porting heads question
Registered User
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 1,490
From: Tampa Florida
Every time I couldnt get a descriptive answer about my heads llyod or phil would help me understand..
I bought some heads a couple days ago from Lloyd. He's written me pages of advice to help me choose what kind of heads I want.. and has emailed me back everytime.. this is over the course of 7 months. Sorry but I dont know any scammers who will sit down and write me detailed pages on things I should look for and want in a set of heads for my current and possible future applications.
Heres my head flow numbers as stated by Lloyd
.200 134/103
.250 164/123
.300 188/134
.350 215/149
.400 231/161
.450 247/169
.500 254/178
.550 258/182
.600 261/185
Those are simply awesome midlift numbers. If he wanted to scam people he'd inflate the .500-.600 lift numbers because thats what sells..
Of course I'll check them over with one of the head porters who is installing them, as I do with any product.
But this hear say crap is messed up. If u dont have a set of his heads then you really have nothing to say. I can understand that you want to inform others of a possible bad product but over the years that Lloyd has been on this board you are the only person I've ever seen to say that they didnt like his heads..
In less than 3 weeks I'll have these heads installed. I'll post the results
I bought some heads a couple days ago from Lloyd. He's written me pages of advice to help me choose what kind of heads I want.. and has emailed me back everytime.. this is over the course of 7 months. Sorry but I dont know any scammers who will sit down and write me detailed pages on things I should look for and want in a set of heads for my current and possible future applications.
Heres my head flow numbers as stated by Lloyd
.200 134/103
.250 164/123
.300 188/134
.350 215/149
.400 231/161
.450 247/169
.500 254/178
.550 258/182
.600 261/185
Those are simply awesome midlift numbers. If he wanted to scam people he'd inflate the .500-.600 lift numbers because thats what sells..
Of course I'll check them over with one of the head porters who is installing them, as I do with any product.
But this hear say crap is messed up. If u dont have a set of his heads then you really have nothing to say. I can understand that you want to inform others of a possible bad product but over the years that Lloyd has been on this board you are the only person I've ever seen to say that they didnt like his heads..
In less than 3 weeks I'll have these heads installed. I'll post the results
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,450
From: Belleville, IL
Truth be told, everyone's numbers are gonna be different. When I flowed both sets of my AFRs, I came up with different numbers than what AFR advertised. I'm sure the same would happen if you flowed Lloyd's heads, or TEA or GTP or Patriot or anyone else. This is why I always do a before and after on a local bench, that way I can be absolutely sure the numbers are correct.
What I'd be more concerned with is performance. If my heads flowed 240/150 and I ran 11s, who cares!?! I've never paid much attention to what Lloyd's(or any other porter's) customers cars run because I'm not in the market to get head work done. But if his customers are running better numbers than everyone else, the guy must be doing something right.
If you're putting down someone's work, make sure you can prove it too. If you think he does bad work, perhaps you could do better?
What I'd be more concerned with is performance. If my heads flowed 240/150 and I ran 11s, who cares!?! I've never paid much attention to what Lloyd's(or any other porter's) customers cars run because I'm not in the market to get head work done. But if his customers are running better numbers than everyone else, the guy must be doing something right.
If you're putting down someone's work, make sure you can prove it too. If you think he does bad work, perhaps you could do better?
Advanced Tech Moderator
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,262
From: Nashville
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 870
From: Cuyahoga Falls, OHIO
Just curious, but why is it the people on here who know most about what heads to buy or not buy are the guys with just a few bolt-ons
They wouldn't be able to tell the difference between an LT1 and a Honda cylinder head. Personally, I'd wait until I get a bad set of heads from Lloyd before I start criticizing his work.
I had my heads done by Phil. He does good work. But even then, I've seen people on here bash him too
They wouldn't be able to tell the difference between an LT1 and a Honda cylinder head. Personally, I'd wait until I get a bad set of heads from Lloyd before I start criticizing his work.I had my heads done by Phil. He does good work. But even then, I've seen people on here bash him too
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 5,645
From: Bridgewater, MA
Originally posted by Naegash
I have posted numerous times before I have heard from several sources that Lloyd blatently lies about his flow numbers. He caters to people who want the internet race the CFM of their heads for the cheapest price possible. Think about it, seldom will you find the best product at the cheapest price, it just doesn't usually work that way. I have seen pics of his work and to me it looks downright amatuer.
I have posted numerous times before I have heard from several sources that Lloyd blatently lies about his flow numbers. He caters to people who want the internet race the CFM of their heads for the cheapest price possible. Think about it, seldom will you find the best product at the cheapest price, it just doesn't usually work that way. I have seen pics of his work and to me it looks downright amatuer.
