Help me win this court case (easy one)
03-05-2003, 03:01 PM
#16
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Vancouver, BC CANADA
Posts: 578
I'm not denying that you have good points Payam, in my opinion I think they are valid and truthful. BUT in a court of law, emotion, speculation and assumptions will get you nowhere. Fact and evidence dictates judgment, and that's why you *may* be in trouble:
FACT: You were stopped by a peace officer.
FACT: You were told to go home.
FACT: You did not go home (no one cares why).
FACT: You were stopped a second time, by the same officer.
FACT: The police officer can follow you for any valid reason
without explanation. He has been entrusted by the state
to have more authorative power than a civilian.
FACT: You received a ticket.
Moreover, alternate factors come into effect - your ticket for your ALLEGED lack of a turn signal shows the judge your poor judgment when operating a motor vehicle. You probably have a thick Motor Vehicle file (like many of us here, myself included
) that is riddled with speeding tickets, traffic violations, etc. that also illustrate your poor judgment. Therefore, the judge is able to rule in the officer's favor on grounds of reasonable doubt. If it was me, I'd try to get full disclosure to be prepared what the officer's defence is. It will be hard to get an adjournment for the lengthy delay becuase the courts are too backed up right now for judge's to grant adjournments to every offender - too many politics involved.
Like I said before, I hope you win and that my counter-arguemnts are wrong
.
FACT: You were stopped by a peace officer.
FACT: You were told to go home.
FACT: You did not go home (no one cares why).
FACT: You were stopped a second time, by the same officer.
FACT: The police officer can follow you for any valid reason
without explanation. He has been entrusted by the state
to have more authorative power than a civilian.
FACT: You received a ticket.
Moreover, alternate factors come into effect - your ticket for your ALLEGED lack of a turn signal shows the judge your poor judgment when operating a motor vehicle. You probably have a thick Motor Vehicle file (like many of us here, myself included
) that is riddled with speeding tickets, traffic violations, etc. that also illustrate your poor judgment. Therefore, the judge is able to rule in the officer's favor on grounds of reasonable doubt. If it was me, I'd try to get full disclosure to be prepared what the officer's defence is. It will be hard to get an adjournment for the lengthy delay becuase the courts are too backed up right now for judge's to grant adjournments to every offender - too many politics involved.Like I said before, I hope you win and that my counter-arguemnts are wrong
.
03-05-2003, 06:00 PM
#17
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,251
Originally posted by LuCiFeR97Z28
You don't have an adequate defence. Although you are innocent, you will probably be found guilty becuase police officers can follow you as long as they want before issuing you a ticket, as long as they have a valid reason for it. If you speed on the highway for example, an officer may wait several miles to observe your driving patterns in detail before issuing you a ticket. My guess is that this officer is going to tell the judge that you explicitly disobeyed his warning and did not go home when asked to do so. The judge will rule that the officer gave you enough of a "warning" and accordingly find that you're guilty. Just my $0.02, but I hope you prove me wrong.
Good luck.
You don't have an adequate defence. Although you are innocent, you will probably be found guilty becuase police officers can follow you as long as they want before issuing you a ticket, as long as they have a valid reason for it. If you speed on the highway for example, an officer may wait several miles to observe your driving patterns in detail before issuing you a ticket. My guess is that this officer is going to tell the judge that you explicitly disobeyed his warning and did not go home when asked to do so. The judge will rule that the officer gave you enough of a "warning" and accordingly find that you're guilty. Just my $0.02, but I hope you prove me wrong
.Good luck.
He will not show up, trust me on that one. If it's a large ticket that's going to effect hes monthly quota then they make some sort of effort to show. One thing i've learned is they do not get paid for the time in court. Durring monthly payroll they add up all there court time and are deducted the pay for how ever many hours they spend it court.
03-05-2003, 06:30 PM
#19
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Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: North Delta, BC, Canada
Posts: 133
First off this is a Provincial Violation Ticket(Motor Vehicle Act), Not a Charter Issue. Payam is not charged criminally.
Second, Payam got pulled over for doing a U-turn. PO told Payam to go home. Payam did not follow PO's Advise. Payam got pulled over a second time, by the same officer. Payam mouths off officer, becomes very aggrivated; Payam starts demanding things out of the officer. Officer backs off, goes back to car to write ticket, which he has every right too. Payams buddies start yelling and screaming at officer while he writes the ticket. (Remember the officer is taking notes). Who looks like the bad guy now.
F**k when in doubt be courteous and show respect. May get you out of some situations.
Payam you were in a known Street Racing Problem Oriented Spot, you were given a chance to leave. You didn't. PO got technical because you failed to leave. Another question you might want to ask your self is, Why were you in PK when you live in Port Moody?
Second, Payam got pulled over for doing a U-turn. PO told Payam to go home. Payam did not follow PO's Advise. Payam got pulled over a second time, by the same officer. Payam mouths off officer, becomes very aggrivated; Payam starts demanding things out of the officer. Officer backs off, goes back to car to write ticket, which he has every right too. Payams buddies start yelling and screaming at officer while he writes the ticket. (Remember the officer is taking notes). Who looks like the bad guy now.
F**k when in doubt be courteous and show respect. May get you out of some situations.Payam you were in a known Street Racing Problem Oriented Spot, you were given a chance to leave. You didn't. PO got technical because you failed to leave. Another question you might want to ask your self is, Why were you in PK when you live in Port Moody?
