sold my iroc now i have 96 t/a ws6 woes! HELP
10-14-2012, 09:24 PM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Washington NC
Posts: 100
sold my iroc now i have 96 t/a ws6 woes! HELP
I have been on this site for a while with my old 87 iroc z, i recently sold and and now i have a 1996 trans am ws6. And guess what.... its having issues lol
Whats happening is when its cold it dose not like to start.. takes two or 3 times before it will start, once warm it will fire right up.
When i start to drive it she has 0 power and i mean 0. I can take off in 1st and punch it and she'll start to move but not pavement rashing power. wont even spin a wheel in first... its like that hot or cold.
I pulled the 10 codes that were saved on the computer and most common ones were EGR valve, Evap purge, MAF poor performance, and multiple missfire and both heated oxygen sensors......
Seeing the MAF one made me want to try and new maf, so i did and it didnt fix the issue.
Any input??? The engine sounds great no noise its a newer motor from what im told, i did a little poking around the vac lines and checking things, deff in need of some new vac lines which im going to do but to be sure its not causing the issues im having. maybe someone here can help me.
Thanks alot for reading my novel just trying to be a detailed as i can.
Whats happening is when its cold it dose not like to start.. takes two or 3 times before it will start, once warm it will fire right up.
When i start to drive it she has 0 power and i mean 0. I can take off in 1st and punch it and she'll start to move but not pavement rashing power. wont even spin a wheel in first... its like that hot or cold.
I pulled the 10 codes that were saved on the computer and most common ones were EGR valve, Evap purge, MAF poor performance, and multiple missfire and both heated oxygen sensors......
Seeing the MAF one made me want to try and new maf, so i did and it didnt fix the issue.
Any input??? The engine sounds great no noise its a newer motor from what im told, i did a little poking around the vac lines and checking things, deff in need of some new vac lines which im going to do but to be sure its not causing the issues im having. maybe someone here can help me.
Thanks alot for reading my novel just trying to be a detailed as i can.
10-14-2012, 11:00 PM
#2
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Post Falls, Idaho
Posts: 2,728
Re: sold my iroc now i have 96 t/a ws6 woes! HELP
List all your codes and numbers. Have you checked fuel pressure? Possibly your temp sensor in the water pump is bad. Inexpensive and easy to replace. Might be worth a shot if fuel pressure is fine. The 02 sensors might also need replacing. Anything removed or modded your aware of?
Last edited by mrmint69; 10-14-2012 at 11:05 PM. Reason: added
10-15-2012, 07:50 AM
#3
Guest
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 0
Re: sold my iroc now i have 96 t/a ws6 woes! HELP
STOP do not do anything else until you check the oil at the dipstick and see if it smells of gasoline. Your crankcase could be diluted accounting for your long cranking and poor running. See below:
Multiple codes can be due to low voltage or poor diodes in the alternator allowing AC on the line taking power out. Either it creates a 'brown" out of sorts or it sends the PCM off into never never land.
Clear all codes and start the engine. Have someone crank it while you check the voltage across the battery. While cranking, you don't want it to drop lower than about 11 volts.
Once it is running, it should show about 14 volts across the battery. These readings were done on the DC setting of your meter. Now switch to AC and read the voltage from the output terminal of the alternator to the negative terminal of the battery. Be sure it's lower than .03 VAC. If higher, the diodes could be bad. Have it checked if that is the case.
Now regarding long cranking. It can often be from the fuel running back away from the engine after the vehicle sits for a long period of time. More often it is do to a bad check valve in the fuel pump sending unit. This keeps fuel up to the engine when it's shut off so you start fast the next morning. To test this is the case, simply turn the key on but don't crank the engine KOEO for about 3 or 4 seconds. Then key off. Then repeat this cycle about 5 or 6 times. After that, try cranking it up. If it starts fast then, you may have found the problem.
I say MAY cause there are 2 other things that can create a long crank situation also. If the FPR has a hole in the diaphragm, it can do the long crank also but it will also cause the engine to run poorly. Do to dumping fuel into the intake via the vacuum line. You can test this by using the vac line to draw a vacuum on the FPR. If it does not hold a vacuum, the diaphragm is ruptured.
The other cause of long cranking/poor running is a leaking injector. You hope this is not the case cause it can soup a cylinder and tear it and the piston up. In the case of the FPR and the injector, it's possible to flood the engine.
Since you have long cranking AND run poorly, I'm going to say you have a ruptured FPR. Cause the alternative is not so good. Check the vac line AFTER you check the oil for fuel.
Multiple codes can be due to low voltage or poor diodes in the alternator allowing AC on the line taking power out. Either it creates a 'brown" out of sorts or it sends the PCM off into never never land.
