Oops. swirls/fisheye
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 135
From: Port Neches, TX
Oops. swirls/fisheye
About 2 weeks ago, I washed and waxed my 1993 Z28. I've waxed the car in the past, and I've never had any problems. So, about 2 Saturdays ago, I wax the car by hand after a good wash. When I took the car out later that night, I stopped at a gas station and noticed swirls all over the entire car. At the time, I figured maybe it was the lights, but when I brought it home and checked it out the next day, the swirls were still visible. Anywhere you look at the car, you see the "fisheye" swirl pattern - just a circle after circle after circle...The red paint and the black roof are both like this. The car really looks like ****, and I have no idea why this happened. I was using Meguire's Cleaner Wax, and an old cloth.
This weekend, I am going to wash the car, clay it, and try to wax it with an orbital buffer. I saw a 6" buffer (which should be pretty easy to handle) that I'm probably going to pick up for this job (I've used a 10-12" buffer before, and didn't have any problems)
Anyway, is this going to help my problem, or is my paint shot? Any tips on what to use to minimize these swirls? Preferably something I can pick up locally? I kinda feel stupid posting this, but I really have no idea why these "swirls" showed up...Is it something I did? I've waxed cars before and never left swirls, so I don't know why it happened this time...
I appreciate any help you're willing to provide. Thanks much!
------------------
Red 1993 Z28 A4/3.23
CAI, Hooker LTs, Mufflex Y, Borla, Chrome ZR1s
This weekend, I am going to wash the car, clay it, and try to wax it with an orbital buffer. I saw a 6" buffer (which should be pretty easy to handle) that I'm probably going to pick up for this job (I've used a 10-12" buffer before, and didn't have any problems)
Anyway, is this going to help my problem, or is my paint shot? Any tips on what to use to minimize these swirls? Preferably something I can pick up locally? I kinda feel stupid posting this, but I really have no idea why these "swirls" showed up...Is it something I did? I've waxed cars before and never left swirls, so I don't know why it happened this time...
I appreciate any help you're willing to provide. Thanks much!
------------------
Red 1993 Z28 A4/3.23
CAI, Hooker LTs, Mufflex Y, Borla, Chrome ZR1s
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,564
From: Memphis, TN
Well, you might need to look more closely at your tools for applying and buffing the wax. First off, I'd ditch the old cloth to apply the wax. 
That in itself could have made the mess as it probably isn't 100% cotton and it may have been contaminated. You need a few quality cotton applicators, like the Vikings found at AutoZone, or something similar. I use foam apps myself most of the time, but for cleaner waxes I feel cotton is the way to go, not foam. Also, what did you buff the C/W off with? If it was more old rags, that's problem two. You need quality 100% cotton toweling like Fieldcrest, Charisma or Royal Velvet, POLO, Noble Choice etc... If you picked up any dirt or grit while applying the wax this could be an issue as well. It's really kinda hard to say exactly what caused it without being there, but these are some general tips that most likely cause swirls.
Your paint is far from shot. It will probably need a good swirl remover like 3M SMR #39009 or Meguiar's #9 SMR 2.0. Personally, I'd get the #9 for hand use and 3M for use with a buffer. 3M can be used by hand, but it's a bit of work. There are products out there that can cure even the worst of swirls with the right tools. So, I'd clay it, try the swirl remover, then rewax and see how it looks. No matter what wax or polish products you use, if you use poor quality applicators and buffing towels, you'll always end up will less than stellar results.
HTH!
Mike
------------------
*My 1992 Camaro RS 25th Anniv.*
Dark Red Metallic (ext.) / Flame Red (int.)
Flowmaster Crossflow, K&N, 20% 3M Panther Black Tint
JL Audio 3 10", PPI PC2100, other Kenwood & Pioneer goodies...
Show Car Shine by ZainoBros! - Thanks Sal!
[This message has been edited by MikeLS (edited August 30, 2002).]
That in itself could have made the mess as it probably isn't 100% cotton and it may have been contaminated. You need a few quality cotton applicators, like the Vikings found at AutoZone, or something similar. I use foam apps myself most of the time, but for cleaner waxes I feel cotton is the way to go, not foam. Also, what did you buff the C/W off with? If it was more old rags, that's problem two. You need quality 100% cotton toweling like Fieldcrest, Charisma or Royal Velvet, POLO, Noble Choice etc... If you picked up any dirt or grit while applying the wax this could be an issue as well. It's really kinda hard to say exactly what caused it without being there, but these are some general tips that most likely cause swirls.Your paint is far from shot. It will probably need a good swirl remover like 3M SMR #39009 or Meguiar's #9 SMR 2.0. Personally, I'd get the #9 for hand use and 3M for use with a buffer. 3M can be used by hand, but it's a bit of work. There are products out there that can cure even the worst of swirls with the right tools. So, I'd clay it, try the swirl remover, then rewax and see how it looks. No matter what wax or polish products you use, if you use poor quality applicators and buffing towels, you'll always end up will less than stellar results.
