Knowing the current will tell him if the starter is drawing too much. This, of course, will vary from engine to engine because of different compression ratios.

The two go hand in hand. If you have a voltage drop across the cable then your cable is too small. The reason for the voltage drop is because the cable is providing resistance due to it being too small and unable to handle the current load.

Voltage Drop(across the cable) x Current(across the cable) will give you the amount of power being dropped across the cable itself(any is BAD!!...this is because you are taking power away from the starter).

The voltage drop across the cable when starting or not starting should be always be zero. Voltage drop across the starter should always match what is across the battery. It will never remain a solid 12V, when starting, due the load on the battery .

 

You mentioned that you replaced all the cables(I think).....

Are you sure you are getting a solid connection to both the posts of the battery? If not, you will have a huge drop across that connection that you may not be able to measure easily.

This may not show up until a very high load is placed on the battery. The higher the load, the worse high resistance connections will pull power.

 

Hrmm, I have a feeling if I am seeing 12v - 0v at the battery, I would imagine it would do the same thing at the starter. The positive of the starter is tied into the battery positive terminal, this is how it gets power. So I should see the same amount of drop across the starter wire. So in theory I bet I would see 12v - 0v across the starter wire.

I tested the coil wire. It ohmed out at 8.02 on all connections so I guess the coil is ok. So why wouldnt I get spark to the coil? I even tried hooking a spark plug up to the coil to see if I got spark and nada. What is the first sparking device in the line? I thought it was the ICM, Coil, then Distributor.

 

it will also tell you if you have a loose terminal, corrosion, broken wire or any of the other problems associated with wiring

i am sure you could test it with current but i have never seen anyone do it that way, college, ford training, ase certs i was always told voltage drop is the best indication of a wiring fault

and normal voltage drop specs are usually in the area of a half a volt

 

Are you guys reading my posts?

If I am getting 12vdc on my meter and when I crank it goes right down to 0vdc then I highly doubt that the starter is the problem. I am measureing from negative battery post to positive battery post. I dont even have my starter plugged in right now.

If someone could direct me on what the first electrical component that is supposed to fire it would be really helpful.

I tried looking at the schematic and from what I can tell its the ICM.

Can someone verify this for me?

Thanks.

 

Ok, I have the battery, alternator,distributor and coil hooked up. When I test for spark at a plug wire I get nothing. I dont here a crank or anything, just a click. I checked all fuses and they are all good. I recrimped all my electrical connections and they all ohmed out.

I get 12.02vDC in the on position, when I crank it over it drops to 11.9vDC, but no spark. So I know that spark is my problem, I just have no idea if the opti is dead or the ICM. I tested out the coil and like I said it all ohmed out good.

I dont want to through money at it and I feel I have pretty much determined the two last things. How do I test the ICM?

 

your not understanding what everyone is trying to tell you to do

you need to test to make sure that the WIRE going from the battery to the starter is good

the way it works is if there is any resistance in a wire, it will act like a load, such as a light bulb or a electric motor would. A load eats up voltage

look at it this way, if your battery is putting out 12.6 volts, and your starter wire bad and eating 12 of those volts, there is only .6V left for the starter to run on, and that would produce results similar to what is happening to your car.

The way to test for this,
1. set your multimeter to DC Volts
2. connect your positive lead to the positive terminal on you battery (try to put it on the acual battery terminal not the connector)
3. connect your negitive lead to the positive terminal on the starter (the one where the wire from the battery connects to)
4. now, with everything connected try to crank the car

If the wire and all connections are good the multimeter SHOULD read below .5V, anything higher then that and you have a high resistance situation somewhere in that wire from the battery to the starter and it needs to be replaced

btw im a mercedes benz tech

 

if your engine is not cranking over your spark plugs wont fire

and ohming out connections means nothing, you NEED to voltage drop to determine if there is resistance or not, look at it like this, say you have 1 strand of copper wire and you ohm it out, ther iwill b 0 ohms, but if you try to put 12 volts with 120A through it there is not enough copper for all that current to pass through and you will have a huge voltage drop across it

 

So, just so I am following... I dont have the starter hooked up at all right now, and its still not giving me any spark. Why would I want to add the starter in the loop to troubleshoot it when it currently isnt even in the picture and the problem is still happening?

