The builder,the operator and everyone in between

 

you guys say its all the same but they really arent. and its this way of thinking that makes these motors fall apart. different specs and tolerances play a huge factor. funny how the guys that say its just another small block are the ones who havent dealt with gen2 or gen 3 blocks.

as for experienced guys, there arent very many out here that have ANY experience with gen 2 or gen 3s.

you seem to lump gen 3s with gen 1s and hondas, but there all different engines, you cant just go to a jack of all trades shop. with the newer motors you have to go to a guy who specializes. i would never take a honda motor to a shop that builds sbc's all day long, thats just retarded. and its just that way of thinking that results in failures, the builders fail to do research and just put together a bunch of nuts and bolts like you say. gee i wonder why a lot of gen 2s and gen 3s fail, its builders who think like you.

have some ltxs or lsxs put together then come talk to me.

what failed we arent too sure i havent had a chance to talk to him, it went to the shop on sunday night. but what we do know is that there is no oil pressure, resulting in a turbo failure, damaged lifters, possibly damaged crank (may need repolishing), and lack of oil pressure is never good for any bearing. ofcourse since he still had severe blowby after the rebuild his rings probably never seated.

the only mistake the operator made was to go to these hacks, but i guess the end result would have been the same with any shop.

why wasnt i surprised

and andy the guy shelled out over 6500, so i dont know what a guy has to pay around here to get a motor that runs reliably.

 

HPE = High Performance Engines

High Performance Engines Ltd
(604) 299-6131
4329 Buchanan Street
Burnaby, BC

 

aka burnaby high performance. these guys are highly recomended by a lot of people, but then again so were other shops that have had horror stories.

 

You still havent told me what makes these things so magical that only specialists can work on them. A bottom end, is a bottom end. There is different specs for each bottom end and you FOLLOW them and adjust until your measurements are within spec. It is no different than any other mechanical operation. These magical specialists are not pulling numbers out of their asses, they are following the same specs I would follow. You keep the engine within spec, and keep up on what parts fail on that engine (what TSBs are for) and build within spec and the engine will not fail under normal use. Find out what failed before you get off on a rant telling people what they do, and do not know.

If the oil pump failed, its not the engine builders fault unless you paid him to measure the pump clearances and sonic test it. However, if the pickup tube falls off, or the bearings are too tight, or the lifters are in backwards, then its the builders fault. For them not to stand by their work and take it apart and find out whether they ****ed up, or whether a part ****ed up is not a sign of a good shop. Any decent engine builder will stand by his work. What did he pay in labour? Not parts, just labour.

 

thats the thing builders obviously dont follow specs and treat them like sbc. it doesnt matter what failed, when he got the truck back, the shop told him there was going to be no warranty because he brought them his own bottom end. and regardles of the oil pump failure, the rings were still unseated, he was geting sever blow by during the whole break in procedure. that should not be. what that shows me is shoddy workmanship.

i dont knwo what he paid for labour , it may have been 3500. i do know he spent over 6500 on the whole build up. were thinking its the pickup tube because the pump is supposed to be a new high flow unit, you can take the filter off start up the truck and the oil just dribbles out, it should pour out.

 

Richmond engines has been great for me what experice may i ask have you with them. I am really getting sick of the wanabe no it alls. Yes there are lots of sketchy shops and you have to use the right amount of judgement when you deal with them. Bringing in your parts to a shaddy shop is bad judgement. Let the shop supply the parts if it is a good shop they will get it cheaper then you can and they will warranty there work afterwards. People that cut corners only end up screwing themselve. You might save a couple hundred bucks on the one end but know he is out a couple thousand. I am just really getting sick of a certain two people bitching with local shops when they have little to any experience with them. I know of two other local 383s running around perfectly. My motor is doing extremely well and i couldnt be happier with there work there patience for me and there experience.
Later Mike and quit the complaining

 

complaing or warning? or a bit of both. bringing in your own parts which are brand new does save a lot of money. what does that have to do with warranty?? what does that have to do with rings not seating? this shop is not shady they do a lot of rebuilds, they do a lot of advertising they sell a lot of motors. these guys are recomended by a lot of local mechanics. whatever, you guys go to your locals just dont complain when i say i told you so.