HTH!
Mike
------------------
*My 1992 Camaro RS 25th Anniv.*
Dark Red Metallic (ext.) / Flame Red (int.)
Flowmaster Crossflow, K&N, 20% 3M Panther Black Tint
JL Audio 3 10", PPI PC2100, other Kenwood & Pioneer goodies...
Show Car Shine by ZainoBros! - Thanks Sal!
[This message has been edited by MikeLS (edited August 30, 2002).]
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 126
From: MinneSNOWta
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by MikeLS:
You need quality 100% cotton toweling like Fieldcrest, Charisma or Royal Velvet, POLO, Noble Choice etc...
HTH!
Mike
</font>
You need quality 100% cotton toweling like Fieldcrest, Charisma or Royal Velvet, POLO, Noble Choice etc...
HTH!
Mike
</font>
I HATE WINTER!!!!!
------------------
Rox
2001 Bright Rally Red SS Zaino-happy and would really like a Corsa sometime in this cosmic millennium
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 135
From: Port Neches, TX
Well, I feel stupid enough already. After I posted this, I thought about it and realized that my problem probably had alot to do with the applicator, like you said. Don't get me wrong, the cloth wasn't one I picked up off of the garage floor, but it wasn't top quality either. My problem is that when I decide to do something, I do it. You'd think by now I would know better and take the time to do things right - the first time. Now, I'm going to be spending another weekend cleaing the car. The applicators are only about 2 bucks at Walmart for a pack of 3 - cheap insurance. But, I washed the car, saw the wax in the garage, and went after it. Serves me right!
Anyway, I don't think I'm going to use the buffer, either. After my stupid mistake with the cloths, I better stick to the soft applicators and elbow grease. I'll also pick up the softest towels I can find.
Also, a question on the swirl mark removers - will I need to apply light, medium, etc pressure? Or will the instructions tell me? Will the swirl remover do it's job without much pressure/effort, or is it all in the pad/effort? Same question for applying/removing the wax.
Again, I appreciate your help. I can do all sorts of work on my car, but when it comes to this stuff, I'm pretty clueless, as you probably figured out. Much thanks! I REALLY appreciate your advice.
Jeff
[This message has been edited by QUICK305 (edited August 30, 2002).]
[This message has been edited by QUICK305 (edited August 30, 2002).]
Anyway, I don't think I'm going to use the buffer, either. After my stupid mistake with the cloths, I better stick to the soft applicators and elbow grease. I'll also pick up the softest towels I can find.
Also, a question on the swirl mark removers - will I need to apply light, medium, etc pressure? Or will the instructions tell me? Will the swirl remover do it's job without much pressure/effort, or is it all in the pad/effort? Same question for applying/removing the wax.
Again, I appreciate your help. I can do all sorts of work on my car, but when it comes to this stuff, I'm pretty clueless, as you probably figured out. Much thanks! I REALLY appreciate your advice.
Jeff
[This message has been edited by QUICK305 (edited August 30, 2002).]
[This message has been edited by QUICK305 (edited August 30, 2002).]
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,564
From: Memphis, TN
Hey Rox,
Yeah, I always thought the Royal Velvet were good towels, but after using even better quality towels, they feel like sandpaper by comparison! It's no wonder they cause light marring on my finish. I still think Noble Choice and POLO are great towels too, but you can't go wrong with Charisma either.
Jeff,
Don't be so hard on yourself, we've all been there before I'm sure, I know I have! About the swirl removers, you'll need to use moderate pressure for the light swirl removers. The abrasives in the swirl removers have to be broken down into a finer polish for them to do the job properly. So, a lot of it is effort and elbow grease, especially with 3M products. Other than that, the instructions on the bottles will tell you the best way to apply the product. For the wax though, you want to use light pressure. The wax doesn't need to be rubbed in for it to work right. In fact the lighter you apply it the less chances of causing more swirls or scratches. With cleaner/waxes though, heavier application usually means the cleaners in the wax will work a little bit better. If you need the benefit of the cleaners, apply it with a little more pressure, otherwise all you need to do is spread it thinly over the surface. Same with buffing...buff with the lighest pressure that will remove the wax or polish residue.
Good Luck!
------------------
*My 1992 Camaro RS 25th Anniv.*
Dark Red Metallic (ext.) / Flame Red (int.)
Flowmaster Crossflow, K&N, 20% 3M Panther Black Tint
JL Audio 3 10", PPI PC2100, other Kenwood & Pioneer goodies...
