I have noticed lately that when I shut off the engine, sometimes it smells like coolant. Not always, tho.. Yesterday, I looked under the car after I shut it off and there's coolant dripping!!! I had noticed before that the area around the weep hole on the WP looked like it got wet at some point, but I figured I would wait until it really is wet all the time. Well... I guess that time is now. However, it seems like the coolant was not coming out of the weep hole this time, but from behind the WP, then it drips around the edge of the opti and from there on the floor. I guess it's coming out around the water pump shaft, right? The opti is still orginal and has 103Kmiles on it, same for the timing chain. BTW, I guess the opti is sealed pretty good to the front of the engine, because it still drives fine. Maybe the venting of the opti saves me there....

So my question is: With that many miles on those parts and having to take off the WP, wouldn't it make sense to also replace the opti and timing chain? If I am replacing the opti, I will replace with a completely new one from Sam Smith or one of those guys, I have read about that enough not to try anything else but that. But what about the WP and chain, would you recommend all stock parts from GM or do you have any other advice? BTW, I think I will stay with a mechanical WP...

Thanks!

Sam

 

I bought a complete opti for 195.00 from jason cromer.

The water pump i got it from autozone for only 50.00 1year warranty .

I chose to go ahead and change the timing set( i am not a mechanic). It was a rather tough job for me because i couldnt get the oil pan dropped. If you have done it before go for it though. I bought i timing set form autozone for 105.00!

Changing the opti and waterpump was easy. The timing chain swap gave me some problems.

 

Oh yeah.... Forgot about the oil pan... Do you really have to drop it? What's all invloved in that?

Sam

 

Replacing the opti and chain increase the job a good bit. I'd just do the pump and wait on the opti and chain. The water pump isn't that bad a job. Just takes patience. I did mine in 3 hours piddling around and probably an hour of that was scrapping gaskets...

By the time you need one, there will probably be a good solution with the opti-eliminator (LTCC). If you do decide to do it, I noticed Summit has a new Lunati timing set for $107...

 

Yeah... I am starting to realize that.... I just don't want to do it twice and with 103K on everything.... maybe I'll just replace the WP and knock on wood... I do think I have a weak spark, as it sometimes hesitates at low RPM's, but that could just be the coil or wires (pretty new plugs)

If I do just the WP, it'll go much quicker if I have to the opti later, because I will have done it before!

Anybody else have an opinion on keeping the opti and timing chain on there after 103K?? I am starting to think "If it ain't broken, don't try and fix it!"

Thanks for the responses so far...

Sam

Thanks

 

I would highly recommend changing the opti/wp and timing set and all three timing cover seals. I recently replaced my cam/lifters/opti/timing set and all gaskets and seals. I didn't replace the WP because I just did that about 10k miles ago.

Yes it will be a little more work and expense, but you have over 100k miles and don't to go back in again any time soon.

I found my timing chain a little loose with only 55k miles. I replaced it with the extreme duty timing set which is much more stout and fits tighter than the wimpy oem chain. Also, you should check the WP drive shaft assembly and bearing. I replaced mine and not just the gear on the shaft that meshes with the timing set. I understand the shaft can wear as well as the gear and the bearings. No sense reinstalling a $40 wear item.

Get some tips on removing the hub and replacing the seals/gaskets before you start.

 

Are there any good write-ups out there on all of this?

Also, does anybody have some experience with the Lunati timing set?

Thanks!

Sam

 

I just started this job after doing the OPTI and waterpump about 3K ago. My chainbroke at 53K and now I'm back in there.....it's not bad at all replacing the opti and pump but the chan is a little tougher. I didn' t know that you had to drop the oil pan to get the chain though...why?

Yeah....I would just do it all

 

Well, i thought the oil pan seal is attached to the timing cover seal or something like that, so when you tak off the timing cover it breaks the seal on the oil pan. But then I remember reading about some people that cut the seal and then use RTV and don't mess with the oil pan. I know this sounds pretty unclear, but I have read about this at some point, I just don't remember all the details. It would be nice to have someone confirm the situation.

Thanks!

Sam

 

The thing to bear in mind is that if the timing chain does go you will quite possibly be doing head work after the valves clatter up against the pistons. This will get very expensive, I can assure you;I have direct experience with this problem. So, with a timing chain at 100K+, you should think very seriously about doing the tc.

 

That is my feeling too, but lots of people still say not to replace anything that still works... I looked a little more into the amount of work and I think it's not too bad. The only thing I don't have a good feel for is the oil pan seal. How likely is that gonna be a problem? It seems like some people did not have a problem with it at all...

Any ideas on that?

Sam

 

Sam, listen carefully.

If you don't want to tear the rubber seal removing the timing cover or reinstalling the timing cover or increase the likelihood of an oil leak....drop the fecking pan a half inch.

It is not that hard, but will take some time and patience to reach all the bolts. Once you get into this project and see for yourself the way the pan, the block and the timing cover are fitted together you will realize that this is the intelligent step to take.

I'm sure there is at least one Houdini out there that managed to spare the seal and not have a leak by doing this without dropping the pan. Perhaps there is another that used a tube of RTV sealant to repair a ripped seal. But I wouldn't take the chances that the magic will work for you.

 

OK... OK... I am sure I will see that when I am working on it. Thanks for the tips! I am just trying to get as much info before I start to avoid nasty surprises during the job. This is my daily driver, so I can't afford too many time-consuming surprises

Thanks a lot!

Sam

 

Well, I replaced the WP, opti and timing chain and all 3 timing cover seals last weekend. That was a lot of work! Mayeb I am a little **** about cleaning stuff, but I want it as clean as possibel before I put it back together, took me probably about 4 hours to clean everything.

Taking you guys' advice, I dropped the oil pan a little. On an M6 it's not that big a deal as it looked when I first got under the car. After you drain the coolant, you can get the oil cooler lines off relatively easy. The bolt are reasonably accessible after that, except the ones under the oil cooler. I found out that a crescent wrench will fit in between the oil pan lip and the oil cooler, making it possible to loosen the last two bolts also, but it is TERRIBLY slow, you will have to be patient! After the oil pan is dropped a little, it is still hard to get the timing cover off, but it did not rip the oil pan gasket. In hindsight, I think my engine was leaking a little from that place. I cleaned it all off good and used a good amount of Ultra Black RTV when I put it back together and I have been driving it for over a week now and it's still perfectly clean!!

I was surprised to find the timing chain in pretty much the same shape as the new one I put on. You could see some wear on the sprockets, but the chain was only a little bit looser than the new one was. I put the new one on anyways, just for security.

About the opti: The car ran fine up to the day I tore it apart, ran pretty good all the time actually. But with the new opti (and coil) on: MAN!!! WHAT A DIFFERENCE!! I used to have this little hesitation at low rpm when you step on the throttle... well, it's completely gone. The car pulls much harder all through the rpm range, but it's especially noticable around 2K. I have to say that my opti had 105K on it though... The bearing felt still good. I am trying to open it now, so that I can what it looks like in there.

Anyways, just wanted to say thanks to you guys and let you know how it went!

Sam

 

Sam, we're glad to hear it worked out well for you. That front seal is prone to leakage after a cam/timing chain swap. I hope yours stays dry.

Did you use the GM ED timing set? I found that set was much tighter than my oem chain (w/55k miles).