Stumped....Royally
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Joined: Nov 1998
Posts: 71,094
From: Hell was full so they sent me to NJ
im still refusing to take it to a dealership, just too darn expensive......$500 worth of parts that more than likely werent even messed up....sitting on $1400 of brand new rubber......rebuilt 327........just sitting there going to waste, and im about to say screw it and just sell it.
the only things left that i can think of to do, would be replace the ECM and PCM and possibly the entire steering column........been thinking about getting a diagnostic tester, but the last one i bought had my exact car listed and it didnt do anything except kick on the fans in ABS mode, and for ECM mode, it was like there wasnt anything there at all and the car would actually start.........any ideas?????
1. The "ECM" is the engine control module, and was only used in the 93's. The "PCM" is the powertrain control module in 94-97 models, and is the new name for the old ECM, because they added controls for the 4L60E and T56 trannies in 1994. Your car does not have an ECM and a PCM. It has a PCM. It does have an "EBCM" which is the electronic braking control module, but that has nothing to do with whether your car starts or not. It controls the ABS.
2. You probably bought an Actron $30 code scanner. It does say on the box that it will work with a 94.... but IT WILL NOT. What you bought for $30 is a switch that shorts two pins in the ALDL connector, to flash the codes on the SES light. Unfortunately, 1993 was the last year of the LT1 that you could use that on. In effect, you spent $30 for a paperclip.
3. What is "ABS" mode? What is "ECM" mode? You are claiming that when you hooked up the code scanner that shorted the pins in the ALDL connector, the engine would start fine?
There are a lot of things in your posts that don't add up.
Last edited by Injuneer; Jan 24, 2010 at 09:40 AM.
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Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 27,725
From: Little Rock, AR
well....thats all well and good, but still one problem remains......
i have replaced the starter, battery, key cylinder and ignition switch (today), neutral safety switch, and even disconnected the alarm (was still wired for the alarm, but the alarm box was just totally disconnected), replaced every singe fuse and relay.......thats quite a bit of money......i have even physically traced every single inch of wire in this car and still.....turn the key....nothing......yet if you turn the key to ON and tie into the starter wire and touch it to the positive on the battery....the car will turn over and actually run.......for about 3 seconds.....then its almost like all of the sensors on the engine lose power at the same time, and it dies without even a small sputter......
the car ran fine the last time i drove it.....then i didnt crank it for 2 months.......now im in THIS situation lol
im still refusing to take it to a dealership, just too darn expensive......$500 worth of parts that more than likely werent even messed up....sitting on $1400 of brand new rubber......rebuilt 327........just sitting there going to waste, and im about to say screw it and just sell it.
the only things left that i can think of to do, would be replace the ECM and PCM and possibly the entire steering column........been thinking about getting a diagnostic tester, but the last one i bought had my exact car listed and it didnt do anything except kick on the fans in ABS mode, and for ECM mode, it was like there wasnt anything there at all and the car would actually start.........any ideas?????
i have replaced the starter, battery, key cylinder and ignition switch (today), neutral safety switch, and even disconnected the alarm (was still wired for the alarm, but the alarm box was just totally disconnected), replaced every singe fuse and relay.......thats quite a bit of money......i have even physically traced every single inch of wire in this car and still.....turn the key....nothing......yet if you turn the key to ON and tie into the starter wire and touch it to the positive on the battery....the car will turn over and actually run.......for about 3 seconds.....then its almost like all of the sensors on the engine lose power at the same time, and it dies without even a small sputter......
the car ran fine the last time i drove it.....then i didnt crank it for 2 months.......now im in THIS situation lol
im still refusing to take it to a dealership, just too darn expensive......$500 worth of parts that more than likely werent even messed up....sitting on $1400 of brand new rubber......rebuilt 327........just sitting there going to waste, and im about to say screw it and just sell it.
the only things left that i can think of to do, would be replace the ECM and PCM and possibly the entire steering column........been thinking about getting a diagnostic tester, but the last one i bought had my exact car listed and it didnt do anything except kick on the fans in ABS mode, and for ECM mode, it was like there wasnt anything there at all and the car would actually start.........any ideas?????
http://shbox.com/1/pass_key.html
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 25
From: Texas
.......
ok VATS....wel im going back today to start jacking around with that. im gonna print out all of shoebox's stuff to have as a guide. also, im going to go buy another diagnostic tester, because im HOPING that will tell me something interesting. keep your fingers crossed.....