Like I have said to you before, compare both heads with the same combos. UNtil you have seen a set in person, shut your hole. I'll put my numbers up against anyone on here. Phil, port a set of heads that flow 270 @ .550 with an XE230/236 114LSA with Lt's and normal bolt-ons and we'll see who puts out the best numbers. I am not just saying Phil's heads, anyonebody that ports stock LT1 heads(TEA, CMS, etc.). I bet you Lloyd is as good or better than most porters out there. I will be getting a new tune this week from Madwolf and we'll see if I can creep up on 400rwhp with my cam. I dont think it has been done yet (being on a 114LSA), but I will try. I am only 17rwhp away.
Conclusion: I am not bashing Phil or anyone else, but for under 700 bucks for porting (includes shipping) I am damn close to 400rwhp with a crappy off the shelf cam. People that dont have real world experience should keep their mouth shut unless they got proof.
Registered User
Joined: May 1999
Posts: 2,201
From: HI.
I got something to say.....If Lloyd was in it just for the money, why would he be on this friggen board all the time helping people out. I spent 49 hours porting and polishing my own heads. Lloyd spent a lot of time posting to my replies and giving me tips on how to do them. He even asked me to send him pics on them to check them out. Not ONCE did he criticize me or say i should send them out. He gave me nothing but positive feedback and advice. Like it was said before hearsay is just that. 
I'm still waiting for someone to post here that they actually had their heads done by Lloyd and hated them. Until them I don't believe SHI*!
Lloyd if you're on the board like you always are, please don't lets this dudes post stop you from helping us out. Some people appreciate your hellp....no no F-that. A lot of people do.
Thanks
I'm still waiting for someone to post here that they actually had their heads done by Lloyd and hated them. Until them I don't believe SHI*!
Lloyd if you're on the board like you always are, please don't lets this dudes post stop you from helping us out. Some people appreciate your hellp....no no F-that. A lot of people do.
Thanks
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,626
From: Baylor University - TX
fyi mr grease...I purchased a set of ported heads off of Lloyd but ended up selling them in order to fund an engagement ring...we all have to grow up some time...right?
I know plenty about what I'm talking about...if I didn't I'd be posting "hear-say" opinions...lol
I know plenty about what I'm talking about...if I didn't I'd be posting "hear-say" opinions...lol
Last edited by FacelessZ; Oct 23, 2003 at 12:16 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 870
From: Cuyahoga Falls, OHIO
Originally posted by FacelessZ
fyi mr grease...I purchased a set of ported heads off of Lloyd but ended up selling them in order to fund an engagement ring...we all have to grow up some time...right?
I know plenty about what I'm talking about...if I didn't I'd be posting "hear-say" opinions...lol
fyi mr grease...I purchased a set of ported heads off of Lloyd but ended up selling them in order to fund an engagement ring...we all have to grow up some time...right?
I know plenty about what I'm talking about...if I didn't I'd be posting "hear-say" opinions...lol
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 5,645
From: Bridgewater, MA
This is from lloyd himself addressed to Naegash or anyone else questioning his work. I am posting for him because his server is giving him problems and he cant get on the site.
"I do not claim to be the best.
I just claim to be good for the $$$. You can pay A LOT more for the slightly better, the same or even worse work. Most people are happy with the 30-40 HP that they pick up for the amount of $$$ spent. To some, another 10 HP might be worth another $500 to $1000, to some it is not.
I can assure you that MY flow bench shows these #'s. MY bench also shows a stock LT1 to flow 215 cfm or so. If another bench shows a stock LT1 to flow 200 cfm, they will show my ported #'s to be lower as well.
There is more to making power than .600 lift flow #'s. The flow #'s at .150-.450 are MORE important. Runner volume, port taper and velocity are equally important. A lot of people know this and a GOOD head will have a good compromise of ALL of these. The head with the highest flow #'s at .600 lift could have usually had a different valve job or back cut and picked up some flow in more important areas. The runner volume is usually larger on a a higher flowing head as well.
My point is that just because a 260 cfm head makes more power than a 270 cfm head doesn't mean that the 270 cfm is "A LIE". The 260 cfm head could flow better at more important lift points and have better velocity with a smaller port. Once again. I am not claiming to have the best heads, just a good head at a good price. Maybe not good enough for some but good enough for A LOT of people. There are better heads for $$$ but just because the price is higher doesn't automatically make them better. I am learning all of the time and I am steadily making my ports smaller in certain areas and gaining cfm in these areas. Not that the heads are bad now but they are getting better from the things that I learn.
On the average 370-410 RWHP LT1, with a catalog cam and comparable tuning, I honestly feel my heads are just as good as most and the few heads that are better (and more expensive) will dyno similar #'s regardless.
I am not sure whose portwork you were shown but most people see nothing wrong with my work. If or Warren Johnson was shown a picture of my heads, I would expect him to find flaws from a pic. I am not sure what porting experience you have so you either have LOTS of experience or were shown different pics. Not that a picture will show much anyway other than OBVIOUS flaws. Once the port has been sandpaper rolled, a picture makes everything look pretty.
Lloyd
NightTrain66@msn.com"
"I do not claim to be the best.
