Stock Heads, BRE Custom Cam
05-07-2004, 10:24 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Mukilteo, WA
Posts: 482
Stock Heads, BRE Custom Cam
STOCK HEADS, BAUER RACING ENGINES CUSTOM CAM, THE RESULTS ARE IN!
While the cam isn’t supposed to make stump-pulling low RPM torque, I’m sure I could have improved the numbers below 3000 RPM quite a bit if I hadn’t run out of time on the dyno—I was having trouble getting the A/F ratio right down there.... Otherwise, yeah baby! Over 300 RWHP at 4500 RPM, still more than 350 at 6400 RPM. Exactly what I had hoped for!
The rest of the set-up: Stock, untouched heads; stock head gaskets (heads have never been off the car); stock, untouched intake manifold; stock throttle body (untouched except for the IAC bypass hole enlargement); 1LE bellow; stock, untouched MAF (still has the screen!); “lousy” G2 intake (with 4” sewer pipe and a big K&N cone filter replacing the stock airbox); FLP longtube headers (no cats); through a full 3.5” Mufflex/Borla cat-back exhaust. The car’s an M6 with 4.10’s in the stock 10-bolt and heavy AFS wheels.
Here’s a before/after:
http://www.jonaadland.com/NewPics3/Camdynocompare.JPG
The only non-cam related change from the baseline was replacing the airbox with the sewer pipe and new filter (the baseline also had A/F ratio tuning done on the dyno) as I determined through datalogging at a later date the cut airbox and K&N replacement filter were a significant restriction with the new cam.
No cutout, no electric water pump, no removing the air filter, no removing the belt, no runs with the engine ice cold. It was tested exactly as I’ll be running it at the track.
Here’s a comparison with another baseline run (because I didn’t stay in it long enough on the baseline run above--which was my best--to make this comparison):
http://www.jonaadland.com/NewPics3/Camdynocomp6400.JPG
Here you can see that at my self-imposed shift point of 6400 RPM I gained over 90 RWHP. That’s where the big gains in area under the curve comes from. That’s why big cams are fast. Not peak numbers.
I’m quite pleased with the results. I put forth quite a bit of effort in order to get the most from this swap and spent more money than most people do for a cam swap (this was no “$399 Cam Swap Special” collection of parts) so it should not be surprising that I was rewarded with better results than most people see with a cam. In fact, I would have been quite disappointed had I not. Just think what I could have gotten with an electric waterpump and a cutout!
Also at my current airflow levels the stock TB certainly isn’t doing me any favors.
The biggest of thanks go out to Bret Bauer for putting the package together for me. Not only because of the impressive results, but also for the way he worked with me through the whole process. He answered my questions, educated me and bent over backwards to ensure I ended up with the best possible cam to fit my requirements. I’m 100% confident I ended up with exactly that.
Why bother with a custom cam when I’m not even doing the heads yet?
Well, I decided to do a cam swap. When I do something, I try to do it right. The biggest part of doing it right was choosing the right cam. I researched for months and had my mind made up about 100 times…only to change it again every time. Close to the end I was ==>THIS<== close to just ordering the damn GM 847 and calling it a day. But I knew even the 847 wasn’t “right” for my target RPM range and it could be beat, but I didn’t know how to do it. The more I learned about this stuff the more complicated it became. So, I declared myself unqualified and hired a Pro. I’m glad I did.
My basic goal was to get the most possible area under the HP curve from 4500-6400 RPM as that is what will make my car the fastest at the track (given my arbitrarily chosen 6400 RPM shiftpoint as a compromise in hopes of keeping the stock bottom end alive as long as possible and yet still being fast as possible). It looks to me like I got it. I also wanted the car to be drivable on the street since it is still my daily driver. It is. And of course, the cam will “grow with me” quite nicely when I do get the heads done (hopefully next season).
In short, I’m confident I got the best cam (as well as the rest of the valvetrain) for me and couldn’t have done that without Bret’s help.
Before a bunch of people ask, I’ve chosen not to give out the specs at this time. Bret put a lot of effort into coming up with this package. If anybody wants to copy it, shoot him an email and he’ll be happy to set you up. But the chances are, your requirements aren’t going to be exactly the same as mine. If you don’t want to rev that high, you’d be better off with a different cam. If you’re OK with revving much higher, you’d do better with a different cam. If you care about drivability more than I do, you’d be better off with a different cam. If you don’t care about drivability as much as I do, you’d be better off with a different cam. If you’re worried about emissions, you’d be better off with a different cam. See a pattern here? I highly recommend talking to Bret—he’ll get you the cam that’s the best fit for you.
