Stock bottom end?
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Registered User
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 48
From: Neptune Beach, FL
Stock bottom end?
I have a 99ss LS1. Don't know what all exactly has been changed on it, nor have I put it on a dyno. Ran a low 12 with it once. I'm going to assume a stock bottom end because I didn't do it myself, nor have I pulled the oil pan to check it. I've slowly been building my nitrous setup on my work bench and just about have everything ready to put in the car. I have a direct port intake plumbed with a nitrous and fuel solenoid for each side, Jacob's nitrous mastermind rpm based progressive controller, pressure regulated bottle heater, etc. Over all a very complete system. I still need to get a stand alone fuel system.
With a setup like this, how much of a shot do you think i'd be able to push through it before I was risking the bottom end? It will still be about 6 months before I finish things...and hopefully only 6 months... I just wanted to start thinking about how much juice I want to run through this engine. I used to run juice through my 85 camaro, but I didn't care about that car quite as much and definitely pushed it's limits in a few ways.
Thanks for the help.
With a setup like this, how much of a shot do you think i'd be able to push through it before I was risking the bottom end? It will still be about 6 months before I finish things...and hopefully only 6 months... I just wanted to start thinking about how much juice I want to run through this engine. I used to run juice through my 85 camaro, but I didn't care about that car quite as much and definitely pushed it's limits in a few ways.
Thanks for the help.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 997
here is a very good thread to answer this question
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=551332
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=551332
Originally Posted by blacktransam
Ok this is coming from the request of some and the fact that I'm tired of reading 3 of these posts a day; you guys need to learn to use the damn search button. Brains has this site working very well and you guys ignore the majority of its functions..
Now for the question, if you want the honest to God answer to that question.. here it is.. None NADA ZERO ZILCH.. NOT A ****ING DROP.. Your car was not engineered to do anything but what it was designed to do in stock form.. I say this cause I don't want some kid with a V6 to put a 200 shot on it.. blow it up and blame me..
Now this question has many variables.. and you will hear everything from a 75 shot on stock fuel to 150 to 200 on bolt on only motors.. the amount of nitrous the stock LS1 can handle is really not your question.. what you want to know is the potential power output to the wheels of your motor reliably and consistently..
In my hoest opinion you can push a stock bottom end LS1 to the 600RWHP area WITH A SAFE TUNE for a long time.. now what is a safe tune??
My personal definition of a safe tune is one conservative on timing and a safe A/F.. RICHER IS NOT ALWAYS BETTER.. you can get to a point of cylinder wash down and begin lifting ringlands blah blah.. this is not something you want done by joe shmoe with HP tuners.. this is going to have to be done by a reputable pro on a dyno.. its prob not going to be cheap and its probably going to take a while..
Now the nitrous horror stories.. every one on here has heard the stories and has that one friend who says nitrous is so bad.. The best I can tell this basically stems from some time ago.. LONG before the technology of today.. with what these guys like Ricky and them know about atomization and fuel puddling you guys are seeing the safest and most potent nitrous kits ever to hit the market.. the days of the Blown off manifolds and such, while still happening, are not nearly as common..
Now what you all wanted to know.. what does it take to push the stock LS1 and how far will it go..
I like to go from personal experience.. not what I have heard.. in order to spray a 200+ shot into your car make sure you have plenty of fuel.. a a/f in the 11's is what i prefer.. some say thats rich.. but I also like to give my car a 200 hit on pump gas from time to time.. a conservative timing setting of 24-26* is ideal in my eyes.. and ALL the proper supporting equipment.. Fuel pressure safety switch.. Window switch.. race gas in HIGH HP applications any thing you can do.. you can not be to safe..
Guys the stock bottom end is alot tougher than most make it out to be.. and if you use your spray wisely and conservatively your LS1 will take a 200+ shot for a long time to come.. make sure your tune is spot on.. make sure you have your supporting equipment in place..
and enjoy handing those FI guys, like CAT3 wants to be, there asses when they least expect it..
Mike
Now for the question, if you want the honest to God answer to that question.. here it is.. None NADA ZERO ZILCH.. NOT A ****ING DROP.. Your car was not engineered to do anything but what it was designed to do in stock form.. I say this cause I don't want some kid with a V6 to put a 200 shot on it.. blow it up and blame me..
Now this question has many variables.. and you will hear everything from a 75 shot on stock fuel to 150 to 200 on bolt on only motors.. the amount of nitrous the stock LS1 can handle is really not your question.. what you want to know is the potential power output to the wheels of your motor reliably and consistently..
In my hoest opinion you can push a stock bottom end LS1 to the 600RWHP area WITH A SAFE TUNE for a long time.. now what is a safe tune??
My personal definition of a safe tune is one conservative on timing and a safe A/F.. RICHER IS NOT ALWAYS BETTER.. you can get to a point of cylinder wash down and begin lifting ringlands blah blah.. this is not something you want done by joe shmoe with HP tuners.. this is going to have to be done by a reputable pro on a dyno.. its prob not going to be cheap and its probably going to take a while..
Now the nitrous horror stories.. every one on here has heard the stories and has that one friend who says nitrous is so bad.. The best I can tell this basically stems from some time ago.. LONG before the technology of today.. with what these guys like Ricky and them know about atomization and fuel puddling you guys are seeing the safest and most potent nitrous kits ever to hit the market.. the days of the Blown off manifolds and such, while still happening, are not nearly as common..
