How do you get a SR cam to live for a long time with street driving,

-what kills SR
-What do you do (up keep)
-diff oil
-What lifters
-how long can you sit and idle your car ( yes i no this is a no no )
-is there a good list or rule of thumb on how to get these things to live as DD..

IF you could do it and had the money, would you put in a SR cam


Any other tips,tricks, or what you have done will be great

thx

 

Ok, there's alot of stuff here to cover and I'll give you my random thoughts on SR-street cams...

First off, what kills a SR cam?
It's a combination of a couple of things really. One being excessive spring pressures (that's a minor one) and the other being inadequate oil flow to the roller-wheel bearings (the major problem).

The way to keep a solid alive on the street is to address these issues.
One thing you shouldn't do is get too carried away with lift. If you use a high velocity cam profile, you are going to need a spring that can keep up, and that means alot more load on the lifter. Like I said, this is the "minor thing" but keeping the lift at or below .600 will help your SR'ed street motor live a bit longer.

The oil supply is the real biggie. You need a high-pressure oil pump. Either that or you should spring the stock pump for more pressure. You also need a lifter that incorporates good oiling. Right now there are two lifters I'd consider as top picks for SR'ed street motors. One being the Crower lifter with the HIPPO (Hi Pressure Pin Oiler) option and the other being the Isky Red Zone lifters which use their own version of "HIPPO" and lots of bearings (*****) around the lifter axle. The Crowers are proven performers and many guys, myself included, have logged alot of street miles on them without issue. The Isky's are newer, but people are getting good results with them as well. Then there's the Schubeck lifter that is solid, as in, NO moving parts. They are pricey but may be the ticket for an engine with tons of $$ tied up in it. When you consider the fact that a $300 item can ruin a 15,000+ motor... well, the extra cost starts to take a back seat to reliability.

And some random thoughts....

Don't use oil restrictors.

Synthetic oils will only help.

Address the issues and idling in traffic won't be a problem. I do it all the time... at rush hour none the less.

That's all I can think of at the moment. But then there's the maintenence side of the coin. A mild SR cam can be very almost "set-it-and-forget-it" but there are things you should keep an eye on. If you're not prepared to do so then I'd stay with a hydraulic.
One thing is to check your valvesprings at regular intervals or after alot of racing/high-revving. Especially if you're running a more extreme camshaft profile. Valvesprings pressures will tell you when there is a potential problem. I personally check mine every 6k miles.... the same time I check my lash. That's really it.

The newer "street" solid roller cam designs are usually tight lash and they are very streetable IMO. For an engine that is built to make power at or above 6500 rpm... the SR is the only way to go. HR's just cost you power at higher revs. Even if you decide to bottom your HR lifter out ( up .015) and run it like a solid, which can be done and some guys do. They're just not the ticket for a really hot na street motor.

-Mindgame

 

Thx for the info Mindgame,
????
-How many miles do you drive a year
-How long has your car idled, do you rev the car up when siting for long amounts periods of time.
-What parts do you have in your Valve train
-How offten the re ck lash
-Why do i need HV oil pump, or spring it? yes to get more oil up top but some other people have posted not to, it's like 50/50 ???

How is your car doing anywhy... any new ET, MPR...and if you could do it all ovewr again would you do the same set up??

One sweet ride you have made

 

Mindgame,,few more things,

What springs do you use
How often to you change them
How do you change them IE: on car off car
What tools are need to do the up keep of the SR cam from cheaking lash to changing springs,

thx

 

If you want some info on street driven solid rollers, shoot 95Bird a PM. Tim H is running an aggresive SR that is excellent on the street so he can steer you in the right direction. As for not going over .600 with a SR for longevity... I have to disagree based on personal experience. I've seen plenty of cars on the street with SR's in the .650" range and a few knocking on .700" that have run fine on motors that see plenty of street time. They were pretty hard to beat too, LOL. Like any cam it's all in setting it up properly.
Steve...

 

How many miles do you drive a year

My SS will probably see a little less than 5k this year. It's not my only mode of transportation, so it doesn't see the street everyday... although it could.

How long has your car idled, do you rev the car up when siting for long amounts periods of time.

