interesting news from AFR...
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 586
From: Oklahoma City, OK
interesting news from AFR...
I'm not sure if it's been posted here, but it was posted on another forum...
On to the better news....I would also like to confirm that we are in fact about to release a complete re-design on our entire 23' Chevy line. We are calling it the Eliminator line and it will address ALL the issues typically found on this board (oil return, casting issues, lead times, etc.) as well as raise the bar in 23' performance to all new levels by infusing some technology brought to us with the Gen III stuff (LS program) as well as a dramatic improvement in flow numbers, with the focus of the redesign concentrating on strong low and midlift flow, early "peak" numbers, and small cross sectional area. This is a complete "clean sheet of paper" approach....castings, hardware, port designs....everything has been optimized and improved.
I'm not at liberty just yet to discuss actual flow figures, but suffice to say we have worked long and hard at producing a 23' head that is the most efficient piece we have ever tested when comparing flow numbers and cross sectional area (the goal being high airspeed without restricting volume). Our new 195 "street" package will flow in the 280-290 CFM range @ .600 lift (with a 1205 Felpro entrance and a 2.05 valve)....our new 195 "Comp" package will flow in the neighborhood of 300 CFM's at the same lift with a larger 1206 entrance and a 2.08 valve (unheard of numbers in such a small head....our new Comp 195 outflows our current 210 cc offering). The low and midlift flow also shows solid gains as well over our current offerings and the exhaust ports have also been dramatically improved and refined (230+ CFM in our Comp 195).
Other big news with this product is the switch to lighter 8 mm valves and lighter springs and retainers which have been proving themselves in the Gen III LS market for years. Valve float will be minimized and much higher RPM's will be able to be attained with both the lighter valvetrain components and of course complimented by the additional airflow the new designs will provide.
The first heads to be available will be our 180 and 195 versions....the larger 200cc+ race heads are currently being developed and will trail the release of the street stuff by a couple of months at least. Look to see some of the new street heads trickling in to dealers and private individuals in the next two months or so. There will also be alot of magazine tests in the future as well....they have been chomping at the bit to try these ever since we released the information to them some time ago.
I just wanted to again clear up a myth concerning our current product and also share whats on the near term horizon concerning AFR so anyone in the market for heads would have this info to consider. I'm confident our entire Eliminator line will push the envelope of "bolt on" 23 degree performance to all new levels....and if you don't believe the "hype", sit back and keep an eye out for the dyno and track results.....you won't be disappointed.
Tony Mamo
AFR Sales / Product Design Mgr.
(818)890-0616 Ext. 109
also, relating to marketing dates...
I will be doing so in the next few weeks....at that point in time we will also be able to take orders and provide more information on the new program....we are all pretty excited about it here.
And just to clarify, our reputation over the years has certainly been earned....you don't get one without earning it.
The new stuff about to be released will continue to cement and enforce that we are serious about staying on top and our goal is to provide you guys with a killer "bolt on" out of the box cylinder head.
More info coming soon...
Lastly, on LTx intakes...
Our 180 version will take the LT1 intake.....the street 195 (with the smaller entrance) could go either way, and the Comp 195 would be better suited to the larger LT4 intake, or a ported LT1 which I have heard some people actually prefer. Our larger versions to be offered down the road (in our new Eliminator line) would naturally accept the LT4 or ported LT1 intakes.
On to the better news....I would also like to confirm that we are in fact about to release a complete re-design on our entire 23' Chevy line. We are calling it the Eliminator line and it will address ALL the issues typically found on this board (oil return, casting issues, lead times, etc.) as well as raise the bar in 23' performance to all new levels by infusing some technology brought to us with the Gen III stuff (LS program) as well as a dramatic improvement in flow numbers, with the focus of the redesign concentrating on strong low and midlift flow, early "peak" numbers, and small cross sectional area. This is a complete "clean sheet of paper" approach....castings, hardware, port designs....everything has been optimized and improved.
I'm not at liberty just yet to discuss actual flow figures, but suffice to say we have worked long and hard at producing a 23' head that is the most efficient piece we have ever tested when comparing flow numbers and cross sectional area (the goal being high airspeed without restricting volume). Our new 195 "street" package will flow in the 280-290 CFM range @ .600 lift (with a 1205 Felpro entrance and a 2.05 valve)....our new 195 "Comp" package will flow in the neighborhood of 300 CFM's at the same lift with a larger 1206 entrance and a 2.08 valve (unheard of numbers in such a small head....our new Comp 195 outflows our current 210 cc offering). The low and midlift flow also shows solid gains as well over our current offerings and the exhaust ports have also been dramatically improved and refined (230+ CFM in our Comp 195).
Other big news with this product is the switch to lighter 8 mm valves and lighter springs and retainers which have been proving themselves in the Gen III LS market for years. Valve float will be minimized and much higher RPM's will be able to be attained with both the lighter valvetrain components and of course complimented by the additional airflow the new designs will provide.
The first heads to be available will be our 180 and 195 versions....the larger 200cc+ race heads are currently being developed and will trail the release of the street stuff by a couple of months at least. Look to see some of the new street heads trickling in to dealers and private individuals in the next two months or so. There will also be alot of magazine tests in the future as well....they have been chomping at the bit to try these ever since we released the information to them some time ago.