I’d also like to thank Ion Soltan (Madwolf) for the OBDI conversion and tune. While I did end up changing the tune some, it was really quite close considering he had never tuned for this cam before. Given my lack of tuning experience, there’s no way I could have gotten to where I am now if I had I needed to start from scratch.
Well, that’s what I did, why I did it and those are my results. I’m a happy camper. Just had to share.
While the cam isn’t supposed to make stump-pulling low RPM torque, I’m sure I could have improved the numbers below 3000 RPM quite a bit if I hadn’t run out of time on the dyno—I was having trouble getting the A/F ratio right down there.... Otherwise, yeah baby! Over 300 RWHP at 4500 RPM, still more than 350 at 6400 RPM. Exactly what I had hoped for!
The rest of the set-up: Stock, untouched heads; stock head gaskets (heads have never been off the car); stock, untouched intake manifold; stock throttle body (untouched except for the IAC bypass hole enlargement); 1LE bellow; stock, untouched MAF (still has the screen!); “lousy” G2 intake (with 4” sewer pipe and a big K&N cone filter replacing the stock airbox); FLP longtube headers (no cats); through a full 3.5” Mufflex/Borla cat-back exhaust. The car’s an M6 with 4.10’s in the stock 10-bolt and heavy AFS wheels.
Here’s a before/after:
http://www.jonaadland.com/NewPics3/Camdynocompare.JPG
The only non-cam related change from the baseline was replacing the airbox with the sewer pipe and new filter (the baseline also had A/F ratio tuning done on the dyno) as I determined through datalogging at a later date the cut airbox and K&N replacement filter were a significant restriction with the new cam.
No cutout, no electric water pump, no removing the air filter, no removing the belt, no runs with the engine ice cold. It was tested exactly as I’ll be running it at the track.
Here’s a comparison with another baseline run (because I didn’t stay in it long enough on the baseline run above--which was my best--to make this comparison):
http://www.jonaadland.com/NewPics3/Camdynocomp6400.JPG
Here you can see that at my self-imposed shift point of 6400 RPM I gained over 90 RWHP. That’s where the big gains in area under the curve comes from. That’s why big cams are fast. Not peak numbers.
I’m quite pleased with the results. I put forth quite a bit of effort in order to get the most from this swap and spent more money than most people do for a cam swap (this was no “$399 Cam Swap Special” collection of parts) so it should not be surprising that I was rewarded with better results than most people see with a cam. In fact, I would have been quite disappointed had I not. Just think what I could have gotten with an electric waterpump and a cutout!
Also at my current airflow levels the stock TB certainly isn’t doing me any favors. The biggest of thanks go out to Bret Bauer for putting the package together for me. Not only because of the impressive results, but also for the way he worked with me through the whole process. He answered my questions, educated me and bent over backwards to ensure I ended up with the best possible cam to fit my requirements. I’m 100% confident I ended up with exactly that.
Why bother with a custom cam when I’m not even doing the heads yet?
Well, I decided to do a cam swap. When I do something, I try to do it right. The biggest part of doing it right was choosing the right cam. I researched for months and had my mind made up about 100 times…only to change it again every time. Close to the end I was ==>THIS<== close to just ordering the damn GM 847 and calling it a day. But I knew even the 847 wasn’t “right” for my target RPM range and it could be beat, but I didn’t know how to do it. The more I learned about this stuff the more complicated it became. So, I declared myself unqualified and hired a Pro. I’m glad I did.
My basic goal was to get the most possible area under the HP curve from 4500-6400 RPM as that is what will make my car the fastest at the track (given my arbitrarily chosen 6400 RPM shiftpoint as a compromise in hopes of keeping the stock bottom end alive as long as possible and yet still being fast as possible). It looks to me like I got it. I also wanted the car to be drivable on the street since it is still my daily driver. It is. And of course, the cam will “grow with me” quite nicely when I do get the heads done (hopefully next season).
In short, I’m confident I got the best cam (as well as the rest of the valvetrain) for me and couldn’t have done that without Bret’s help.
Before a bunch of people ask, I’ve chosen not to give out the specs at this time. Bret put a lot of effort into coming up with this package. If anybody wants to copy it, shoot him an email and he’ll be happy to set you up. But the chances are, your requirements aren’t going to be exactly the same as mine. If you don’t want to rev that high, you’d be better off with a different cam. If you’re OK with revving much higher, you’d do better with a different cam. If you care about drivability more than I do, you’d be better off with a different cam. If you don’t care about drivability as much as I do, you’d be better off with a different cam. If you’re worried about emissions, you’d be better off with a different cam. See a pattern here? I highly recommend talking to Bret—he’ll get you the cam that’s the best fit for you.
