AlaskaZ28

Hi all -

So, I need some help. My 95 LT1 6 speed has been randomly deciding not to start for me. At first, I assumed it was just from sitting for the winter. Started up after sitting, but then wouldn't - so I jumped it and it ran/started fine for weeks of back and forth driving of about 20 minutes. Then, it started having trouble turning over and would just barely get going - so I figured it was a battery issue and replaced the battery. Started great, figured the problem was fixed. But, same symptom reappeared so I figured it has to be the alternator, so I replaced the alternator and figured that the problem was solved. However, not so - still having the same problem, but very intermittently. Sometimes is starts perfectly with no problems, other times it turns over (starter is engaging, slowly turning the engine, but not enough to start it) - the more I try, the more the power drops off, until it won't even turn. Get someone to jump me, and after charging for a while it just barely manages to get going again. Any one else had a similar problems - any thoughts on where to go from here? I'll getting tried of getting stranded by this thing.

Injuneer

Have you inspected the battery cable strands for heavy corrosion? Ditto on the surfaces of the side post connectors.

AlaskaZ28

Yep, they all look good - checked the ground too and it's tight. Is it possible that it could be the starter?

Injuneer

See if you can get an eye on the ignition switch, part way down the steering column, operated by a rod from the key cylinder. Starting to see more frequent problems with the switches burning/melting at the harness connector pins.

I've had a dead spot in the starter, but when that was in the right position, starter wouldn't do anything. Other times it cranked fine. Your problem sounds more like an intermittent voltage problem.

AlaskaZ28

Sorry to sound ignorant, but signs should I look for from a bad ignition switch?

AlaskaZ28

Sorry, that last post may not have been clear. When I look at the ignition switch in the column what would be the tell-tail sign that it's bad?

Injuneer

"burning/melting at the harness connector pins."

Read this:

4th Gen F-body Ignition Switch Replacement

AlaskaZ28

Thanks for the picture and the link to the write up on how to replace the switch - extremely helpful! Looks like it might be a bit of a pain to replace.

Before I go pulling it all apart, I just want to check again that you think it couldn't be the starter. I have a buddy (the infamous mechanic 'buddy') who thinks I should do the starter. I'm getting power to everything consistently (gauges, radio, etc.) and I can definitely get a consistent weak effort of the starter to turn, i.e. it's never been the case that I'm not getting power. The buddy is claiming that the starter would get bad after driving the car for a while because it gets heated up from 'dragging' on the flywheel, hence it starts alright cold, then poorly after having driven a while. This was close to my experience, though now it gotten to the point of simply not starting cold either.

Does this rational make any sense? My experience with starters has been what injuneer described where you get a dead spot in it, you knock it a couple times and then the teeth grab again and it starts right up, so I'm at a bit of a loss. Ignition switch seems possible, but I'm just not having any problems described in the write-up where I'm not getting power to the dash, and I consistently get some power to the starter.

Injuneer

I'm maybe a few thousand miles from the car. My knowledge of the symptoms is what you posted above. There is no guarantee that I am 100% correct. I am just offering what I feel are high probability solutions, particularly those that others may have overlooked.

Your buddy could be 100% correct. Every component between the ignition switch and the starter, and the battery and the starter is suspect. You have to methodically investigate each one, and rule it out.

http://shbox.com/1/starter_charging_95.jpg

The writeup suggests tests to determine if 12V power is reaching the switch, and if it's coming out of the switch.

shoebox

The starter wouldn't be dragging causing it to heat up, it just gets hot from ambient engine heat, which can cause resistance in electrical parts to rise. Those kind of things usually happen in the heat of the summer, if they are going to occur.

When the symptoms occur (if repeatable enough), get under the car and jump the starter directly (between the purple wire post and battery positive post on the starter and see if the same slowness occurs. If so, then it is probably the starter. If not, then it is something in the starting circuit (most likely the switch).

Just because you don't have symptoms where the gauges die out, does not mean it is not the switch. There are multiple contacts in the switch and the ones with the most current draw (ex. in starting position) are the ones that will fail, first. Also, the lead pictured above that leads to the starter can obviously have issues.

You can always pull the starter and have it tested, but I would not replace it without doing so.

AlaskaZ28

Thanks for the replies. I, by no means, expect anyone to give a 100% correct diagnosis based off a few online descriptions - I just appreciate the help and guidance, and at the end of the day take full responsibility for want I opt to replace.

The last episode (yesterday) left me stranded and jumping it wasn't enough to get it going, so I got towed back to my driveway. So far, it continues to do the same thing (i.e. not start) so I'll try shoebox's suggestion and try jumping directly on the starter and see what happens, and report back.

Again, many thanks.

Thirim

I had a similar experience with the winter beater (Honda CRV) .. I suspected everything and finally thought to run it over to the local alternator/starter/battery expert. He through his fancy machine on it and after 5 sec told me it was the starter. It was taking 180A to roll the motor over lol.
My symptoms were abnormally slow to roll over and worse/impossible when hot.

If it is strong rolling over (i think you said it wasn't but..) My ICM on my LT1 went bad to the point of fail but it would randomly not start or stall while driving. It always quickly restarted though. (Until fail)

AlaskaZ28

Just thought I'd give the update. Turns out it was the starter. Finally got the time to pull it, brought it down to Advance Auto and had it tested - completely shot, i.e. the gear arm wasn't extending.

Once again, thanks for all the help - I really appreciate the support this forum offers.