Origionally my starter stopped working, long story short I pulled the battery from the car for 48 hours. Put it back in and after I jumped the relay in the picture below I got the starter to work, but the car will not start.

bypassed relay
I just stuck a wire in the brown wire side that comes from the clutch cutoff, to the purple wire side that goes to the starter.

Now the problem is that I am getting no spark. I do have fuel, at least im 90% sure because I smell gas a minute after I attempt to start the car up. Im getting no spark from the Ignition coil, and it is brand new. Anyone know what to replace now, or where my problem is?

It could be the VATS I think but I am getting no securty light as I did this one time before when my key was very dirty. Also I measured the resistance of the key, and measured the resistance at the 2 wires that come from the igntion at the connector that can be seen in shoebox's vats bypass diagram and they both measure within 10 Ohms of eacother, both well within the high/low range.

I can suppy more pictures of anything that will help you diagnos this within 15 mins of you asking so feel free to ask if you think it will help.

 

checked fuses? ignition fuse 11 underhood (10 AMP)?

 

Fuse is good, doublechecked all my fueses while I was at it, they are all good also. I really think its a vats problem :-/ Might have to buy a new module

 

Why do you suspect VATS? You said you are getting fuel and that's what the VATS will shut off.

Check for trouble codes. No spark could be an opti trouble.

BTW, the Passkey functions are incorporated in the BCM 1996 and later. There is no separate VATS module.

 

So what is the grey relay that I am bypassing? It has the starter-in/starter-out (the part I bypass), an Another wire, and then a small white/blackstripe wire(looks like it would come from the passkey)

Also Im not getting spark out of the ignition coil, would a bad opti cause this?

 

that relay is the Theft Deterrent Relay, the lower left part of this diagram:
http://shbox.com/1/starter_charging_96.jpg
here's a diagram for the Opti/coil:
http://shbox.com/1/95_ign_system_schematic.jpg
(those diagrams are for 96 and 95 respectively, so 97 might be different)
btw, those are from shoebox's website, and there are alot more, you should check it out, great resource. later!

jeremy

 

Slokepoke suggested to :
One other thing, the theft deterrent relay you jumped around is activated by the BCM. It will ground the yellow/black wire. With the key in the start position and your clutch start switch closed when pressing the pedal, the BCM provides the ground to pull in the relay. You can't really check it to ground but if you ground it with a jumper wire and it pulls in but doesn't otherwise, the proper conditions may not have been met for the BCM to pull the relay in. Or it may be wiring or a BCM problem. That wire goes to the BCM on pin C11 of the larger of the 3 connectors.

And that worked, I dont have to bypass the relay to get the starter working. But the car still won't start. Is the bcm bad? Anyone know if the BCM cuts off spark?

 

by looking at shoebox's schematics http://shbox.com/1/starter_charging_96.jpg and http://shbox.com/1/bcm_1996.jpg it looks like if the bcm was the problem it should cut the fuel also. But I'm almost posotive that I can smell gas after trying to start it. I think if the bcm was the problem I would be having more problems around the car. Could it be something with my ignition control module? Could it not be giving the bcm the ok to start the ignition? I'm just so frustrated and almost out of ideas as I have been at this for over a week.

 

Maybe a return to basics is in order here. Check fuel pressure, check for injector pulses. Check for spark.

I don't see why you are discounting the BCM because other things work???? Have you not seen a PCM that lost it's drive circuit for an injector(s)? Everything else worked fine.

When I originally told you to check the yellow/black wire, that was for a cranking problem. Now I'm not sure what your problem is.

Remember the VATs will only effect cranking and fuel. When it does so, it will either flash the security light or turn it on steady.

Last, smelling fuel is not a good method of testing it's presence. If you had a bad fuel pump that wasn't putting out enough pressure, it would be there but would not start. SEE THE FIRST PARAGRAPH

 

Ok I double checked the basics, well some of them at least. I have ~42psi fuel pressure, And there is no spark coming out of the ignition coil. I tried bypassing my MSD and still no spark from the coil. I dont know how to check for injector pulses but I want to solve my spark problem first and hopefully they will both be solved at the same time.
BCM:
When I have the ignition on, D5(ignition) has ~12v
So why would the ignition coil not be working?
I just replaced the coil and the ignition control to try and solve this.
Security light is not on.
So by going thru this I am starting to think that replacing my BCM is the only option. I really hope it fixes the problem. Anyone see anything that im overlooking?

**shoebox you think this is an opti problem rather than a BCM?**
thanks again to everyone who helped me narrow this down.

 

You should use this procedure to try to see if you are getting pulses to the coil. The diagram is slightly different at the coil for your car, but it won't matter as you are looking for conditions at the ICM connector (which is the same).

 

Is the relay still bypassed to make it turn over?

 

Unless the Ignition coil module isnt the small black plastic piece on the coil bracket, something strange is going on.
The 2 middle connectors show nothing to ground, while the 2 outsides show 12v.
The 2 middle connectors however do show 12v to the + batt terminal.

I will check for AC voltage as soon as my brother gets home in 15 mins.

 

Somewhat yes, I still have to ground the relay to make it turn over. It's still not getting the ground from the BCM.

 

You must follow the directions explicitly. Make sure you look at the letter designations on the connector! They are A-B-C-D. The connector diagram is drawn for ease of reference-not as a physical representation of the connector.