Not happy w/ Madz28
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 1,614
From: Charlotte, NC
Re: Not happy w/ Madz28
Originally Posted by 96capricemgr
Factory fueling is rich at WOT and timing can be further optimized some of you guys actually trying to claim optomizing those wont gain power? Step away from the car because you don't understand how it works. The factory tunes are full of compromise and have to work for every driver and every car, emmisions, milage and safety of the engine and will be conservative even trying to hit those goals, even besides the fact that bone stock the LT1 was nearing the 4L60E's torque capacity so they weren't going to push it any further there. They leave a fair amount of room for improvement and the vast majority of peoples expeiances are that tuning even a stock car is worth it for the low cost involved.
Amen, The stock tune is designed to work from sealevel to CO and UT. Its also designed to deal with 87 octane, 200+ degree coolant temps, etc.. Its also meant to be tame when it comes to shifting and shift pionts. If you can't see that a gain is possible when tuning these factory rich and with less than optimal timing I dont know what to tell you.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 1,614
From: Charlotte, NC
Re: Not happy w/ Madz28
I just wanted to say also that just because some local has a dyno doesn't meant they are qualified to tune anything. I see this all to often.. Just because some local speed shop gets a dyno and superchips or LS1 edit package everyone thinks they can tune.
I've got some really serously bad examples of this crap. Even from some shops and tuners that people consider 'tuning gods'
I've got some really serously bad examples of this crap. Even from some shops and tuners that people consider 'tuning gods'
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 12,312
From: Aurora, IL
Re: Not happy w/ Madz28
Originally Posted by Kreinmc
This promised gain of 15 rwhp on a bolton car is complete BS. There is no way in hell that a properly running car will pick up that much power. A tune can be good for things like upping the rev limiter or deleting codes, but don't count on gaining a lot of power from a tune. I have to disagree with alvin saying that a tune on a bolt on car is the best bang for the buck mod you can do. The 6 hp you get from pulling out the airfilter and maf screen will net better results. I have sitting at my house 3 pcms... 1 stock, 1 tuned for bolton's from madz28, and 1 tuned for boltons from pcmforless. Fact is there really was no gain to be had with either pcm and I dyno'd less with the madz28 tune than i did the pcmforless tune. I can guarantee that if I put my car on the dyno and dyno the pcms back-to-back-to-back that neither pcmforless or madz28 will gain the stated 15rwhp! I bet I don't even gain 7 rwhp.
Needless to say I bailed him out and gave him a deal. As for the tune from MadZ28, it definitely made a difference, whether I gained 15 rwhp, I dont know, nor do I care. He did plenty of other things where the car is running so much better.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,907
From: The Wild West
Re: Not happy w/ Madz28
I can easily swap my tunes out with my computer (ALDL cable and email tuning). If Ion or anyone else wants to have a controlled dyno experiment on a pure bolt on car, I am ready an willing to go to a dyno, put the stock tune on, then swap over to the bolt on tune and post the gains. I could also do it at the track if it wasnt raining. Cantonracer/Grease/Darkhorse, all know people at a local dyno and if I got even half the funds I'd go do it. Just for documented and controlled proof. Just thought I'd throw this out there since some people think PCM tunes on bolt are cars are worth little to nothing. I think some quality experiments wouldnt hurt.
Could even go through a board vendor like GMR speed. They could act as a unbenefiting third party control.
-Dustin-
Could even go through a board vendor like GMR speed. They could act as a unbenefiting third party control.
-Dustin-
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,577
From: DeKalb, IL
Re: Not happy w/ Madz28
I think everyone with some knowledge on this subject will agree that as a rule, factory LT1 cars come programmed with an air fuel ratio descending into ~11.7 to 1 at wide open throttle. Leaning this out to a targeted 13 to 1, plus timing changes WILL yield 13 RWHP on a car that adheres to that rule.
Which part exactly is unbelievable here?
Now if your car has eleventy billion miles on it and injectors are semi-clogged (example), causing this air fuel ratio to be leaner than it should, of course you will not see gains. On a well running car that has had good maintenance and runs premium octane, you WILL see these gains. I've done it NUMEROUS times on the dyno, or else I would not be claiming these gains. Anyone who knows me a bit closer than through the occasional phone conversation knows and can confirm that I am not the type of person to scam people or not stand by my work.
Which part exactly is unbelievable here?