I just wanted to again clear up a myth concerning our current product and also share whats on the near term horizon concerning AFR so anyone in the market for heads would have this info to consider. I'm confident our entire Eliminator line will push the envelope of "bolt on" 23 degree performance to all new levels....and if you don't believe the "hype", sit back and keep an eye out for the dyno and track results.....you won't be disappointed.
Tony Mamo
AFR Sales / Product Design Mgr.
(818)890-0616 Ext. 109
also, relating to marketing dates...
I will be doing so in the next few weeks....at that point in time we will also be able to take orders and provide more information on the new program....we are all pretty excited about it here.
And just to clarify, our reputation over the years has certainly been earned....you don't get one without earning it.
The new stuff about to be released will continue to cement and enforce that we are serious about staying on top and our goal is to provide you guys with a killer "bolt on" out of the box cylinder head.
More info coming soon...
Lastly, on LTx intakes...
Our 180 version will take the LT1 intake.....the street 195 (with the smaller entrance) could go either way, and the Comp 195 would be better suited to the larger LT4 intake, or a ported LT1 which I have heard some people actually prefer. Our larger versions to be offered down the road (in our new Eliminator line) would naturally accept the LT4 or ported LT1 intakes.
Last edited by LT4POWR; Jan 18, 2006 at 10:31 AM.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 326
From: northwest suburbs
Re: interesting news from AFR...
Wonder what the price points will be on these pieces. I have a set of the newer 180's prior to the redesign you are talking of and they are nice for a 180 head but it does sound like the new ones will be nice out of box heads since their last pieces really were not.
Banned
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 6,518
Re: interesting news from AFR...
This is what scares me...
In terms of port development I'm not really hearing what actually is going to help.
This is the old, high velocity big flow numbers make power. Screw any work that improves the flow of the fuel in the port, or how the port flows compared to how it runs on the motor. If they modled this program after the LS1 program, the heads might flow awesome at 28" but don't turn the bench up and see what they flow at higher depressions.
The small cross sectional area is dumb too, lets just make the heads worse in the areas where they are bad already. The smallest cross sectional area of a head should be at the venturi (right above the valve) but 23° stuff has issues with the bowls and with the pushrod pinch... seems like they are just making them worse here.
This is what I think is good.
Problem is now anyone who wants to put a set of these heads together from a high end head porter is now screwed with valve sizing... at least they could do a 5/16" valves. With the 8mm stuff you can't even open the guides up for them, with a 5/16 valve you could at least take them out to 8mm.
This is just another case where ego plays too big of a role at AFR... they make choices where you have to run their heads as they make them or you are pretty much screwed.
Maybe someone should tell them that they don't make LT4 intakes anymore.
All in all guys it's probably a better idea to stick with what you have and spend your money with a good head porter instead.
If you want to hear about how big flow numbers compare to good ports... especially in the AFR case then go read this.... http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1145
Those BBC AFR heads move wind like it's their job but get beat out in the power department to the lowly Edelbrock castings.
Bret
as well as a dramatic improvement in flow numbers, with the focus of the redesign concentrating on strong low and midlift flow, early "peak" numbers, and small cross sectional area.
23' head that is the most efficient piece we have ever tested when comparing flow numbers and cross sectional area (the goal being high airspeed without restricting volume).
23' head that is the most efficient piece we have ever tested when comparing flow numbers and cross sectional area (the goal being high airspeed without restricting volume).
This is the old, high velocity big flow numbers make power. Screw any work that improves the flow of the fuel in the port, or how the port flows compared to how it runs on the motor. If they modled this program after the LS1 program, the heads might flow awesome at 28" but don't turn the bench up and see what they flow at higher depressions.
The small cross sectional area is dumb too, lets just make the heads worse in the areas where they are bad already. The smallest cross sectional area of a head should be at the venturi (right above the valve) but 23° stuff has issues with the bowls and with the pushrod pinch... seems like they are just making them worse here.
This is what I think is good.
Other big news with this product is the switch to lighter 8 mm valves and lighter springs and retainers which have been proving themselves in the Gen III LS market for years. Valve float will be minimized and much higher RPM's will be able to be attained with both the lighter valvetrain components and of course complimented by the additional airflow the new designs will provide.
This is just another case where ego plays too big of a role at AFR... they make choices where you have to run their heads as they make them or you are pretty much screwed.
Our 180 version will take the LT1 intake.....the street 195 (with the smaller entrance) could go either way, and the Comp 195 would be better suited to the larger LT4 intake, or a ported LT1 which I have heard some people actually prefer. Our larger versions to be offered down the road (in our new Eliminator line) would naturally accept the LT4 or ported LT1 intakes.
All in all guys it's probably a better idea to stick with what you have and spend your money with a good head porter instead.
If you want to hear about how big flow numbers compare to good ports... especially in the AFR case then go read this.... http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1145
Those BBC AFR heads move wind like it's their job but get beat out in the power department to the lowly Edelbrock castings.
Bret
Last edited by SStrokerAce; Jan 18, 2006 at 08:34 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 326
From: northwest suburbs
Re: interesting news from AFR...
Thanks for your view point, well stated.
Besides the components of the heads changing for the better do you see much improvement left in the 23 degree head that a good traditional porter cannot get out of a nice casting.
Are we stuck with the flow numbers based mainly on placement of components within a 23 degree setup.
Besides the components of the heads changing for the better do you see much improvement left in the 23 degree head that a good traditional porter cannot get out of a nice casting.
Are we stuck with the flow numbers based mainly on placement of components within a 23 degree setup.