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 64
From: Ofallon , MO
You need to measure the resistance of the ignition key with a multi meter set on ohms. Then get a resistor at radio shack or an electronics store and insert it between the vats wires. Radio Shack should be able to ohm your key for you also.
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 64
From: Ofallon , MO
You're telling us your car has a "rebuilt 327" in it? How did you accomplish that?
What are you talking about?
1. The "ECM" is the engine control module, and was only used in the 93's. The "PCM" is the powertrain control module in 94-97 models, and is the new name for the old ECM, because they added controls for the 4L60E and T56 trannies in 1994. Your car does not have an ECM and a PCM. It has a PCM. It does have an "EBCM" which is the electronic braking control module, but that has nothing to do with whether your car starts or not. It controls the ABS.
2. You probably bought an Actron $30 code scanner. It does say on the box that it will work with a 94.... but IT WILL NOT. What you bought for $30 is a switch that shorts two pins in the ALDL connector, to flash the codes on the SES light. Unfortunately, 1993 was the last year of the LT1 that you could use that on. In effect, you spent $30 for a paperclip.
3. What is "ABS" mode? What is "ECM" mode? You are claiming that when you hooked up the code scanner that shorted the pins in the ALDL connector, the engine would start fine?
There are a lot of things in your posts that don't add up.
What are you talking about?
1. The "ECM" is the engine control module, and was only used in the 93's. The "PCM" is the powertrain control module in 94-97 models, and is the new name for the old ECM, because they added controls for the 4L60E and T56 trannies in 1994. Your car does not have an ECM and a PCM. It has a PCM. It does have an "EBCM" which is the electronic braking control module, but that has nothing to do with whether your car starts or not. It controls the ABS.
2. You probably bought an Actron $30 code scanner. It does say on the box that it will work with a 94.... but IT WILL NOT. What you bought for $30 is a switch that shorts two pins in the ALDL connector, to flash the codes on the SES light. Unfortunately, 1993 was the last year of the LT1 that you could use that on. In effect, you spent $30 for a paperclip.
3. What is "ABS" mode? What is "ECM" mode? You are claiming that when you hooked up the code scanner that shorted the pins in the ALDL connector, the engine would start fine?
There are a lot of things in your posts that don't add up.
Dwayne, I can certainly understand why you dont want to go to the dealer. I had mine towed to the dealer (no start issue) and they quoted me 2600.00 to fix it. The diagnostic fee was 79.95, and thats what I paid and brought the car home. They were telling me that the water pump leaked on the opti, and the fuel pump was not delivering enough volume, 2600 for parts and labor. It had a brand new Walbro, but what happened was the guy helping me with the car wired the fuel pump direct (no relay) and it was constantly running. I wired it back through the relay and the car started instantly. Imagine that, even with a trashed opti, water pump and fuel pump. I'm glad I only went with the 79.95 special.
Last edited by edz97; Jan 24, 2010 at 11:39 AM.
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Joined: Nov 1998
Posts: 71,094
From: Hell was full so they sent me to NJ
One might question the wisdom of spending $500 on new parts, etc., without even knowing the specifics of the engine. Where people have tried to help him, he's pretty much pushed back and disagreed.
Seems odd to me........ so I'll butt out, and leave it to you guys.
Seems odd to me........ so I'll butt out, and leave it to you guys.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 25
From: Texas
hmmmm
umm...i said a long time ago that any and all help is appreciated, and as far as pushing back and disagreeing goes, i only stated the things that i have already done. i also said a long time ago, i am no mechanic, nor have i pretended to be, and it's pretty obvious that i only know enough to get me by. ive also only been stating the things that ive already done, and meant no disrespect whatsoever and apologize sincerely if i have ever come across that was. im just aggravated as hell that after all the mechanics that told me to buy this and buy that, that the problem still wasnt fixed, and im out $500....just like anyone else would be, but then again, ya know what they say about hindsight, right? trust me, the more help i have, and the more knowlege i can gain from this, the better off i am....REGARDLESS of who teaches me, im always paying attention and taking notes.....ive already gone through a few other guides on here that have helped me fix a few other problems i had, so i simply refuse to bite the hand that feeds. sorry i came across any other way.
as far as the engine size goes....i only repeated what i was told about it. im not good enough to look at an engine and tell you anything other than how many valves it has, and external things. you guys know this car better than i do, and there simply isnt any way i can argue with that
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 371
From: Langley, BC Canada
Sorry to hear your having problems dude. I always try to do tests before replacing as you know, it really adds up!