I was always taught to eliminate all peripherals if possible and keep the circuit as simple as possible. Without the starter in the equation I would have the following items to test..

Battery, Alternator, ICM, Distributor, and coil.

I had the Battery, Alternator tested along with the starter, so now I know its not the batt/alternator. I purchased a new Opti from Dal and it has maybe 5k miles max on it, so I doubt its the opti. So this leaves the coil or ICM. I tested out the coil using shoebox's instructions and the coil tests out good. So I am now left with the ICM being the culprit.

So, I am just curious why you want me to throw the starter into the mix...

Not trying to be a pain, just trying to better understand.

 

im me on aim if u want my sn is the same as my user name

 

I dont have aim. How about the cz28.com chat room! I will be in there.

 

well your right in a sence, eliminate whats good, but without the engine cranking via the starter you cant have spark.

lets go over the starting system,
youve eliminated:
the starter
the battery

you havent eliminated the wire between the two, and without the starter and the battery in place, you cannot properly test the wire

it sounds to me like your problem is in your starting system because the engine dosnt crank over via the starter, however does turn fine by hand with the spark plugs out. with the spark plugs in and 10.5:1 compression it will be somewhat difficult to turn it over by hand

 

Ok, after chatting with Joe.

I did a voltage drop test.

It went from 12.1 to 8.9. After explaining that I already upsized the wire and my battery possibly being a little low. I went to double check my connection to the starter seleniod... The stud that sticks out of the seleniod has about 1/4" circular play in the seleniod. I am betting this is causing a high resistance and thats why I have such a big voltage drop, not my wires...

Any takers on this idea?

 

Don't do any imagining...never assume anything in troubleshooting. Make sure you verify it with testing.

Now, read this...

Now there is only ONE reason that ANY voltage source goes to zero when a load is supplied. You are pulling more power than the voltage source can provide.

So you have the possible conditions....

1. Your battery is junk.
2. You have a short somewhere.
3. You have too much resistance in your starter supply wire.

Hook everything back up.

Turn your key to the run position. What does your CAR voltage gauge tell you???? Is it above the red with the key in run?

Now try to start it...what does the CAR voltage gauge do??? Does it drop to zero??? Does the engine turn over? If your battery is rated at 525 CCA then it should be able to provide 525 amps @ 7.2 volts for 30 SECONDS. It SHOULD NOT just turn over for a second and then stop.

Now, from what you have been describing it sounds EXACTLY like your battery is junk.

Here is why I think that.....I got a call from my brother that his car would not crank one day. I gave it a jump and it had serious problems starting....but did finally. We headed to an Auto parts store with me following. In the middle of traffic, his car just DIED. The battery was so drained and consuming so much of the alternators power that it could not sustain the cars other systems. A new battery fixed the problem.

Have you actually tried a known good battery in your car?

You need to get a battery that is known good and try it in your car.

Now the below makes no sense.....

Statement 1
"If I am getting 12vdc on my meter and when I crank it goes right down to 0vdc then I highly doubt that the starter is the problem. I am measureing from negative battery post to positive battery post. I dont even have my starter plugged in right now."

Statement 2
"Ok, I have the battery, alternator,distributor and coil hooked up. When I test for spark at a plug wire I get nothing. I dont here a crank or anything, just a click. I checked all fuses and they are all good. I recrimped all my electrical connections and they all ohmed out.

I get 12.02vDC in the on position, when I crank it over it drops to 11.9vDC, but no spark. So I know that spark is my problem, I just have no idea if the opti is dead or the ICM. I tested out the coil and like I said it all ohmed out good."

The two posts contradict each other...how can you have it go to zero volts in the top one and not in the bottom one?

 

If your ring terminal is too small it could cause a problem, but it does not explain why your car just died in traffic. I still think you need to try a known good battery....one that will start and run a car with NO problems. Heck, put your battery in another car....will it crank it okay?