 

Ahh I thought so. My stuff is there right now.

As far as I know no shop will warranty any other's parts unless purchased through that particular shop. The will only warranty the install of the parts. The manufacturer of the parts will only warranty those parts if an approved shop installs them to guarantee proper installation. This is what 99% of these two types of buisinesses(machine shop or supplier) follow and always have.

 

I would like to hear exactly how many engines of ANY type Roy has put together???

Roy, I know you are trying to start this Canadian High Performance of yours, but rule NO#1: Never slag the competition! Let your own performance do the talking. One day you will disrespect a shop that one of your potential customers has spent a lot of money at and you will indirectly insult his judgement...just my 2 cents

 

WTF are you talkign about??? all we do is istall STS kits, headers cam etc. does it say anywhere on my site we build motors??? get your head checked, id sooner send my motor off to texas then to build here. were a installs only shop. as far as insulting a customers judgement i had warned him about going to a local shop before his rebuild. unfortunatly he wsa short on time and made a quick decision.

i tried to have a motor put together long time ago, was supposed to be this crazy motor with a bunch of goodies, back when i didnt know anything. got ripped off and have been collecting and parting parts ever since, havent settled on anything deffinate. since then ive been thru more parts then you got on your car buddy, just cant make up my mind. i was gonna go huge cam, then huge cam and heads, then emmiisions legal cam and heads, then cam and nitrous, then heads cam and nitrous, then supercharger, then supercharger and nitrous, now ive settled on the STS turbo. unfortunatly i got more parts and time then money to actually complete anything. so dont talk to me about what motors ive put together, ive researched plenty of proven combos, and i know what works and what doesnt.

 

Rings didnt seat doesnt always mean a bad build. Who tuned it how was it broken in running pig rich so the rings get washed out in the first 20 minutes of it running there are many variables. Also like Zed zag said nobody will warranty a part if it doesnt come directly from them regardless if it is new or not. Like i have said in the past due some research on your own see how many bad motor and lemons have come out of ARE or even MTI. Nobody is perfect in the real world and cutting corners doesnt make it any better. I paid the extra long route just to save on bs. I could have bought my own parts built the damn thing myself and just got the machining done. But no i paid the cash for new parts supplied from them the whole motor was built and assembled by them cause for 400 bucks for assembly of a long block you cant go wrong. Hell I even spent money on dynoing the motor and breaking it in on there dyno. Now my hands are clean if i have a problem it is there problem i may have paid a little more in the long wrong but my motor is covered top to bottom. IF i have a problem i dont have to ship across the damn map to have it dealt with. So my thing is if you want to pay the price there are plenty of shops that have more experince then half of these onlin wanabe shops. You just have to open your eyes and pay the proper price.
Later
Mike

 

assembly for $400?, how much were the parts though. they charged this guy over 3k for labour alone.

 

It doesn't make much sense to say that the local engine builders don't know how to build the gen2 and gen3 small blocks if you yourself don't know the different tollorances they are suppose to have. You could be right, but it's hard to tell without the facts. One thing is for sure though, if you compare the facilities of local shops to the facilities in the states there is a night and day difference. The US market is so huge compared to Canada so they can afford state of the art equipment. Checkout this shop: http://www.livernoismotorsports.com/...?gk=81&t=photo
There is no way our local market could support a shop like this.

 

i think its you that has your head up your ***. these are not magical motors you speak of, and they require all the same things any other bottom end requires weather it be this or a small block ford, or a buick motor. and as i do have alot of experience in the field, i must say you are blowing smoke out of your aas. there are alot of top builders locally here that can build tons of killer, reliable motors. dont put down shops that you obviously know nothing about them and cant even tell me the difference between those 3 motors to begin with. ring clearance, bearing clearance, part fit, and bolt torque are the main key things to any bottom end, its pretty simplified, you follow spec and the bottom end will be good. more often then not its you guys and your hot computers "tuning" things and washing the rings down or improperly breaking in a motor, that causes a premature failure or less then stellar performance from blowby.