Show Car Shine by ZainoBros! - Thanks Sal!
Yeah, I always thought the Royal Velvet were good towels, but after using even better quality towels, they feel like sandpaper by comparison! It's no wonder they cause light marring on my finish. I still think Noble Choice and POLO are great towels too, but you can't go wrong with Charisma either.
Jeff,
Don't be so hard on yourself, we've all been there before I'm sure, I know I have! About the swirl removers, you'll need to use moderate pressure for the light swirl removers. The abrasives in the swirl removers have to be broken down into a finer polish for them to do the job properly. So, a lot of it is effort and elbow grease, especially with 3M products. Other than that, the instructions on the bottles will tell you the best way to apply the product. For the wax though, you want to use light pressure. The wax doesn't need to be rubbed in for it to work right. In fact the lighter you apply it the less chances of causing more swirls or scratches. With cleaner/waxes though, heavier application usually means the cleaners in the wax will work a little bit better. If you need the benefit of the cleaners, apply it with a little more pressure, otherwise all you need to do is spread it thinly over the surface. Same with buffing...buff with the lighest pressure that will remove the wax or polish residue.
Good Luck!
------------------
*My 1992 Camaro RS 25th Anniv.*
Dark Red Metallic (ext.) / Flame Red (int.)
Flowmaster Crossflow, K&N, 20% 3M Panther Black Tint
JL Audio 3 10", PPI PC2100, other Kenwood & Pioneer goodies...
Show Car Shine by ZainoBros! - Thanks Sal!
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 135
From: Port Neches, TX
Mike,
Just wanted to let you know I appreciate the help. I spent yesterday and today washing, claying, polishing, etc. I'm happy to say that the car looks 10 times better! The SMR took off a ton of the oxidation/discoloration on my front and rear bumpers. The black roof and mirrors look great, too. The entire car is like glass - very smooth.
Unfortunately, my car sleeps outside, but I'm glad I took the time to clean the car up. I should be able to maintain the cars finish by just washing it regularly with a mild car wash, correct?
If the weather is nice tommorrow, I might go out and take some new pictures. Anyway, thanks for the help. Car is looking great.
Just wanted to let you know I appreciate the help. I spent yesterday and today washing, claying, polishing, etc. I'm happy to say that the car looks 10 times better! The SMR took off a ton of the oxidation/discoloration on my front and rear bumpers. The black roof and mirrors look great, too. The entire car is like glass - very smooth.
Unfortunately, my car sleeps outside, but I'm glad I took the time to clean the car up. I should be able to maintain the cars finish by just washing it regularly with a mild car wash, correct?
If the weather is nice tommorrow, I might go out and take some new pictures. Anyway, thanks for the help. Car is looking great.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,564
From: Memphis, TN
Hey Jeff!
Sounds great man!! From what you described, you did great prep work, which as you see, makes a huge difference. In the end, whether you use Zaino, Meguiar's, Pinnacle, whatever, the prep stage is one of the biggest factors in final outcome. The wax, regardless of what you use, is just the icing on the cake usually. Glad to hear everything is looking up!
Mike
------------------
*My 1992 Camaro RS 25th Anniv.*
Dark Red Metallic (ext.) / Flame Red (int.)
Flowmaster Crossflow, K&N, 20% 3M Panther Black Tint
JL Audio 3 10", PPI PC2100, other Kenwood & Pioneer goodies...
Show Car Shine by ZainoBros! - Thanks Sal!
Sounds great man!! From what you described, you did great prep work, which as you see, makes a huge difference. In the end, whether you use Zaino, Meguiar's, Pinnacle, whatever, the prep stage is one of the biggest factors in final outcome. The wax, regardless of what you use, is just the icing on the cake usually. Glad to hear everything is looking up!
Mike
------------------
*My 1992 Camaro RS 25th Anniv.*
Dark Red Metallic (ext.) / Flame Red (int.)
Flowmaster Crossflow, K&N, 20% 3M Panther Black Tint
JL Audio 3 10", PPI PC2100, other Kenwood & Pioneer goodies...
Show Car Shine by ZainoBros! - Thanks Sal!
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 135
From: Port Neches, TX
Mike,
Just wanted to say thanks for the advice once again. I took some digital pics and started a thread here: http://web.camaross.com/bb/Forum26/HTML/014358.html
Thanks again bud!
Just wanted to say thanks for the advice once again. I took some digital pics and started a thread here: http://web.camaross.com/bb/Forum26/HTML/014358.html
Thanks again bud!
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
lil_mikey69
Automotive News / Industry / Future Vehicle Discussion
46
Oct 16, 2005 07:42 AM