Now if your car has eleventy billion miles on it and injectors are semi-clogged (example), causing this air fuel ratio to be leaner than it should, of course you will not see gains. On a well running car that has had good maintenance and runs premium octane, you WILL see these gains. I've done it NUMEROUS times on the dyno, or else I would not be claiming these gains. Anyone who knows me a bit closer than through the occasional phone conversation knows and can confirm that I am not the type of person to scam people or not stand by my work.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,271
From: Bahrain
Re: Not happy w/ Madz28
Originally Posted by blind527
Going with Ion made a HUGE difference in my car. He was even willing to meet up with me and personally tune my car for me.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,907
From: The Wild West
Re: Not happy w/ Madz28
Originally Posted by Honda Hunter
I wish someone would be willing to meet up with me to tune my car.
Ion, I agree, no worries about my money sent to his wallet.
-Dustin-
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,271
From: Bahrain
Re: Not happy w/ Madz28
Originally Posted by Bersaglieri
I would and have meet people to tune, if you near NE Ohio its possible.
Ion, I agree, no worries about my money sent to his wallet.
-Dustin-
Ion, I agree, no worries about my money sent to his wallet.
-Dustin-
) Kuwait, and Saudi and gain double once word gets around mail order tunes from this region would go up 10 fold because word of mouth is pretty strong from what Ive seen here. After futher thought not to sure about going to Saudi. Wish I knew more people to put this together.
Registered User
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 319
From: Four Oaks, NC
Re: Not happy w/ Madz28
I have MadZ28 tuning done to my car and love it. It is a minimum of 10 times better than the hypertech tuning I had and Ion adjusted for my hot cam. Plus he has stood behind his work and sent me additional tunes for gear changes.
As stated in previous entries, the tuning will not fix something mechanically wrong with the car. If your eyes are watering from the exhaust, there is something else wrong - dead O2 sensors, bad injectors, ect that are causing a problem that the tuning has nothing to do with.
If I have a problem with a vendor or store, I try talking to the vendor first.
As stated in previous entries, the tuning will not fix something mechanically wrong with the car. If your eyes are watering from the exhaust, there is something else wrong - dead O2 sensors, bad injectors, ect that are causing a problem that the tuning has nothing to do with.
If I have a problem with a vendor or store, I try talking to the vendor first.
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,651
From: baycity, mi
Re: Not happy w/ Madz28
i just bought a tune from ion (got it today) he answered every question i had (even the dumb ones) and i have total confidence that when i fire the car up tomarow its gonna run awsome!
Banned
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 6,518
Re: Not happy w/ Madz28
Originally Posted by madwolf
All I have to say is wow. I have not received any kind of notification from you or anything, not to mention, that the tune might not even be the issue, since plenty of cars see that 13 RWHP gain out of the same tune. And for the amount of things you get done for $80, I don't see how that could ever be a bad deal to the point where someone would post something like this.
Just go ahead and send it back, I'll put it back to stock and refund your money.
Just go ahead and send it back, I'll put it back to stock and refund your money.
I would do this and call it a day. Your headaches from this guy are not worth you trying to please him, you can't please everyone.
BTW PM me his name cause I don't want to work with him either.
(The reason for this guys is I don't work with people who don't respect a guy enough for his knowledge and can't talk to him first before running his trap like a old lady at a sowing circle. Might sound like a ******* thing to do but don't worry even my mom thinks I'm one.)
Bret
Last edited by SStrokerAce; Oct 8, 2005 at 08:29 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 692
From: Clinton Twp MI USA
Re: Not happy w/ Madz28
If he has not already, I am sure Ion will make it right. He does exactly what he says he will. Including troubleshooting after the fact. I am very happy with my pcm tune by Mad Z28.
Ion - You the Man!
Ion - You the Man!
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 599
From: Waterloo, Ontario
Re: Not happy w/ Madz28
Wow is all I can say after reading this. Being a licensed tech in Ontario, Canada I have a pretty good understanding of cars. I ordered a tune from Ion when I did a cam and headers this spring. After seeing the dyno graph and the power it makes I'm very impressed. I had installed some ported MAF ends prior to doing the cam/headers and didn't remove them after getting the tune. I was running into cam surge and the fuel trim #'s were way high. I read a lot of posts about descreened mafs and ported mafs and I decided to put the stock ends back on and to my surprise the cam surge is nearly all gone and I picked up a tenth in the 1/4. By reading the original post here and seeing he has a rich issue and has descreened his MAF all I can say is put the screen back in and reset the fuel trim #'s and give Ion's tune a chance to work.
Dan
Dan