What kind of numbers are people getting with this combo
08-03-2003, 02:47 PM
#1
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What kind of numbers are people getting with this combo
This is what im planning for my rebuild. i got a core motor to start playing with so im getting ready to dig in. Scat 9000 series 3.75 stroke crank, reconed factory rods with arp bolts, keith black hyper pistons (this is for a natural asp set up, so im not concerned with forged pistons). For a cam im looking at a cc306 but am open to suggestions from people with similar combos, and a set of lloyd elliot ported lt1 heads with 2.00/ 1.56 valves. My goal with this combo is to go low 12s with my other mods in sig added in in a 3500 lbs car. The other option is same pistons and rods but to regrind the factory crank, is the extra stroke worth the new crank (not that its that much more for a scat than a regrind) thanks for the help guys. Prorac1
08-03-2003, 03:24 PM
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Thanks for the reply, yeah, from what ive been hearing Powerhouse (i think thats who it was) has a set up for sale that reads like this. Scat 9000 series cast crank, scat rods, kb pistons, speed pro rings and berings for just over 700. Might not be a bad way to go. prorac1
08-03-2003, 03:45 PM
#4
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dont waste your time with factory rods. Just get some nice 6'' rods, wont cost much more.
I chose to go with combination motorsports heads over lloyds for an extra $300. I am not allowed to release my flow numbers, but from .100 lift to .400 lift I had an average of ~15 cfm on lloyd.
After that point aroudn .500 cfm the heads were within a few CFM of each other. Most cams aren't lifting over .550 so I think that these heads are worth it. LLoyd does provide an exceptional "bang for the buck" though. I think he charges $1200 for fully assembled heads. Combo charges about $1500. I dont know if lloyds includes the same stuff combos does or vice versa. Both have great turn around time. Concidering head are where the power went, i chose to spend a bit more money on combos heads. You know your budget better than I do.
Then again flow numbers aren't the end all, velocity is exeptionally important, especailly in a "low revving" motor. The shape of the combustion chambers is another issue as is the exhuast ports and yada yada... I dont know enough to explain it all, but i do know enough to understand that flow numbers aren't the end all, particalarly peak flow numbers.
Rich likes the Xe series of cams, and since he is more or less my "teacher", suprise- I like them too. I do a lot of BSing with seth over at combo and he explains some stuff. hes a pretty smart guy and he likes Xe cams too.
As rich explains all too frequently, cams are all give and take. no magical cam. Lift is more or less a "freebie" so long as your valve train can support it. LIFT is a trade off as well though.More lift = more valvetrain stress (would stress be a good word?) IMO, lift away! Taking his advice, I got he Xe 36/242 with .608 lift intake and .576 on the exhuast. pretty steep for a hydrolic roller so i just beefed up the valvetrain as much as i could. Some Comp R lifters, Titanium retainers and locks, VERY still springs (relativly speaking)
I definatly agree with winner (for a change
. Get the 3.75'' crank. 28 cubes are definatly worth $100. (after what it costs to turn your crank)
I chose to go with combination motorsports heads over lloyds for an extra $300. I am not allowed to release my flow numbers, but from .100 lift to .400 lift I had an average of ~15 cfm on lloyd.
After that point aroudn .500 cfm the heads were within a few CFM of each other. Most cams aren't lifting over .550 so I think that these heads are worth it. LLoyd does provide an exceptional "bang for the buck" though. I think he charges $1200 for fully assembled heads. Combo charges about $1500. I dont know if lloyds includes the same stuff combos does or vice versa. Both have great turn around time. Concidering head are where the power went, i chose to spend a bit more money on combos heads. You know your budget better than I do.
Then again flow numbers aren't the end all, velocity is exeptionally important, especailly in a "low revving" motor. The shape of the combustion chambers is another issue as is the exhuast ports and yada yada... I dont know enough to explain it all, but i do know enough to understand that flow numbers aren't the end all, particalarly peak flow numbers.
Rich likes the Xe series of cams, and since he is more or less my "teacher", suprise- I like them too. I do a lot of BSing with seth over at combo and he explains some stuff. hes a pretty smart guy and he likes Xe cams too.