Now what you all wanted to know.. what does it take to push the stock LS1 and how far will it go..
I like to go from personal experience.. not what I have heard.. in order to spray a 200+ shot into your car make sure you have plenty of fuel.. a a/f in the 11's is what i prefer.. some say thats rich.. but I also like to give my car a 200 hit on pump gas from time to time.. a conservative timing setting of 24-26* is ideal in my eyes.. and ALL the proper supporting equipment.. Fuel pressure safety switch.. Window switch.. race gas in HIGH HP applications any thing you can do.. you can not be to safe..
Guys the stock bottom end is alot tougher than most make it out to be.. and if you use your spray wisely and conservatively your LS1 will take a 200+ shot for a long time to come.. make sure your tune is spot on.. make sure you have your supporting equipment in place..
and enjoy handing those FI guys, like CAT3 wants to be, there asses when they least expect it..
Mike
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,146
From: Denton/Rockwall, TX
Really, I have seen a guy running a dual stage 275 shot on a stock LS1 bottom end for 2+ years. I have always heard LS1's can handle more nitrous tha an LT1 stock for stock. As long as its set-up correct and tuned right I wouldn't see a problem. Everyone tells me a 150 is way to much for a stock LT1 bottom end. Been running it just fine for 8 months, about a bottle a week, on a 140k mile motor. I just make sure I have all of the safety features.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 997
the reason behind Chris' comment is to the fact that anything above 150hp creates a whole new set of problems.
If we told people it is OK to spray a 250 shot on a stock motor there would be alot of upset customers because it takes a very good grasp of nitrous tuning to be able to run that size shot on a stock motor. Can it be done, yes, is it easy, no.
The LT1 is actually a better platform for running large shots on due to the head bolt design.
If we told people it is OK to spray a 250 shot on a stock motor there would be alot of upset customers because it takes a very good grasp of nitrous tuning to be able to run that size shot on a stock motor. Can it be done, yes, is it easy, no.
The LT1 is actually a better platform for running large shots on due to the head bolt design.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,146
From: Denton/Rockwall, TX
the reason behind Chris' comment is to the fact that anything above 150hp creates a whole new set of problems.
If we told people it is OK to spray a 250 shot on a stock motor there would be alot of upset customers because it takes a very good grasp of nitrous tuning to be able to run that size shot on a stock motor. Can it be done, yes, is it easy, no.
The LT1 is actually a better platform for running large shots on due to the head bolt design.
If we told people it is OK to spray a 250 shot on a stock motor there would be alot of upset customers because it takes a very good grasp of nitrous tuning to be able to run that size shot on a stock motor. Can it be done, yes, is it easy, no.
The LT1 is actually a better platform for running large shots on due to the head bolt design.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 125
I have a 93 Camaro Z28 214,000 miles on my car original motor been running 100 shot for several months if i had to guess probably gone through 16 bottles on a 100 shot and another 4-5 bottles on 125 but just went to 125 a couple of months back and now i got my new chip 6 degrees retard timing and gonna put it back on the dyno to get A/F and adjust my fuel accordingly for a 150 shot.
Last edited by karpetcm5; Aug 8, 2007 at 07:05 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,475
From: Garland, tx
ive seen documented 250 for 2 years...285 for one run on the dyno that happened to add timing instead and the motor lifted a ringland...it should have been fine if it want for a mishap on installer error...(bolt on only z06)
heard of 350 pills put in for a few runs...the last runs on this motor before it was pulled apart and it bent a rod slightly...it was running when pulled apart...might not have lasted another run...car was on the bumper both runs as this was outa the hole....
the limit isnt the shot! lt1 or ls1 or anything for that matter... (as long as you break it up so it isnt one huge torque spike) (assumung you have fuel and correct timing ect)
mostly in how you use it, we all know boost is safer and notice both ways to make boost dont allow full boost until you get higher in the rpm, higher rpm is less cylinder pressure...so if you hit a big shot then a smaller shot at a higher rpm where cylinder pressure is dropping you can make nitrous work similar to the way boost does...by upping power in the higher rpm....thus greatly improving capabilities of your motor and power output without the cost of boost
the limit is somewhere in the 650-700 ft/lb range (6 speed at the wheels) ls1
i know you can make 550-600 for a while and be fine...
ray where did you get those pics from?
and i sent dave a message i think one of my niods has a problem....
heard of 350 pills put in for a few runs...the last runs on this motor before it was pulled apart and it bent a rod slightly...it was running when pulled apart...might not have lasted another run...car was on the bumper both runs as this was outa the hole....
the limit isnt the shot! lt1 or ls1 or anything for that matter... (as long as you break it up so it isnt one huge torque spike) (assumung you have fuel and correct timing ect)
mostly in how you use it, we all know boost is safer and notice both ways to make boost dont allow full boost until you get higher in the rpm, higher rpm is less cylinder pressure...so if you hit a big shot then a smaller shot at a higher rpm where cylinder pressure is dropping you can make nitrous work similar to the way boost does...by upping power in the higher rpm....thus greatly improving capabilities of your motor and power output without the cost of boost
the limit is somewhere in the 650-700 ft/lb range (6 speed at the wheels) ls1
i know you can make 550-600 for a while and be fine...
ray where did you get those pics from?
and i sent dave a message i think one of my niods has a problem....
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 997
the pics were from www.yellowbullett.com ....give me a call about your problem
