i think the problem is the fact you newer generation guys hate stuff that seems old lol, yes there are alot of tuning options with FI but there are still lots with carb, its alot cheaper, simplified, and its meant for performance. its just me but when i build a hot car my main concern isnt pollution and gas mileage. thing with a carb is you can run more aggresive cam, have way more tuning ability in the manifold and runners and still make within 98-99% of a well tuned FI system under WOT. to each his own though right. also i like the fact that theres no wires, or electronics running my car, if something goes wrong it has to be a physical failure, with FI theres alot more that can happen, its more cluttered too. basically if the car came with it id leave it, but if i was doing something new and swapping a bunch of stuff or in an older car id stay carb, makes compatibility alot easier

 

i think its the other way around, the older generation guys hate efi.

 

hate it no, value our money, yes lol like i said before if the car was oem setup for it, then keep it. but why go to FI and cost 5x as much

 

if i were to start from scratch i would do efi for sure. but thats me and i know didley squat about carbs.

 

Everything you just said is dead wrong, sorry bro, you can run way more cam with FI then any carb set up, I'm not saying anything bad, I just think that you didn't read what I wrote since you turn around and say the complete opposite.

PS. it is the older carb guys that hate the newer EFI guys, because nothing they ever say makes any sense, and here is one example:

Mission race way old guy at TECH =

67 Mustang with open headers = PASS!
95 Trans AM with cut out = FAIL! Never come back here until you get a muffler before the cut-out.

 

ok, well if they can run such larger cams? then when am i gonna see a 270 at 0.050 with .730 lift and a 107 lca in a fi car? and im not talking about a total aftermarket system with FAST etc and a manifold made for carb. i mean a LT1 or LS1 system. will never happen, cuz it cant.

and why are you so bitter about that tech guy still? no car at mission SL has open header they are all muffled systems. and what mustang was it? sound is proportional to power and how quick your car is. of course a 10 sec car will make racket, but its the same for everyone the slower you car they crack down on the noise.and no they dont look at mph only and it helps to run outlaw too, they are more lieniant in that class.

 

Actually there was an older mustang with straight open headers, I couldn't belive it, muffled sounds different then not.

Also, most people referr to advertised duration in the carb world not at .050, second yes you an run bigger with FI, 270* on solid roller can be done, 270* on hydraulic roller no way on a 350.

You're basically saying that if I dumped a bucket of fuel and hoped it would atomize to an extent with no vacume I would run better then atomizing the fuel right at the valve and making sure every cylinder got the same amount of fuel and air, remember that we have idle air passages right at the port so at part throttle/idle most air comes directly to the intake ports instead of throught the butterfly, stop arguing, you won't win

 

yes while your injector atomizes fuel better its already at the valve when it comes out, carb systems have a way more efficient manifold system that aids in the saturation if the air/fuel mix. where as an FI setup uses air only passage. and in the performance world nobody goes by advertised, they go by .050 cuz its a std of measurment on a cam, advertised ratings very greatly between cam manufacturers and lifter type. my cam at 252/260 at .050 has over 300 deg advertised, yet my 230/235 at .050 had a 290+ rating advertised. lobe rates, lifters types, valvetrian geometry are all factors that change greatly. solid cams have a totally diff adv setup then a hyd. setup. when i say 270 at .050 thats about 330 deg adv. but that means nothing cuz nobody uses adv to compare cams. measured at the valve is a constant thats why its used.

besides nobody makes a big hyd. roller cam. biggest ive seen is 250 at .050, i mean put a real racecam in your car and watch your FI fritz out. if carb is so bad, why is it so widely used in racing. why does a nascar make upwards 800hp n/a out of 358 cid and run to 9500rpm on a single 4 barrel carb and not miss a beat?

 

i think someone posted in another section that efi was outlawed.

 

yes outlawed cuz its never been FI, stock car racing goes to its grass roots, thats why they work with "older" tech, yet it still performs astoundingly. not everything has to be complicated to work good if you care about aircare, and a bit better gas mileage then FI is good, but cost to performance and simplistic reliability is what i like about carb, its gets the job done, every time, no electronic and laptop grimlins to fight with constantly.

 

The closer the fuel is to the valve the more efficient the delivery my friend, Carb is used exactly cuz of that, its outlawed, the only folks that will tell you carb can take a bigger cam then the FI is those numb nutz that don't tune, those are the same bums at comp cams that advertise their cams as "fuel injection friendly", translation= stock computer friendly.

I don't see a carbed car idling at 800 rpm smoothly with 24X/25X on 109 LSA cam Hydraulic roller LOL.

Efficient intakes? may you just like the long runners, no worries, look at LS1's for efficiency, those carb intakes, most of them are good for low end power cuz of the longer runners and die up top.

Also, you keep forgetting, we are talking stock cubes, you can always find a massive cam if you have a massive bottom end.

blah I guess I'll just keep one thing in mind, never argue with a retard, they'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience

 

ooooooooooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhh



if efi is outlawed then obviously companies have no choice but to spend tens of thousands of dollars on carb research, if it was open to efi there is no doubt efi would rule.

 

well what can i say, if you think carb is such trash, then i guess being beat by a carb will be that much harder for you. what you dont understand either is for your "stock computer" and "tuning" the same goes for carbs, you dont throw a stock carb thats untuned onto a combo, you have to tune it and set it up for exactly what you want.

and if you dont think carb can be close to FI then refer to the popular hotrodding post a while back where they tested a LS1 EFI and then threw on a basic carb intake and carb, untuned it made only an avg of 5hp down and about 1hp less at peak area. now with some fine tuning you can get that to about within 2-3hp easy. to me for something thats 1000's less the ability to fine tune runners and port volumes. it aint so bad. no wiring, dont need high pressure fuel systems, injectors etc.

carb+intake+spacers for fine tuning vs. throttle body+intake+harness+injectors+laptop+software+a partridge in a pear tree

like i said before, if your car has all of that thats fine and dandy but why buy all of that stuff and mess with it when you dont have to, spend the money somewhere else. besides, yes we agree FI has better street characteristics, fine were not talking about that, in racing, red light idle quality and part throttle fuel consumption are of no concern, were comparing able racing performance here. for you, obviously street and cruising quality are your top priority. all i care about is the performance. if i did i wouldnt have a 5000 stall converter, tranny brake and 3 gears we not deniying fuel injection is good here, you just seem to think that carb is junk, but in reality it can keep up and keep things in simplicity.

just cuz a fuel delivery system that was invented 100 years ago can keep up, you dont have to get angry about it

heres that article, good read: http://popularhotrodding.com/tech/0409phr_gmpp/