As rich explains all too frequently, cams are all give and take. no magical cam. Lift is more or less a "freebie" so long as your valve train can support it. LIFT is a trade off as well though.More lift = more valvetrain stress (would stress be a good word?) IMO, lift away! Taking his advice, I got he Xe 36/242 with .608 lift intake and .576 on the exhuast. pretty steep for a hydrolic roller so i just beefed up the valvetrain as much as i could. Some Comp R lifters, Titanium retainers and locks, VERY still springs (relativly speaking)
I definatly agree with winner (for a change
. Get the 3.75'' crank. 28 cubes are definatly worth $100. (after what it costs to turn your crank)
08-03-2003, 05:59 PM
#5
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eh trey, lloyd's work aint that close in price to combos. my heads cost 900 with no core charge plus i didnt have to pay for return shipping. combos are 1500 plus a core charge, plus shipping to them for the cores, and back to get the new heads.
lloyd is where its at
I am a a believer that the minute amount of power you gain by getting a larger lift cam is easily offset by the extra wear on the valvetrain. Seth told me this as well.
lloyd is where its at
I am a a believer that the minute amount of power you gain by getting a larger lift cam is easily offset by the extra wear on the valvetrain. Seth told me this as well.
08-03-2003, 08:44 PM
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Originally posted by thewinner
eh trey, lloyd's work aint that close in price to combos. my heads cost 900 with no core charge plus i didnt have to pay for return shipping. combos are 1500 plus a core charge, plus shipping to them for the cores, and back to get the new heads.
lloyd is where its at
I am a a believer that the minute amount of power you gain by getting a larger lift cam is easily offset by the extra wear on the valvetrain. Seth told me this as well.
eh trey, lloyd's work aint that close in price to combos. my heads cost 900 with no core charge plus i didnt have to pay for return shipping. combos are 1500 plus a core charge, plus shipping to them for the cores, and back to get the new heads.
lloyd is where its at
I am a a believer that the minute amount of power you gain by getting a larger lift cam is easily offset by the extra wear on the valvetrain. Seth told me this as well.
Seth suggested my cam which is pushing over .600 lift on a street and hydrolic roller cam.
Why do you have an Xe cam then
and as far as seth vs lloyd,
I think that lloyds heads complete with springs, retainers, rocker studs, fererra valves and whatnot are well over 900 - core
think about it
$900 -$200 core -$150 valve job -$160 valves - $50 shipping= $440. Then subract springs (~$200) and all the other crap he is making about $150 a head.
Are you reffering to the set of heads that he did for you at cost because he ****ed up your old heads? and isn't that why there wasn't a core?
A few people posted $1200 complete and shipped.
Nothing against lloyd whatsoever, I actually inquired about his heads and came pretty close to buying them twice. My friends here at school who have looked at his work say he does a great job.. but if you are bringing in the heads he did for almost nothing- are comparing apples to oranges. Because if thats the case, I'll tell you how much combo charged me for my heads, then lloyd work would look like a fferrari's mark up. but thats completely irrelivant.
Then again I could tell you that my friend got similar numbers (a little lower) and he only charged me $200. Guess lloyd and combo are both scams huh
08-03-2003, 09:03 PM
#7
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god you ignorant immature ****.
portwork-$350
seals-$30 (used to be $25 but they are more now from Young Chevrolet)
valve job-$100 (or if we are cutting for larger valves it would be $200)
hmm looks like i paid lloyd himself 580
bought valves and springs and studs from combo, that was 280
shipping to lloyd was 20 bucks (dont know who rapes you on shipping heads for 50 bucks)
880 dollars. half of what you paid. please stfu now.
supacharged 22: you dumb****
supacharged 22: http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...04#post1195504
LT1guy95: uh ok
supacharged 22: copmplete heads from lloyd are not $900 no core
LT1guy95: um mine were
supacharged 22: the set he ****ed up?
supacharged 22: or the set he did cheap
LT1guy95: the ones that i first had
supacharged 22: complete?
supacharged 22: what springs
supacharged 22: what valves
supacharged 22: valve job?
LT1guy95: yup
LT1guy95: everyhting
LT1guy95: ready to bolt on
LT1guy95: combos springs
supacharged 22: ohh the everything springs?
supacharged 22: they make a lot of springs
supacharged 22: i dont think they are $900 complete any more bud
supacharged 22: its $500 just for port work now
supacharged 22: just the cost of valves and a valve job and shipping make it $900
LT1guy95: well i know what i paid
LT1guy95: you think what you want
supacharged 22: add a core and its $1100
supacharged 22: add hot tanking, springs, yada yada and its back around $1200+
LT1guy95: god ur stupid i swear
supacharged 22: so what are you
supacharged 22: you constantly ask me questions:-P
LT1guy95: dont be pissed cause you paid twice the amount i did for heads
supacharged 22: im not
supacharged 22: by heads kick the **** out of your heads
supacharged 22: and i paid less than you so **** you
supacharged 22: and my heads wont ruin my motor
LT1guy95: uh huh
LT1guy95: you paid 1500
supacharged 22: the **** i did
supacharged 22: and why are u backing a guy that didn't deck the heads and caused you to blow your motor
LT1guy95: why would i back you instead?