Anyways, do the VATS test with the resistor has Shoebox and a few others have said. The resistor is a dollar or less and its worth the check. Use a multimeter and find out what the resistor (also called a chip) in your key reads for ohms. Then buy the resistor and use Shoeboxes website to guide you. His site is like the bible for camaro's. LOL
VATS lets the car normally start but then cuts the fuel when the key is not reading correctly.
Shoebox and Injuneer know there shiat so try to work with them as much as possible. They have helped me a lot. Look at there posts 28 tho and 37tho haha
Good luck!
Anyways, do the VATS test with the resistor has Shoebox and a few others have said. The resistor is a dollar or less and its worth the check. Use a multimeter and find out what the resistor (also called a chip) in your key reads for ohms. Then buy the resistor and use Shoeboxes website to guide you. His site is like the bible for camaro's. LOL
VATS lets the car normally start but then cuts the fuel when the key is not reading correctly.
Shoebox and Injuneer know there shiat so try to work with them as much as possible. They have helped me a lot. Look at there posts 28 tho and 37tho haha
Good luck!
Last edited by Oxygen454; Feb 7, 2010 at 10:50 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 548
From: Mantua, NJ, USA
I had a similar problem with my alarm system (Crimestoppers) that I installed myself so I might be able to add some ideas. The previous posts know what they are talking about so follow their advice.
Right now is not the time to be trying to change the software until you resolve this issue. First you need to clarify if your alarm system has remote start capability. If it does, then your alarm module has 2 circuits (with relays) related to starting and ignition kill (besides any others used to lock doors, etc.)
These 2 circuits will each have a relay which can go bad. The relays are either mounted internally to the alarm module or externally. One relay applies power to the ignition circuit to allow the engine to run. The second circuit makes or breaks the starter relay circuit to prevent or allow the starter to work.
Most alarms have a sensor wire to detect the pulses from the distributor (opti) after the engine starts. This sensing circuit is used to disengage the starter once the engine is running and to prevent you from trying to engage the starter if the engine is already running. If the alarm module does not see the engine running after a few seconds, the module kills power to the ignition circuit. A poor connection to the tach wire would cause the engine to shut off after a few seconds if it was remote started. This should have no effect for a normal start.
What you need to do: Eliminate the starter kill/enable relay from the purple wire that runs between the ignition switch and the starter relay. This will not show in factory manuals because it is part of the aftermarket alarm system. It is usually located near the steering column or under the glove box. if the rest of the car is OK (VATS, ignition switch, etc.), that will allow it to crank.
Contact code alarm to get a manual and follow their wires to find the relays if you need to. You may need to take it to a Code Alarm dealer for removal if you can't find all the wires. Also, search this forum as their are hint sheets telling you where most of the alarms connect into the vehicle wiring. This should help you locate any other cut wires or installed relays.
Right now is not the time to be trying to change the software until you resolve this issue. First you need to clarify if your alarm system has remote start capability. If it does, then your alarm module has 2 circuits (with relays) related to starting and ignition kill (besides any others used to lock doors, etc.)
These 2 circuits will each have a relay which can go bad. The relays are either mounted internally to the alarm module or externally. One relay applies power to the ignition circuit to allow the engine to run. The second circuit makes or breaks the starter relay circuit to prevent or allow the starter to work.
Most alarms have a sensor wire to detect the pulses from the distributor (opti) after the engine starts. This sensing circuit is used to disengage the starter once the engine is running and to prevent you from trying to engage the starter if the engine is already running. If the alarm module does not see the engine running after a few seconds, the module kills power to the ignition circuit. A poor connection to the tach wire would cause the engine to shut off after a few seconds if it was remote started. This should have no effect for a normal start.
What you need to do: Eliminate the starter kill/enable relay from the purple wire that runs between the ignition switch and the starter relay. This will not show in factory manuals because it is part of the aftermarket alarm system. It is usually located near the steering column or under the glove box. if the rest of the car is OK (VATS, ignition switch, etc.), that will allow it to crank.
Contact code alarm to get a manual and follow their wires to find the relays if you need to. You may need to take it to a Code Alarm dealer for removal if you can't find all the wires. Also, search this forum as their are hint sheets telling you where most of the alarms connect into the vehicle wiring. This should help you locate any other cut wires or installed relays.