Ram Air, worth the money??
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 189
From: Antioch, CA
Originally posted by RamAir95TA
You're all missing the point.
You can try and "ram" as much air into the intake tract all you want, whether it be 35mph or 135mph, it won't make a difference. The engine will only breathe as much air as it needs. Unless there is a physical barrier (turbocharger, supercharger) between the source of the air and the combustion chambers, you will NOT see a gain from ram air. Like I said before, it's a cold air induction that looks cool.
Also, unless anyone has any windtunnel data that they would like to share, how do we even know that the placement of the WS6 nozzles are of a high-pressure zone? Same with the SS hood scoop, although that has been proven. The SS hood scoop is probably in the least ideal position for any "ramming" to occur. Center of the hood, low rise, low pressure, BAD BAD BAD. The OPTIMAL spot for intake vents is at the base of the windshield near the firewall. That is a high-pressure zone as air passes over the hood and hits the windshield, swirling clockwise (looking from the left). Ever drive in a car with windshield washer nozzles on the hood? Ever see them spray and have the water swirl backwards toward the hood?
This is why cowl induction hoods work so well.
Also, have you ever seen those pro-stock drag cars? Notice that the hood scoop is usually about 10" or 12" high? It's that high for a reason; away from any turbulence that the preceding body panels would have on any air that is received by the hood.
Ram air is a myth.
You're all missing the point.
You can try and "ram" as much air into the intake tract all you want, whether it be 35mph or 135mph, it won't make a difference. The engine will only breathe as much air as it needs. Unless there is a physical barrier (turbocharger, supercharger) between the source of the air and the combustion chambers, you will NOT see a gain from ram air. Like I said before, it's a cold air induction that looks cool.
Also, unless anyone has any windtunnel data that they would like to share, how do we even know that the placement of the WS6 nozzles are of a high-pressure zone? Same with the SS hood scoop, although that has been proven. The SS hood scoop is probably in the least ideal position for any "ramming" to occur. Center of the hood, low rise, low pressure, BAD BAD BAD. The OPTIMAL spot for intake vents is at the base of the windshield near the firewall. That is a high-pressure zone as air passes over the hood and hits the windshield, swirling clockwise (looking from the left). Ever drive in a car with windshield washer nozzles on the hood? Ever see them spray and have the water swirl backwards toward the hood?
This is why cowl induction hoods work so well.
Also, have you ever seen those pro-stock drag cars? Notice that the hood scoop is usually about 10" or 12" high? It's that high for a reason; away from any turbulence that the preceding body panels would have on any air that is received by the hood.
Ram air is a myth.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 589
From: Sacramento CA
Originally posted by stangitr
True
True
v Not a mythRam air does work. I wonder why most Ram Air F-bodies dyno higher then most reg car F-bodies? Must be the tires
Is it worth switching over from a cai, I wouldn't, to expensive for that little added hp.
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 189
From: Antioch, CA
Originally posted by Johnnynsac
False v Not a myth
Ram air does work. I wonder why most Ram Air F-bodies dyno higher then most reg car F-bodies? Must be the tires Is it worth switching over from a cai, I wouldn't, to expensive for that little added hp.
False
v Not a mythRam air does work. I wonder why most Ram Air F-bodies dyno higher then most reg car F-bodies? Must be the tires
Is it worth switching over from a cai, I wouldn't, to expensive for that little added hp.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,667
From: SLC, UT
Ok... read my previous post.... 36" of pipe Vs 12" of pipe... tell me which is better???
We can all argue if RA is real or a legend till we don't have any fingers left...
My Point is, and the truth is that the WS6 RA setup is the BEST CAI setup you can get... it has the LEAST restrictive intake track, and the least piping losses of any stock or aftermarket CAI. That is why it shows more HP, because there is less restriction on the engine breathing.
We can all argue if RA is real or a legend till we don't have any fingers left...
My Point is, and the truth is that the WS6 RA setup is the BEST CAI setup you can get... it has the LEAST restrictive intake track, and the least piping losses of any stock or aftermarket CAI. That is why it shows more HP, because there is less restriction on the engine breathing.
Last edited by 97FormulaWS-6; Feb 5, 2004 at 09:03 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 589
From: Sacramento CA
Originally posted by stangitr
He said that it works as CAI. So it is better than regular intake but not any better than CAI.
He said that it works as CAI. So it is better than regular intake but not any better than CAI.
I guess when you have your mind set on something, you won't change it no matter what the other half thinks.
Last edited by Johnnynsac; Feb 5, 2004 at 09:00 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,217
From: Greenville, SC
Yall are both right. RA doesnt really "ram air" in the motor. It is just a very efficient intake tract as opposed to the standard CAI. Yes the area of high pressure is at the windshield, thats why Cowl hoods are great as you said and is also why NASCAR chooses to intake their air from there. It has little adverse effects on the aerodynamics of the car and is the optimal placement, if you will, on a CARBED setup. However, the design of a system to use a cowl hood on a F-body would be terrible because of the 90degree bend it would requier. The camaro RA is not as efficient as the pontiac RA for this same reason, the bends required, as well as the fact that the intake is located at the center of the hood and is not raised off of it. The NHRA cars use the huge high-rise snorkels for more than just optimal air intake. It meets the windshield very near the roof, and that along with the high rear keeps the air attached to the car further, increasing downforce.