Clear all codes and start the engine. Have someone crank it while you check the voltage across the battery. While cranking, you don't want it to drop lower than about 11 volts.
Once it is running, it should show about 14 volts across the battery. These readings were done on the DC setting of your meter. Now switch to AC and read the voltage from the output terminal of the alternator to the negative terminal of the battery. Be sure it's lower than .03 VAC. If higher, the diodes could be bad. Have it checked if that is the case.
Now regarding long cranking. It can often be from the fuel running back away from the engine after the vehicle sits for a long period of time. More often it is do to a bad check valve in the fuel pump sending unit. This keeps fuel up to the engine when it's shut off so you start fast the next morning. To test this is the case, simply turn the key on but don't crank the engine KOEO for about 3 or 4 seconds. Then key off. Then repeat this cycle about 5 or 6 times. After that, try cranking it up. If it starts fast then, you may have found the problem.
I say MAY cause there are 2 other things that can create a long crank situation also. If the FPR has a hole in the diaphragm, it can do the long crank also but it will also cause the engine to run poorly. Do to dumping fuel into the intake via the vacuum line. You can test this by using the vac line to draw a vacuum on the FPR. If it does not hold a vacuum, the diaphragm is ruptured.
The other cause of long cranking/poor running is a leaking injector. You hope this is not the case cause it can soup a cylinder and tear it and the piston up. In the case of the FPR and the injector, it's possible to flood the engine.
Since you have long cranking AND run poorly, I'm going to say you have a ruptured FPR. Cause the alternative is not so good. Check the vac line AFTER you check the oil for fuel.
Last edited by Guest47904; 10-15-2012 at 07:52 AM.
10-15-2012, 07:26 PM
#4
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Washington NC
Posts: 100
Re: sold my iroc now i have 96 t/a ws6 woes! HELP
wow thank you both for fast responses. i have found the opti literally had a crack/hole in the cap where the harness plugs in. i really hope this is the issue.
Its in the shop as we speak getting a new cap and rotor, crank sensor plugs/wires. hope that fixes my issues but i will most deff look into the feedback yall have given to me.
Thanks again for fast responses and i will get back on here as soon as i get the car back (tomm were hoping)
Its in the shop as we speak getting a new cap and rotor, crank sensor plugs/wires. hope that fixes my issues but i will most deff look into the feedback yall have given to me.
Thanks again for fast responses and i will get back on here as soon as i get the car back (tomm were hoping)
10-15-2012, 08:04 PM
#5
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Washington NC
Posts: 100
Re: sold my iroc now i have 96 t/a ws6 woes! HELP
also one of the vac lines that was soposed to be hooked up (the one with the check valve) was not hooked up... would that have anything to do with my power loss or is it just to prevent oil build up?
10-18-2012, 07:00 PM
#6
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Washington NC
Posts: 100
Re: sold my iroc now i have 96 t/a ws6 woes! HELP
UPDATE
i got the car back from the shop with new cap/rotor and crank position sensor.....
Still no power better than before but not all there...
Fuel pressure regulator????
Codes are oxygen sensors bank 1+2 (heated)?
Alot of fuel EVAP codes
I think the check valve is bad in fuel pump when its cold it take a moment to level it self out and be responsive almost like a bog???
The oil dose not smell of gas as stated above, i did find that it seems as if the pcv valve was broken because when i unpluged it she was a whole lot more responsive at idle but still wouldnt burn tires in 1st...
Im lost here and i dont belive its timing related seeing that the car runs good revs fine at idle but just no power at an idle... Ill be replacing vac lines tomm.. and checking fuel pressure... Anymore input would be great and sorry for the book im writing here just trying to put everything i know out there for everyone. Thanks a ton- Chris
i got the car back from the shop with new cap/rotor and crank position sensor.....
Still no power better than before but not all there...
Fuel pressure regulator????
Codes are oxygen sensors bank 1+2 (heated)?
Alot of fuel EVAP codes
I think the check valve is bad in fuel pump when its cold it take a moment to level it self out and be responsive almost like a bog???
The oil dose not smell of gas as stated above, i did find that it seems as if the pcv valve was broken because when i unpluged it she was a whole lot more responsive at idle but still wouldnt burn tires in 1st...
Im lost here and i dont belive its timing related seeing that the car runs good revs fine at idle but just no power at an idle... Ill be replacing vac lines tomm.. and checking fuel pressure... Anymore input would be great and sorry for the book im writing here just trying to put everything i know out there for everyone. Thanks a ton- Chris
10-18-2012, 07:55 PM
#7
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: north Carolina
Posts: 563
Re: sold my iroc now i have 96 t/a ws6 woes! HELP
What is the fuel pressure ? have you tried to reset the codes?
it looks like the codes are saying fuel related ?? not sure going to leave that to the pros
good luck . when you get a chance look for my post on trail ridding the smoky mountains
it looks like the codes are saying fuel related ?? not sure going to leave that to the pros
good luck . when you get a chance look for my post on trail ridding the smoky mountains
Last edited by parkers Z28; 10-18-2012 at 08:01 PM.