I just claim to be good for the $$$. You can pay A LOT more for the slightly better, the same or even worse work. Most people are happy with the 30-40 HP that they pick up for the amount of $$$ spent. To some, another 10 HP might be worth another $500 to $1000, to some it is not.
I can assure you that MY flow bench shows these #'s. MY bench also shows a stock LT1 to flow 215 cfm or so. If another bench shows a stock LT1 to flow 200 cfm, they will show my ported #'s to be lower as well.
There is more to making power than .600 lift flow #'s. The flow #'s at .150-.450 are MORE important. Runner volume, port taper and velocity are equally important. A lot of people know this and a GOOD head will have a good compromise of ALL of these. The head with the highest flow #'s at .600 lift could have usually had a different valve job or back cut and picked up some flow in more important areas. The runner volume is usually larger on a a higher flowing head as well.
My point is that just because a 260 cfm head makes more power than a 270 cfm head doesn't mean that the 270 cfm is "A LIE". The 260 cfm head could flow better at more important lift points and have better velocity with a smaller port. Once again. I am not claiming to have the best heads, just a good head at a good price. Maybe not good enough for some but good enough for A LOT of people. There are better heads for $$$ but just because the price is higher doesn't automatically make them better. I am learning all of the time and I am steadily making my ports smaller in certain areas and gaining cfm in these areas. Not that the heads are bad now but they are getting better from the things that I learn.
On the average 370-410 RWHP LT1, with a catalog cam and comparable tuning, I honestly feel my heads are just as good as most and the few heads that are better (and more expensive) will dyno similar #'s regardless.
I am not sure whose portwork you were shown but most people see nothing wrong with my work. If or Warren Johnson was shown a picture of my heads, I would expect him to find flaws from a pic. I am not sure what porting experience you have so you either have LOTS of experience or were shown different pics. Not that a picture will show much anyway other than OBVIOUS flaws. Once the port has been sandpaper rolled, a picture makes everything look pretty.
Lloyd
NightTrain66@msn.com"
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,764
From: North Canton, OH
Even a correctly ported set of heads given to someone who does not know how to tune or other incorrect parts can kill power.
Hence you can get someone with a killer set of heads who cant tune with crap, adjust rockers wrong, who know what else, or get's a crap cam. Power will not be there. Does that make the heads bad? Nope. Does that make the porter a fraud. Nope.
Flow numbers are great for bragging rights, but you consistently see guys with heads that are not remarkable making very good power against guys with big honking flow numbers with mismatched parts.
Now when the guys that show up with the big dog heads with matching parts to boot, then you see some smack laid down...but there is a group of guys with similar parts not doing as well, so it must be the porter??
Hence you can get someone with a killer set of heads who cant tune with crap, adjust rockers wrong, who know what else, or get's a crap cam. Power will not be there. Does that make the heads bad? Nope. Does that make the porter a fraud. Nope.
Flow numbers are great for bragging rights, but you consistently see guys with heads that are not remarkable making very good power against guys with big honking flow numbers with mismatched parts.
Now when the guys that show up with the big dog heads with matching parts to boot, then you see some smack laid down...but there is a group of guys with similar parts not doing as well, so it must be the porter??
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 5,645
From: Bridgewater, MA
Originally posted by CANTONRACER
Even a correctly ported set of heads given to someone who does not know how to tune or other incorrect parts can kill power.
Hence you can get someone with a killer set of heads who cant tune with crap, adjust rockers wrong, who know what else, or get's a crap cam. Power will not be there. Does that make the heads bad? Nope. Does that make the porter a fraud. Nope.
Flow numbers are great for bragging rights, but you consistently see guys with heads that are not remarkable making very good power against guys with big honking flow numbers with mismatched parts.
Now when the guys that show up with the big dog heads with matching parts to boot, then you see some smack laid down...but there is a group of guys with similar parts not doing as well, so it must be the porter??
Even a correctly ported set of heads given to someone who does not know how to tune or other incorrect parts can kill power.
Hence you can get someone with a killer set of heads who cant tune with crap, adjust rockers wrong, who know what else, or get's a crap cam. Power will not be there. Does that make the heads bad? Nope. Does that make the porter a fraud. Nope.
Flow numbers are great for bragging rights, but you consistently see guys with heads that are not remarkable making very good power against guys with big honking flow numbers with mismatched parts.
Now when the guys that show up with the big dog heads with matching parts to boot, then you see some smack laid down...but there is a group of guys with similar parts not doing as well, so it must be the porter??
Registered User
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 906
From: Los Angeles, CA
Naegesh, do you know Lloyd? Have you had heads ported by him? I didn't think so because if you did you wouldn't be posting the bs that you posted. From the communication and experience I have had dealing with Lloyd I can tell you he is a great guy. He expresses a genuine interest in helping people out. Judging by the responses to your ignorant post I can tell I am not the only one who feels this way, so why don't you keep your hear say to yourself instead of bad mouthing a good mans reputation.
