96 WS6

When i installed a set of stock lifters over my comp r's two days ago I thought all my problems were solved. The car ran like a beast and made great vacuum even when the motor was still cold. Since then, every time I start the car for a drive the performance gets worse and worse until it ran like it did with the comp r's in the car and my idle vacuum went from around 15 or 16 to 13 or 14 warm and even less than that when the car is started up cold. What is really interesting is that when I first started the car and lifters were still clacking a little bit, it made 16" of vacuum wiht the IAC open for extra warmup air!!!

I think somehow the lifters aren't allowing the valve to close all the way. Actually I'm almost sure that is the problem. Cold or hot, I can't push the lifters down by pushing on the rockers. They are all rock hard like solid lifters. I thought it was the valve adjustment because I did them cold originally but I redid all 8 driver's side valves to 1/4 past zero and it made no difference whatsoever and the adjustment with the car running was almost exactly how I had it done with the car off (for those who think doing it with the car off is inaccurate).

I'm running comp 918 springs with the 4705 seat and the steel retainer with the +.05 locks. I never mic'd the install height but that combination is supposed to be around 1.75". The lift on my cam is .560/.577, hefty for this spring setup

I am running mobil 15-50 right now but in the past I have ran various 40 weight oils and it has made no change in performance.

Anybody? Any idea no matter how far fatched is appreciated... I have not had this car running well in over a year. It's almost time for me to call it quits and take the damn thing apart and bring it back to stock... for that amount of money I could have a buick turbo and make my eclipse run 10s...

Mike96z

Do you have stock heads? If you have stock heads, that cam is way too big and that's the whole problem and if you don't have LT's, it's even worse. I'd say too much cam if that's the case.

96 WS6

What does having stock heads have to do with my problem? It's not the problem, the car has ran good before. The heads are stock though and I do have LTs.

96 WS6

ttt

1racerdude

It's hard for me to believe the lifters won't bleed down. There is nothing to stop them from it.
Ya may and probably do have a spring issue 'cause when the valves are clacking they are NOT producing full lift and when quiet ya got no/less vacuum see what I mean.


Ya got stock heads?

96 WS6

Okay so kind of spring issue do I have? Where can I get a height micrometer?? I am using comp 918s with the 4705 seat, steel retainer, and +.05 locks. That combo is supposed to put you between 1.75 and 1.8" on stock heads. Is that not right???

And when did it become a crime to have stock heads? The car runs hard (when it runs) and I will get heads when I have the time to do it, probably when I build the engine. I have been contemplating a LE2 headed 383 but that won't happen till the end of summer maybe. Regardless though, this cam being on a 115 lsa make it pretty driveable. The idle is not very lopey or anything either... If I had an 847 or a cc306 or something then I could have issues. My cam is just 3* duration above the famous 224/236 cam with a little more lift.

1racerdude

Just razzin ya about the stock heads like Mike 96z did.
Little touchy are ya.

How far away from coil bind are ya?
Is the retainer hitting the guide or seal?
If ya have 1.750 installed height ya should have about .073 before coil bind,but I don't know that without checking.( with a 1.100 coil bind)
Do ya have a guide problem to tight or loose?
How is your geometry?
Is the rocker hitting the retainer? That's quite possible with .050 up keepers and no lash caps. And pushrods that are too short.

SStrokerAce

So 227/239 cam? How high are you twisting the motor? Does the performance get worse when you go beat on it?

Bret

1racerdude

http://www.powerandperformancenews.c...?Store_Code=PH


Here is a link to get a height checker or Summit.

96 WS6

I never twist it past 6000 or maybe 6200. I have not had it running well enough to take it to the dyno, but I estimate that peak power will be around 6200 given that the cam is on a 115 lsa and that's what others have suggested.

I have not noticed it much until lately but the performance has been decreasing as I drive it more, not necessarily beating on it, just driving. It hasn't always done that though. The car has ran good in the past with this exact setup minus the delteq. After somebody I knew drove the car and slammed the rev limiter for about 30 seconds doing a rolling burnout the car was never the same... UNTIL I put those stock lifters in, then it ran awesome for like a day or so but I could tell that there was still something wrong. The motor is not damaged, I take very good care of it and the compression is perfect 210 across the board. I'm convinced its a mechanical problem in the valvetrain.

I cant check the coil bind without a micrometer, but the motor spins freely by hand if that tells you anything...

I don't know if the retainer is hitting the guide or seal but I will inspect them for damage.

I don't think it's a guide problem. I have swapped the valve springs twice on this car, the first time for EX612s and the second time for 918s and both times the valve moved freely in and out of the cc but I felt no play in them.

What do you mean by geometry? If that has anything to do with the guideplates then they do look somewhat odd to me. The pushrod does not move straight up and down it's guided at a slight angle. I never thought much of it, I assumed that since they were gm guideplates they fit right. Actually I just went on combination motorsports website where I bought them from and it appears that they are not GM they are EX components. Could they really cause a bad problem like this thought if they were off???

The rocker looks like it makes good solid contact with the valve tip but I obviously can't see it that well with the engine running, they move pretty fast. The pushrods are the stock 94/95 hardened ones.

SStrokerAce

Take out the pushrods and check to see if they are still straight on a surface plate or a piece of glass.

Bret

96 WS6

I checked the driver's side and they were straight... should I go ahead and check all of them? I guess I should. At least I don't have to pull the intake off again.

1racerdude

Is it possible ya got a/some flat lobes on that cam? Is it possible the timing chain jumped?

Ya can check coil bind by rolling a cyl up to max lift(with a solid lifter,ya can make one out of the ones ya are using) and put a feeler guage between the coils.

If ya got a spare lifter or one of the ones ya are using(treat it gently) take it appart and take the guts out of it. Cut a 3/8" bolt and grind it until the pushrod cap and lock ring will just go together and use it to check with.

96 WS6

The cam is fine and I doubt the timing chain jumped. It's a cloyes double roller, but even it wasn't there was no reason for it to jump. The car has ran well in the past for about a month before it got messed up again.

I'm leaning more towards the guideplates being a problem than the valve springs. But can guideplates cause bad problems like the ones I have? I did a little searching and it appears that EX components guideplates with comp nsa rr's is not a good combination.

1racerdude

Can't see the plates causing a performance problem other than alignment.
Ya need GM plates for those heads.