10-18-2012, 08:09 PM
#8
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Washington NC
Posts: 100
Re: sold my iroc now i have 96 t/a ws6 woes! HELP
okay huge update please responces needed!
I was just in contact with the prev owner of the car and he says the short block with cam was from a caprice police interceptor with the heads and intake from the ws6 (the car i have).
He said the engine he put in had an internal cam position sensor and in order to do the swap he had to remove the cam gear from the orginal ws6 motor and put it on the caprice motor to make the engine work with the computer... he says cam timing or timing marks may not be in line as they should........
My question, the car runs fine just has no power.... have i just found my issue??? how on earth am i going to get cam timing right without proper marks to do so??? Im a very unhappy 4th owner now. Any help or input would be amazing right about now!
I was just in contact with the prev owner of the car and he says the short block with cam was from a caprice police interceptor with the heads and intake from the ws6 (the car i have).
He said the engine he put in had an internal cam position sensor and in order to do the swap he had to remove the cam gear from the orginal ws6 motor and put it on the caprice motor to make the engine work with the computer... he says cam timing or timing marks may not be in line as they should........
My question, the car runs fine just has no power.... have i just found my issue??? how on earth am i going to get cam timing right without proper marks to do so??? Im a very unhappy 4th owner now. Any help or input would be amazing right about now!
10-19-2012, 07:35 AM
#10
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Kissimmee, Fl, USA
Posts: 1,942
Re: sold my iroc now i have 96 t/a ws6 woes! HELP
okay huge update please responces needed!
I was just in contact with the prev owner of the car and he says the short block with cam was from a caprice police interceptor with the heads and intake from the ws6 (the car i have).
He said the engine he put in had an internal cam position sensor and in order to do the swap he had to remove the cam gear from the orginal ws6 motor and put it on the caprice motor to make the engine work with the computer... he says cam timing or timing marks may not be in line as they should........
My question, the car runs fine just has no power.... have i just found my issue??? how on earth am i going to get cam timing right without proper marks to do so??? Im a very unhappy 4th owner now. Any help or input would be amazing right about now!
I was just in contact with the prev owner of the car and he says the short block with cam was from a caprice police interceptor with the heads and intake from the ws6 (the car i have).
He said the engine he put in had an internal cam position sensor and in order to do the swap he had to remove the cam gear from the orginal ws6 motor and put it on the caprice motor to make the engine work with the computer... he says cam timing or timing marks may not be in line as they should........
My question, the car runs fine just has no power.... have i just found my issue??? how on earth am i going to get cam timing right without proper marks to do so??? Im a very unhappy 4th owner now. Any help or input would be amazing right about now!
Check the compression. If the cam timing is off, it should show up as a low compression reading in all cylinders.
The timing marks you need are on the timing gears themselves. You'll need to lower the front of the oilpan and pull the timing cover to access them. It's actually quite easy to align the marks but because it's not all that easy to see it's common to misalign them. Then, on reassembly, you have to be careful installing the opti to make sure it's aligned properly.
The sad thing is that the original owner was mistaken...the block could have been used with the crank position sensor left in place but not connected....
Good luck,
10-19-2012, 07:53 AM
#11
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 875
Re: sold my iroc now i have 96 t/a ws6 woes! HELP
Does the car shut off when hot and restart when it cools down? When I bought my 95 TA someone used a cam from an earlier lt1 with the short dowel pin. It ran like crap and I couldnt even back over a small bump, there was no power. It would die when hot sometimes and would backfire really loud. What yr caprice motor? 93 and 94 were short dowel pins
10-19-2012, 07:59 AM
#12
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Kissimmee, Fl, USA
Posts: 1,942
Re: sold my iroc now i have 96 t/a ws6 woes! HELP
Does the car shut off when hot and restart when it cools down? When I bought my 95 TA someone used a cam from an earlier lt1 with the short dowel pin. It ran like crap and I couldnt even back over a small bump, there was no power. It would die when hot sometimes and would backfire really loud. What yr caprice motor? 93 and 94 were short dowel pins
While the cam dowel pin could be wrong, earlier cams had a smaller diameter pilot hole on the face. The later OPTI's don't fit into the hole.
I also believe the B-Body cars got the vented, pin drive OPTI before the F-body cars and this was one with a crank sensor. It seems pretty likely this is a pin-drive opti car....
10-19-2012, 12:45 PM
#15
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Kissimmee, Fl, USA
Posts: 1,942