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 441
From: Oklahoma
I have had both ram air and a cai on my car. I currently have the ram air on my car. I can feel a definite seat of the pants difference especially in the higher the rpms. If ram air is so inefficient then why did gm put that on the cars instead of normal cai's which would have been way cheaper? Because u know gm would cut costs wherever they could. I dont want to get into an engineering debate, cuz frankly i deal with that stuff everyday and dont want to be thinking about that on my lazy time. i'm sure there is not a huge gain from ram air, but i could definitely tell a difference, just like when you tune the pcm your gonna tell a difference. Thats my opinion though. -Michael
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 309
From: Dunn, NC, USA
Originally posted by fozziez28
I have had both ram air and a cai on my car. I currently have the ram air on my car. I can feel a definite seat of the pants difference especially in the higher the rpms. If ram air is so inefficient then why did gm put that on the cars instead of normal cai's which would have been way cheaper? Because u know gm would cut costs wherever they could. I dont want to get into an engineering debate, cuz frankly i deal with that stuff everyday and dont want to be thinking about that on my lazy time. i'm sure there is not a huge gain from ram air, but i could definitely tell a difference, just like when you tune the pcm your gonna tell a difference. Thats my opinion though. -Michael
I have had both ram air and a cai on my car. I currently have the ram air on my car. I can feel a definite seat of the pants difference especially in the higher the rpms. If ram air is so inefficient then why did gm put that on the cars instead of normal cai's which would have been way cheaper? Because u know gm would cut costs wherever they could. I dont want to get into an engineering debate, cuz frankly i deal with that stuff everyday and dont want to be thinking about that on my lazy time. i'm sure there is not a huge gain from ram air, but i could definitely tell a difference, just like when you tune the pcm your gonna tell a difference. Thats my opinion though. -Michael
Also, I would like pics of the homemade CAI set up please. If you would like, I can also host them for you.
fisheyephotography@charter.net
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 263
I have had CAI and I've had Ram Air... Ram Air is more of an appearance mod IMO, but at the same time, I also noticed an increase in SOTP HP when switching to RA. I guess it's all about what kind of money you have to throw at the car.
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 986
From: texas
why would a Ram air dyno higher than a CAI? I cant see why it would. no air is getting rammed into the car while sitting still on the dyno. unless you dyno your car in a wind tunnel. now I am tryin to visualize how a T/A ram air works at high speed, what happens when you reach to where you're getting as much air that can be pushed into the engine. what happens to the air behind it, does it get slowed down and caught up in the front as turbulance?? I dunno. Im visualizing like dragging a cup with a big hole in the bottom thru water and slowly getting faster. the mouth of the cup being the Ram air, and the hole being the max air the engine will take in. after a while you'll reach a point where you cant squeeze more water thru the hole and you'll just be causing drag by all the water thats gets stuck at the opening of the cup. I dunno, Im just trying to visualize it.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 479
From: Indianapolis, IN
The way I'm thinking of it right now, Terran2k, it in some ways resembles a supercharger. The more air you get into the engine, the more power. Therefore, when you have air 'ramming' into the intake at say 60 mph, more of that will be pushed into the intake. Of course the effect will not be as dramatic as that from a supercharger, but I can see that there is a gain to that setup. Also, (I don't have Ram Air so this might not be true) I think the Ram Air intake is opened wider at the beginning, with a larger filter and such. Let me know what you think.
Steve
Steve
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 260
From: Turnersville/Washington Twp. NJ
Originally posted by ZZtop
This would be true if you are using a stock steel hood. The only way to make raim air as efficient and beneficial as possible is to go with a fiberglass hood. It does not get hot from the sun and does not soak up engine temp. Covering the underside of the hood with reflective insulation would help as well, but Im not sure how much. The Ram Air on the Camaros is probably equal to if not worse than a CAI because of the bends in that RA system. However, the RA on a TA or Formula is a very straight shot, no bends in the piping and very short distance to travel. A RA setup on a Pontiac, especially with a fiberglass hood should beat a CAI anyday. OF COURSE this is speculation and I have not seen any testing to back this up. It is absolutely true that past a certain speed (would assume as little as 10-20mph, again no tests) the RA will flow more than a CAI. All of this is directed towards a Pontiac because the Camaro RA sucks, such a stupid design,
This would be true if you are using a stock steel hood. The only way to make raim air as efficient and beneficial as possible is to go with a fiberglass hood. It does not get hot from the sun and does not soak up engine temp. Covering the underside of the hood with reflective insulation would help as well, but Im not sure how much. The Ram Air on the Camaros is probably equal to if not worse than a CAI because of the bends in that RA system. However, the RA on a TA or Formula is a very straight shot, no bends in the piping and very short distance to travel. A RA setup on a Pontiac, especially with a fiberglass hood should beat a CAI anyday. OF COURSE this is speculation and I have not seen any testing to back this up. It is absolutely true that past a certain speed (would assume as little as 10-20mph, again no tests) the RA will flow more than a CAI. All of this is directed towards a Pontiac because the Camaro RA sucks, such a stupid design,