I see bumper to bumper interstate traffic at least once a month it seems. Been going through the same grind for a few years now with other SR street cars and other than typical wear and Murphy's Law, nothing catostrophic to speak of. But I keep a very close eye on things to the point of being more than a little **** retentive.

What parts do you have in your Valve train

Shaft rockers, stainless valves, Isky springs and lifters, manton pushrods...

How offten the re ck lash

Every 6k. With a new engine, I will check things every 1k for the first 6k miles... just to see that everything is working ok. With a good setup, they will usually be spot-on or very close to it if nothing is going wrong.

Why do i need HV oil pump, or spring it? yes to get more oil up top but some other people have posted not to, it's like 50/50 ???

HV and HP are two different things. I recommend HP not HV. There are some engines that want the HV but SBC's IMO are not one of them.

How is your car doing anywhy... any new ET, MPR...and if you could do it all ovewr again would you do the same set up??

Car is running fine and the new beefed up M6 will go in before the weekend is over. Then we'll just have to wait for good weather before taking some more passes and ironing out the suspension. I have plenty of HP at this point, just need to get it all to the ground but my suspension needs a few more $ thrown at it before that's going to happen. Other than that... I didn't build this car to be the "fastest", just to be the "funnest". If it never turns a better ET that would be ok with me but I would like a bit more "plant" when goosing it on the street.

Would I do it again?

Why not?

Given the fact that I already had the big $ items when I started putting this thing together.... it just made sense at that time. I didn't want to have to mess with trying to swap a gen 1 engine into my f-bod. If I were starting the project now, I might opt for a gen 1 transplant using the BMR gen1/BBC k-member. I have a Dart tall deck aluminum small block that would make a very nice 427-plus ci powerplant. And I just might still do that in the future but right now I'm having fun with this package.

A word about the lift. A friend and I put together a 357 ci engine for his 92 Camaro last year. The camshaft is a solid roller with a max lift of right around .580" (memory fails me as to exact #s). The car sees about 10k miles a year and put down 458rwhp ~430 lbs-ft of torque through an auto and ford 9" rear. Car turns consistent mid 10's at the track. The 68' Camaro I sold when I purchased the SS is another example of a car putting 450-plus rwhp to the ground with an under .600" lift cam.

Joe Sherman built a sbc (365 ci) last year that won the Popular Hotrodding Engine Masters Challenge. That engine made 600+ hp and ~530 lbs-ft of torque. The camshaft for that one never lifted the valve more than .570" off the seat.
My engine puts close to 570rwhp to the ground and my cam doesn't lift the valves much above .6".

So what is the point in these examples?
Well, camshaft lift is just one of those things I think people get too hung up on. For a race car with big heads that flow in the high lift range, it's worth some power but for every engine you can find that makes record-like numbers with a big lift cam, I can tell you of one that performed similarly with less lift and probably better attention paid to the stuff that really counts.

Then you have people here running too large a camshaft and making it idle with a wide lsa..... when what they should concentrate on is the overlap area. Which would likely call for a smaller cam then they think is optimal with a narrower lsa. Like I said, lift is the "minor thing".

JMO and over 30 years of experience playing with engines.

-Mindgame

 

Excellent points and I see where you are coming from Mindgame. Daily driver... SR is not the way to go unless you love running through the valves a few time a year, LOL. Weekend only car... in my book go for it.
On the lift I've subscribed to the practice of being conservative on the lift and had good results. With the way spring technology has taken off in the past decade I'm seing so many higer lift combos working out so well, even with frequent street time. We've been playing around with some higer lift stuff lately and things are looking good, but yes initial cost is a factor in this range.
You're correct on folks getting hung up on camshafts... looks like every part tends to fixate different people be it lift #'s or damn head flow #'s.
I've seen the extreme side of it too... people running Stock Eliminator inspired cams on the street... run like a bat out of hell for a few weeks then get parked with a destroyed valve train.
Looks like a lot of it comes down to personal preference and how much $$$ do you want to spend.
Steve...

 

You're right Steve, the springs HAVE come taken a quantum leap in the past 5-10 years. I remember running solids (flat tappet) in the late 70's early 80's that were milder than the stuff from the past 10 years... and those cams went through springs like crazy!

