result in knock retard almost constantly, ranging from 0-15 degrees. But not 35 degrees.

DTC 33 = Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) sensor circuit (signal voltage high, low vacuum)

That may be setting at a result of your cam. Once you go over ~65kPa at idle, the PCM assumes the MAP sensor is screwed up. You need to scan the MAP readings at idle, and under load.
Old Jan 16, 2008 | 05:05 PM
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i have a resistor on pin 22 of the Blue PCM connector. It has or had a dark blue wire on it. It is the dark blue wire closest to the white/black wire and it is above a light green wire.

The other end of the resistor is connected to ground.

so i would assume this takes care of the pcm side of the knock module?
Old Jan 16, 2008 | 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Injuneer
How did you determine "knock was at 35"? If you had 35deg of knock retard, the engine wouldn't be running well at all. Is it possible the scanner indicated the spark timing as "-35"?

DTC 43 = Knock Sensor (KS) circuit

Do you have your knock sensor connected? If the PCM doesn't see the required voltage on the circuit, it sets DTC 43. With a stock tune, that would then result in knock retard almost constantly, ranging from 0-15 degrees. But not 35 degrees.

DTC 33 = Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) sensor circuit (signal voltage high, low vacuum)

That may be setting at a result of your cam. Once you go over ~65kPa at idle, the PCM assumes the MAP sensor is screwed up. You need to scan the MAP readings at idle, and under load.

the snap on scanner i used had 35 beside the knock.

and its running worse and worse... but it seems like it is better when the temperature outside is warmer?!?!

Last edited by Critter; Jan 16, 2008 at 05:09 PM.
Old Jan 17, 2008 | 07:54 AM
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Today when i drove it to work it kinda pops. It sounds like if you run a car up to 5k and then let the rpms bring it down to 3k and as soon as you touch the gas it pops. Like its loading up. Only it does this at all times all rpms levels.

also it is idling at a lower rpm than normal and almost dying.
Old Jan 17, 2008 | 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Critter
i have a resistor on pin 22 of the Blue PCM connector. It has or had a dark blue wire on it. It is the dark blue wire closest to the white/black wire and it is above a light green wire.

The other end of the resistor is connected to ground.

so i would assume this takes care of the pcm side of the knock module?
Has nothing to do with the knock module. That would be a way to eliminate the knock sensor. Apparently something has come loose on the resistor.

The factory programming maximum knock retard (not "knock") is 15 degrees. It is highly unlikely anyone would reprogram to allow up to 35 degrees of knock retard. Was the field labeled "knock retard", and is it possible it was reading 3.5 and not 35
Old Jan 17, 2008 | 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Injuneer
Has nothing to do with the knock module. That would be a way to eliminate the knock sensor. Apparently something has come loose on the resistor.

The factory programming maximum knock retard (not "knock") is 15 degrees. It is highly unlikely anyone would reprogram to allow up to 35 degrees of knock retard. Was the field labeled "knock retard", and is it possible it was reading 3.5 and not 35
But before i fixed that it wasn't running like this, it was just setting off the ses light. it ran fine before the resistor, but i do understand what you are saying thank you for clarifying.
Old Jan 29, 2008 | 06:13 PM
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I got some data from the scantron again:
What is the difference between hg and kpa?

Map @ idle = 18.1-19.0 hg
Map @ wot = 29.3 hg
Map V @ idle= 2.8
Map V @ wot= 14.62
Spark Adv. idle = 30
Spark Adv. wot = 36
Knock idle = 40 Knock sensor not plugged in, but tuned out and resistor in line and grounded on pcm
Knock wot = 74
Knock retard idle and wot= 0 Tuned out via madz28 tune
baro V idle = 4.8
Iac idle = 73
Tps V = .63

Left o2 wot= 752 mv Right o2 wot = 902 mv
Old Jan 29, 2008 | 06:15 PM
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From: fort worth/burleson Tx
Originally Posted by speedygonzales
To investigate the MAP, unplug the MAP and turn key on. Confirm the green wire is 1 volt or less. Then measure from the ground wire(black) to grey and confirm 5 volts. If incorrect, check from the black wire to the pos battery terminal. If still incorrect, the ground wire is defective.
I havn't done this yet, do i still need to after the info i just posted?
Old Jan 29, 2008 | 08:03 PM
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This sounds like what my car was doing.
Check your cap and rotor. Before I pulled mine my car would ping.
Also, check for vacuum leaks.
Meanwhile the opti is off, do the rotor mod!
Old Jan 29, 2008 | 08:43 PM
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From: fort worth/burleson Tx
Originally Posted by sam pace
This sounds like what my car was doing.
Check your cap and rotor. Before I pulled mine my car would ping.
Also, check for vacuum leaks.
Meanwhile the opti is off, do the rotor mod!
has 5k on it and has been fine gm opti ?!?! if its the opti i'm selling the car



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