supacharged 22: i didnt blow your motor :-)
supacharged 22: no one asked you to back me
portwork-$350
seals-$30 (used to be $25 but they are more now from Young Chevrolet)
valve job-$100 (or if we are cutting for larger valves it would be $200)
hmm looks like i paid lloyd himself 580
bought valves and springs and studs from combo, that was 280
shipping to lloyd was 20 bucks (dont know who rapes you on shipping heads for 50 bucks)
880 dollars. half of what you paid. please stfu now.supacharged 22: you dumb****
supacharged 22: http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...04#post1195504
LT1guy95: uh ok
supacharged 22: copmplete heads from lloyd are not $900 no core
LT1guy95: um mine were
supacharged 22: the set he ****ed up?
supacharged 22: or the set he did cheap
LT1guy95: the ones that i first had
supacharged 22: complete?
supacharged 22: what springs
supacharged 22: what valves
supacharged 22: valve job?
LT1guy95: yup
LT1guy95: everyhting
LT1guy95: ready to bolt on
LT1guy95: combos springs
supacharged 22: ohh the everything springs?
supacharged 22: they make a lot of springs
supacharged 22: i dont think they are $900 complete any more bud
supacharged 22: its $500 just for port work now
supacharged 22: just the cost of valves and a valve job and shipping make it $900
LT1guy95: well i know what i paid
LT1guy95: you think what you want
supacharged 22: add a core and its $1100
supacharged 22: add hot tanking, springs, yada yada and its back around $1200+
LT1guy95: god ur stupid i swear
supacharged 22: so what are you
supacharged 22: you constantly ask me questions:-P
LT1guy95: dont be pissed cause you paid twice the amount i did for heads
supacharged 22: im not
supacharged 22: by heads kick the **** out of your heads
supacharged 22: and i paid less than you so **** you
supacharged 22: and my heads wont ruin my motor
LT1guy95: uh huh
LT1guy95: you paid 1500
supacharged 22: the **** i did
supacharged 22: and why are u backing a guy that didn't deck the heads and caused you to blow your motor
LT1guy95: why would i back you instead?
supacharged 22: i didnt blow your motor :-)
supacharged 22: no one asked you to back me
08-03-2003, 09:12 PM
#8
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now lloyd gets caught in the middle of this:
T1guy95: you paid 1500
supacharged 22: the **** i did
supacharged 22: and why are u backing a guy that didn't deck the heads and caused you to blow your motor
LT1guy95: why would i back you instead?
supacharged 22: i didnt blow your motor :-)
supacharged 22: no one asked you to back me
LT1guy95: yup my heads cost 880
supacharged 22: cool
supacharged 22: they sucked
supacharged 22: i'll **** your heads up for $200
LT1guy95: neato
supacharged 22: your braggin about how cheap a set of heads were that ruined your motor
LT1guy95: dont be pissed you paid twice as much for heads that are marginally better
supacharged 22: marginally? ha
supacharged 22: twice as much? ha
LT1guy95: not really his fault, i didnt get them decked
supacharged 22: not even close
supacharged 22: you told him to deck them if they needed to be
supacharged 22: he shoulda decked them regardless, who the hell rebuilds heads and doesnt check for flatness
LT1guy95: machine shop charges him to put em on the milling machine no matter if they need to or not
LT1guy95: theres not a real good way to check for flatness without putting them on a milling machine
supacharged 22: ok, problem being
supacharged 22: ...
supacharged 22: forget it, i dont want to hear it
supacharged 22: if your stupid enough to ****ed in *** that hard and like it, there is no talking sense into you
LT1guy95: you tell me you can see .006 inches with your eyes?
supacharged 22: no
supacharged 22: but if i was porting heads, i would have every set of heads milled .010
supacharged 22: its standard operating proceedure
LT1guy95: yep
LT1guy95: i didnt know that then though
supacharged 22: and you still defend his heads
supacharged 22: and his work
LT1guy95: until i get the car on the dyno and see results, yes
LT1guy95: if it sucks, sure, ill stop promoting em
supacharged 22: his incompitance caused you to blow your motor.