The same cam today with the new springs would likely live 20k miles without a change.

Probably comes down to advances in metallurgy and manufacturing practices. Coatings..... metal surface treatments.... all these things were unheard of not too long ago. But just look at the springs from PSI, Isky, LSM, Comp, Manley..... they just keep getting better.

Oh yes, there are guys really pushing things to new levels and our way of thinking about things may change as we see more and more extremity. I'm not ruling anything out. I just prefer to let them be the guinea pigs.

Later.

-Mindgame

 

I think keeping lift to not more than ~0.600" on a street car is a good rule of thumb. It's not a magic number, just a benchmark to consider. As stated, few street SBC heads flow much past 0.600"
anyway, so why "waste" the lift?

Rich

 

Were is the best place to buy the Crower Lifters?
How about the Schubeck's

I have a solid roller cam on the way right now. I don't drive the car every day but the llift is over .600

I had planned on using a stud girdle from Mad man and I have 7/16"/ 7/16" arp screw in studs with comp pro magnum roller rockers.

Is there any advantage to the shaft mount rockers?

Mindgame,
You mentioned checking things out every 1,000 miles at first.
Do you mean just valve lash?

What did you guys do about valve cover clearance and your alternator?

Thanks
Tom

 

I ru na 260/260 112LSA .618 lift ( 1.52RRs) solid roller every day.

Only thing I have to do is check the lash every other oil change. A few minor oiling precautions as said above. and I idle at 1000 rpms. I love my solid roller

 

Tom,

Check with Herbert Performance for Crower lifters. Jegs and Summit may also carry them but I know Herbert does for sure.

For Schubeck, you'll have to go to Schubeck. No one distributes them as far as I am aware. Schubeck has the "radius" composite lifter I mentioned (no moving parts) as well as the new "Rollex X" which works on a hydrostatic principle. Very innovative guy that Joe Schubeck!

Here's a link to the Roller X,
http://www.schubeckracing.com/rollerx.html

And a very informative .pdf on the composite "Radius" lifter
http://www.schubeckracing.com/docume...eprint_002.pdf

Notice that none of these lifters use a link bar. You'll have to drill and tap for the lifter guide plate with Schubeck's fixtures. You'll also need the lifter bores opened up to use them.

Not to mention, you'd be a pioneer if you went this route. I don't know of anyone (anyone who will talk anyways) using them yet. You also have to use Schubeck's cam cores with the Radius lifter because of the huge 1" radius they use. Changes cam timing if used on a standard cam.. so Joe grinds the cam to compensate. Don't know if that's the case with the Roller X though.....

As for valvecovers, I'm using MPD's with spring oilers. Don't know what they have in the way of centerbolt v-covers. May want to check with B&B Performance (Flatlander Racing sells them). They make some tall covers with the alternator bump.

Yes, a shaft setup is a good deal more stable but I wouldn't worry about the expense unless you just have to have them (like my cylinder head requires). If you were running really stout springs, there'd be even more advantage to having them.

And yes, I meant checking the lash every 1k for the first 6k. It's a good practice with a new top end. Not only will it tell you that everything is going ok, it'll let you know if something major is going on like a valve seat moving around.

-Mindgame

 

Is there a good link where i can read up on the crower/isky lifters, and yes the red zone lifters are not $$$ $700+ ouch....

What about the comp X lifters..

How agressive were the ramps on the cams in the 450rw cars...

DO you change your springs on the car, if so what tool are you useing to re & re...

 

http://www.crower.com/misc/m_cat.shtml

Look at page 111, for the Crower Cutaway Severe Duty. I've been running those for about 4 years, with a very mild CC 230/242 114LSA 0.590/0.590, CC 1.60I/1.55E Pro-Magnums, PSI springs and the Cutaways. Car was a daily driver for the first year, and I noticed nothing unusual in the way of wear, even though it seemed to spend a lot of time in stop-n-go traffic. I find that now that it is seldom driven on the street, valve adjustments are a once a year thing.

 

What do you guys think of using a stud girdle like the one from Mad man?

sounds like the crowers are the way to go for lifters.

Thanks
Tom