I have been considering a cam swap for some time now and believe I have settled on the Crane 227 (looking for power under the curve on a stock headed car).

For those with this cam, what is your exact setup? Looking for pushrods, rockers, studs, springs, retainers, lifters, everything.

I was thinking of going with:
Crane 227 camshaft
7.200" Pushrods (would you recommend chromoly or just hardened?)
Undecided on valve springs
7/16" studs
7/16" Proform 1.6 full roller rockers (SA or NSA?)
OEM replacement lifters
Any ideas on retainers would be welcomed as well.

How does that list look for initla thoughts on a cam change, disregarding all the required gaskets. I hear a lot of talk about upgrading to the LT4 Extreme Duty timing set at this time as well. Would you recommend it?

Anything else I am missing?

 

No thoughts?

 

I had that Crane cam with Crane dual springs with a top end package for many years. I dyno'ed 348/349. I'd recommend Non-SA rockers. But only get the Profrom rockers if you are on a tight budget. The GMPP HD LT1 timing set has worked well for me.

 

Any other ideas on this one? I just need to get a good parts list going.

Don what other supporting mods did you have at the time of that dyno? Just bolt ons? Any track numbers?

 

I don't go to the track, so no numbers to report. When I dyno'd then I also had slp headers, CNC'd heads and 52mm TB. The crane steel retainers are stout, but that seemed heavy. I eventually swaped them for the titanium versions. There are a number of good replacement rods. I forget what I had, and am not sure what to recommend.

 

Don why would you recommend the non-sa rockers over the sa rockers?
I have been looking at the 227 cam also.

 

When I was running the crane 227 cam I was running crane 1.6 s/a rockers, double springs ( I think the crane double springs but I'm not sure since they were on it when I bought the car). I was getting valve float over 5800 RPM's with that setup, and with an a/f in the 11's it put dyno'd 352/356 and went 12.4@115.1 at the track. I'm sure with better heads, new springs, and a good tune I could have hit 118 with that setup.

 

97SS, M-6 4-bolt main. Crane 227, Crower 1.6 SA RRs, hardened PRs, ported stock heads, SLP shorties, 4.10 Rear, MSD-6A, AS&M 52 MM TB, March Undedrives (2 Pulley), PCM for Less, NGK Plugs. Holley Air Filter (scoop).

Lots of lowend with the 227 and 4.10s. Shorties not as good as LTs in the low end, but I believe they work pretty well in upper range----maybe compensating for the low-end cam and 4.10s.

 

The reason why I have a stroker now is that one of the SA high dollar Crower stainless RRs came off the valve tip, beat the retainer to death, dropped a valve and grenaded my engine. I just don't like the concept of SA RRs.

 

Don: Same thing happened to me---original engine with 7 grand on the odom took a crap after, I believe, a bad cam install. My new 4-bolt replacement short block, experienced a couple of those crowers coming off the valve them, beating the crap out of the retainer and keeper and dopping a valve---luckily there was no damage to the piston.

My springs, at the time, were mariginal for my 227---they were good for 550 on the exhaust, whereas my cam w/1.6rrs was at 552 on the exhaust----to close for comfort. Anyway, I changed to crane dual springs in an attempt to gain more control over the valves.

Not sure why the SAs came off, but as you mention, it does happen. My advise would be to go with either non-sa rrs, or shaft mounted rrs if you have an agressive cam or do high revs.

While I like the idea of SA rrs becuase I question the integrity of a rocker being held in place by quide plates on the prs, I know from experience, as you, that everything has to be up to snuff with SA rrs to avoid experiencing the possiblilty of dropping a valve. Even a bad adjustment could allow the sa rrs to come off the valve stems.

If I had it to do all over again, I would go with shaft mounted rockers, light valves, titanium reatainers, etc. I really believe that the key to power and longevity is a lightweight, well-controlled valve train. JMHO

 

Day-um, Bubba, so the pos SA RRs bit you in the behind too! I was wondering if what happened to me was a freak accident. Maybe not.

I really liked my Crane cam top end and had no plans to change things until my engine imploded.

 

Don: Yup---when I first got my SS (brand new in april 97, I decided I needed to immediately start modding it to catch up with the new LS1s. so one of the first things I did was the RRs-----well, I didn't know what the hell I was doing and saw an ad on the Crower SAs (it also mentioned going with longer PRs. +050s. I believe that it might also have been a factor in the RRs coming off of the stems.

So without actually knowing, I believe it might have been the too long of a pr, the springs being too weak, the rrs being too loose, etc. Guess I will never know now, but all it took was one rev-up for the rrs to come off the stems. A couple of the rrs were off the stems, and one of them beat on the end of the stem, knocking the keepers out resulting in the valve dropping---the rr was also really beaten up had to buy a couple of new rrs.

The lesson, I guess, is to know what the hell you are doing and not pay too much attention to the ads. The valve train is quite simple when you think about it---just a means of transferring the lift of the cam lobe to the valve stems, but the importance of maintaining a controlled, valve opening and closing with the least amount of friction, capable of high revs and aggressive lifts requires careful consideration including geomtry, weight, friction and alignment.

I have a lot of respect for the valve train and am still not sure I have the best setup, especially with still using the SAs.

Actully, stock rockers, seem to have less margin of error when it comes to maintaining control of the valves and I wonder if it might be better to go with the stamped rockers when going from 1.5s to 1.6s/1.65s and foregoing the less friction of the rrs, but going with titanium retainers, heavier springs---and call it a day. Dunno.

 

Bubba, that was some story and hard lesson.

With my new set-up I went with the Crane dual springs and Crane Ti retainers, which are significantly lighter than the Crane steel ones. I went with CC promag 1.6 RRs that were non-SA on 7/16 studs. I feel much better about higher RPMS, but then who knows for sure.

Anyway, my recommendation, based on my limited knowledge, is to stay old school with the rockers: I want guideplates with stainless full rollers.

 

Just see my linky for the mods list. Although I have Ti retainers for my beehive springs I will switch to steel when I do
my head swap. I've seen several sets of Ti retainers with 10-15K miles on them and don't like the way they wear with
the steel to Ti contact. Go with steel retainers for a daily dirver street car. Ti retainers should be checked periodically to
make sure they are not wearing too much. I'll have about 5K on mine when I pull the heads so it will be interesting to see
how much wear there is.

 

Interesting point about the Ti retainers. I agree that the safest bet for a driver is to just use good steel retainers and not the more expensive or exotic Ti stuff.

Keep us posted regarding regarding what wear you find upon tear down.