LT1guy95: its an honest mistake
LT1guy95: hes reimbursed me for it
LT1guy95: i can deal with it
lloyds heads cost well over $900 and no core right now. Who cares what you paid for them.
you forgot the rest of the conversation
T1guy95: you paid 1500
supacharged 22: the **** i did
supacharged 22: and why are u backing a guy that didn't deck the heads and caused you to blow your motor
LT1guy95: why would i back you instead?
supacharged 22: i didnt blow your motor :-)
supacharged 22: no one asked you to back me
LT1guy95: yup my heads cost 880
supacharged 22: cool
supacharged 22: they sucked
supacharged 22: i'll **** your heads up for $200
LT1guy95: neato
supacharged 22: your braggin about how cheap a set of heads were that ruined your motor
LT1guy95: dont be pissed you paid twice as much for heads that are marginally better
supacharged 22: marginally? ha
supacharged 22: twice as much? ha
LT1guy95: not really his fault, i didnt get them decked
supacharged 22: not even close
supacharged 22: you told him to deck them if they needed to be
supacharged 22: he shoulda decked them regardless, who the hell rebuilds heads and doesnt check for flatness
LT1guy95: machine shop charges him to put em on the milling machine no matter if they need to or not
LT1guy95: theres not a real good way to check for flatness without putting them on a milling machine
supacharged 22: ok, problem being
supacharged 22: ...
supacharged 22: forget it, i dont want to hear it
supacharged 22: if your stupid enough to ****ed in *** that hard and like it, there is no talking sense into you
LT1guy95: you tell me you can see .006 inches with your eyes?
supacharged 22: no
supacharged 22: but if i was porting heads, i would have every set of heads milled .010
supacharged 22: its standard operating proceedure
LT1guy95: yep
LT1guy95: i didnt know that then though
supacharged 22: and you still defend his heads
supacharged 22: and his work
LT1guy95: until i get the car on the dyno and see results, yes
LT1guy95: if it sucks, sure, ill stop promoting em
supacharged 22: his incompitance caused you to blow your motor.
LT1guy95: its an honest mistake
LT1guy95: hes reimbursed me for it
LT1guy95: i can deal with it
lloyds heads cost well over $900 and no core right now. Who cares what you paid for them.
you forgot the rest of the conversation
08-03-2003, 09:13 PM
#9
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Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 2,148
When I posted head numbers, and a dyno sheet, all anyone wanted to see were strip times. Now it seems all anyone cares about is flow numbers, and yet ooh, interestingly low dyno numbers and slow strip times! Isn't it strange.
08-03-2003, 09:17 PM
#10
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Posts: 1,090
Originally posted by treyZ28
lloyds heads cost well over $900 and no core right now. Who cares what you paid for them.
Obviously you cared, or you wouldnt have made the price comparision.
you forgot the rest of the conversation
kinda hard to post a conversation that happens after you post it
lloyds heads cost well over $900 and no core right now. Who cares what you paid for them.
Obviously you cared, or you wouldnt have made the price comparision.
you forgot the rest of the conversation
kinda hard to post a conversation that happens after you post it
08-03-2003, 09:21 PM
#11
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Originally posted by thewinner
dollar for dollar, cant beat lloyds heads and a lower lift cam
dollar for dollar, cant beat lloyds heads and a lower lift cam
and again, it doesn't matter what you paid, it matters how much they cost. Thats why i didn't say how much i paid for my heads.
08-03-2003, 09:26 PM
#12
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think about the supporting components needed to support that extra lift. no **** cams cost the same. springs and lifters dont.
running high lift requires springs that cost about 2 times as much as the ones i have, upgraded lifters ( granted i have r lifters cause i needed to get new ones, and they were only 30 bucks more)
running high lift requires springs that cost about 2 times as much as the ones i have, upgraded lifters ( granted i have r lifters cause i needed to get new ones, and they were only 30 bucks more)
08-03-2003, 09:34 PM
#13
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Originally posted by thewinner
think about the supporting components needed to support that extra lift. no **** cams cost the same. springs and lifters dont.
running high lift requires springs that cost about 2 times as much as the ones i have, upgraded lifters ( granted i have r lifters cause i needed to get new ones, and they were only 30 bucks more)
think about the supporting components needed to support that extra lift. no **** cams cost the same. springs and lifters dont.
running high lift requires springs that cost about 2 times as much as the ones i have, upgraded lifters ( granted i have r lifters cause i needed to get new ones, and they were only 30 bucks more)
the whole advanced tech crowd is going high lift low durration but you beg to differ, may I ask you your qualifications?
08-03-2003, 09:47 PM
#15
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high lift, low duration? look at the eliminator cars. limited to stock lift with whatever duration they want. they seem to make power.
how much power do you honestly think you will get over a lower lift cam? maybe 10-15hp at peak? thats what seth said to me. said its not cost effective as well. gotta buy more expensive springs, lifters. not to mention change springs more often.
how much power do you honestly think you will get over a lower lift cam? maybe 10-15hp at peak? thats what seth said to me. said its not cost effective as well. gotta buy more expensive springs, lifters. not to mention change springs more often.