Last edited by phil94-T/A; 03-05-2003 at 06:33 PM.
03-05-2003, 06:54 PM
#20
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Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: North Vancouver, BC
Posts: 1,213
Originally posted by phil94-T/A
First off this is a Provincial Violation Ticket(Motor Vehicle Act), Not a Charter Issue. Payam is not charged criminally.
First off this is a Provincial Violation Ticket(Motor Vehicle Act), Not a Charter Issue. Payam is not charged criminally.
03-05-2003, 08:18 PM
#21
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 3,843
Originally posted by phil94-T/A
Second, Payam got pulled over for doing a U-turn. PO told Payam to go home. Payam did not follow PO's Advise. Payam got pulled over a second time, by the same officer. Payam mouths off officer, becomes very aggrivated; Payam starts demanding things out of the officer. Officer backs off, goes back to car to write ticket, which he has every right too. Payams buddies start yelling and screaming at officer while he writes the ticket. (Remember the officer is taking notes). Who looks like the bad guy now. F**k when in doubt be courteous and show respect. May get you out of some situations.
Payam you were in a known Street Racing Problem Oriented Spot, you were given a chance to leave. You didn't. PO got technical because you failed to leave. Another question you might want to ask your self is, Why were you in PK when you live in Port Moody?
Second, Payam got pulled over for doing a U-turn. PO told Payam to go home. Payam did not follow PO's Advise. Payam got pulled over a second time, by the same officer. Payam mouths off officer, becomes very aggrivated; Payam starts demanding things out of the officer. Officer backs off, goes back to car to write ticket, which he has every right too. Payams buddies start yelling and screaming at officer while he writes the ticket. (Remember the officer is taking notes). Who looks like the bad guy now.
F**k when in doubt be courteous and show respect. May get you out of some situations.Payam you were in a known Street Racing Problem Oriented Spot, you were given a chance to leave. You didn't. PO got technical because you failed to leave. Another question you might want to ask your self is, Why were you in PK when you live in Port Moody?
1) i DID go home after i was advised, i had to drop off the girl to her ride
2) i NEVER mouthed off the cop.. merely told him that doing a U turn is NOT illegal.. and the second time, i asked for his name and badge # POLITELY and was refused... after he refused to communicated, i politely asked for his supervisor, no response.. it was like talking to a brick wall.
3) noone was yelling at him, they were just trying to talk some sense into him and explain why i had to come back to tim hortons to drop off the girl before i get on the highway
4) i was in PK because we were going to a friends house, i was following my friends, the leader got lost and missed buddy's house and had to pull into a side street to LEGALLY pull a U turn.
03-05-2003, 09:37 PM
#22
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Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: North Delta, BC, Canada
Posts: 133
Ok my quote on the Charter did not come out the way I meant it to come out......yes all the bull about protection is included, what I meant to say was that it is hard to make a charter case out of a Provincial Ticket when none of his Charter rights have been violated.......anyways.........
No you did't go home, because if you went home you wouldn't have been pulled over the second time. :P
Anyways....I wasn't there, and I don't know the "REAL" circumstances.
Payam just hope the PO doesn't show up to court.
i DID go home after i was advised, i had to drop off the girl at her ride.
Anyways....I wasn't there, and I don't know the "REAL" circumstances.
Payam just hope the PO doesn't show up to court.
03-05-2003, 09:46 PM
#23
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Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: North Vancouver, BC
Posts: 1,213
Originally posted by phil94-T/A
[B]Ok my quote on the Charter did not come out the way I meant it to come out......yes all the bull about protection is included, what I meant to say was that it is hard to make a charter case out of a Provincial Ticket when none of his Charter rights have been violated.......anyways.........
[B]Ok my quote on the Charter did not come out the way I meant it to come out......yes all the bull about protection is included, what I meant to say was that it is hard to make a charter case out of a Provincial Ticket when none of his Charter rights have been violated.......anyways.........
Payam, I read that you can indeed request an adjournment in order to file the paperwork if you haven't already done so. This is what I would do if I were in your shoes.... and that would give you time to file for disclosure as well.
Good luck man, you gotta be on the road this summer and I am sure you can strike at least this ticket down
03-06-2003, 12:34 AM
#26
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Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 3,843
so craig: u say i can get it adjourned on the grounds that i havent done the paperwork for the lengthy delay yet !? the court date is on the 11th .. i'll goto the court on friday morning and see if i can .. but thats only 4 days before the date 
doubt they'd go for it ... but i'll tell them i have an exam and i need more time to do the proper paper work
craig: can u send me a link to that form u spoke of ?
thanx everyone for ur inputs i got 3 more tickets comin up in april i'll be postin about those too shortly 
doubt they'd go for it ... but i'll tell them i have an exam and i need more time to do the proper paper work craig: can u send me a link to that form u spoke of ?
thanx everyone for ur inputs i got 3 more tickets comin up in april
i'll be postin about those too shortly
03-06-2003, 01:50 AM
#27
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Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: North Vancouver, BC
Posts: 1,213
Here is one, but its for someone in Ontario. You should be able to modify it for BC... however I would check with the courthouse or possibly even a lawyer.
http://www.magma.ca/~fyst/question.htm
http://www.magma.ca/~fyst/question.htm
03-06-2003, 01:52 AM
#28
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Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: North Vancouver, BC
Posts: 1,213
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