I’d also like to thank Ion Soltan (Madwolf) for the OBDI conversion and tune. While I did end up changing the tune some, it was really quite close considering he had never tuned for this cam before. Given my lack of tuning experience, there’s no way I could have gotten to where I am now if I had I needed to start from scratch.
Well, that’s what I did, why I did it and those are my results. I’m a happy camper. Just had to share.
05-08-2004, 01:56 PM
#6
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Mukilteo, WA
Posts: 482
Oops, sorry. bret@bauer-racing.com
Yeah, it was a bit rich Ion, but only a little. The biggest changes I made were to the timing--I had to take a lot out, mainly at lower RPMs.
Yeah, it was a bit rich Ion, but only a little. The biggest changes I made were to the timing--I had to take a lot out, mainly at lower RPMs.
05-08-2004, 02:30 PM
#8
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Engineerland
Posts: 1,517
Nice numbers Jon, and i've got to say any time i've dealt with bret he's always gone the extra mile to give me what i want. The cars i've used his cams on always respond ungodly well to the changes. EVEN if that means a SMALLER cam than the car had in it before 
. bret asks a lot of questions before he starts designing a cam for you but thats his whole approach he views it as an entire system and taylors it to what you want. So far i dont think i've ever seen one of his customers that hasnt been satisfied. 
good job bret
. bret asks a lot of questions before he starts designing a cam for you but thats his whole approach he views it as an entire system and taylors it to what you want. So far i dont think i've ever seen one of his customers that hasnt been satisfied. good job bret
05-08-2004, 08:10 PM
#12
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 6,518
I was most impressed by the TQ numbers myself and considering that the motor doesn't even have any of the helpers (bigger TB, electric H2O pump, belt removed, thinner head gaskets like Imppys and a cutout) it makes some impressive HP. I was not so concerned with the 350rwhp number I was more concerned with the gain from what Jon had before. (58rwhp+more) The flat TQ curve is also going to be very useful since the main use of his car is for autoX. 3300-4800rpm the motor makes 350+RWTQ plus he now has a higher RPM range so the car can stay in lower gears longer which is important for autoX. His cam choice was a lot like designing a circle track cam in a lot of aspects.
Best of all these numbers are not BSed, Jon did an independant and scientifc approach to the tests so seeing that makes that 350rwhp even better.
This setup was definately the way I would do it if it was for my car, Jon used all the right parts to do this swap and that is one of the reasons for the gains, not just the "special" cam specs. That's why I am very picky about selling a whole camshaft and valvetrain package, or at least making sure that the right parts are being used, because that is the only way to get the intended results of the camshaft then.
As for the Knock Retard at low RPM that is to be expected since the motor has a pretty high Dynamic Compression Ratio.
I still would like to see what descreening the MAF and the rest of the bolt on mods mentioned above would do for his RWHP numbers. I wouldn't be suprised to see 365-370rwhp with those additions. I would expect 360rwhp with just the head gasket change. As he found out 400+hp at the flywheel is starting to get a little air hungry and the induction system is the best way to find more power in a motor.
As for the cam specs, this cam is smaller than a GM847 cam, but the cam specs are not the only reason for power numbers like this.
Thanks,
Bret Bauer
Best of all these numbers are not BSed, Jon did an independant and scientifc approach to the tests so seeing that makes that 350rwhp even better.
This setup was definately the way I would do it if it was for my car, Jon used all the right parts to do this swap and that is one of the reasons for the gains, not just the "special" cam specs. That's why I am very picky about selling a whole camshaft and valvetrain package, or at least making sure that the right parts are being used, because that is the only way to get the intended results of the camshaft then.
As for the Knock Retard at low RPM that is to be expected since the motor has a pretty high Dynamic Compression Ratio.
I still would like to see what descreening the MAF and the rest of the bolt on mods mentioned above would do for his RWHP numbers. I wouldn't be suprised to see 365-370rwhp with those additions. I would expect 360rwhp with just the head gasket change. As he found out 400+hp at the flywheel is starting to get a little air hungry and the induction system is the best way to find more power in a motor.
As for the cam specs, this cam is smaller than a GM847 cam, but the cam specs are not the only reason for power numbers like this.
Thanks,
Bret Bauer
Last edited by Brent94Z; 04-11-2005 at 09:09 PM.
