A.I. 200cc trick flows.
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From: central NJ
A.I. 200cc trick flows.
has anyone used these heads on a stock block? and if so what cam would you reccomend using. also what ratio rockers, and what length pushrods? would i be setting my self up for failure, with this combo on a stock bottom end with 63,000 miles on it?
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Re: A.I. 200cc trick flows.
Originally Posted by irishz28
would i be setting my self up for failure, with this combo on a stock bottom end with 63,000 miles on it?
Yes. First of all, you'd lose a bunch of compression. Second, your cam wouldn't get the job done, and that's on a STOCK TrickFlow, let alone a ported one.
Having said that, if you do nothing more than a simple rebuild with flat-top pistons and whatever cam AI suggests, your engine will run like a raped ape.
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Re: A.I. 200cc trick flows.
[QUOTE=LameRandomName]Yes. First of all, you'd lose a bunch of compression. Second, your cam wouldn't get the job done, and that's on a STOCK TrickFlow, let alone a ported one.
explain to me exactly how im gunna loose compression. i am just trying to get some insight as to what heads and cam package i should go with, and im trying to do it with out spining my bearings. im eventually gunna be building a 383 up, but for now i want to pick out a package that will be good for what i have right now, and has room for improvement.
explain to me exactly how im gunna loose compression. i am just trying to get some insight as to what heads and cam package i should go with, and im trying to do it with out spining my bearings. im eventually gunna be building a 383 up, but for now i want to pick out a package that will be good for what i have right now, and has room for improvement.
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Re: A.I. 200cc trick flows.
[QUOTE=irishz28]
explain to me exactly how im gunna loose compression.
Unless the combustion chambers on the heads you're buying are the same size as the heads you already have on your engine, then you will lose compression.
Lets say though that I was hasty in that comment and your current combustion chambers are exactly the same size as the ones in the heads you want to buy...
Even in that circumstance the AI TrickFlows are too big for your cam. Even an absolutely stock set of TrickFlows are too big.
If you want to bolt on a set of heads that will give you a good boost on an otherwise stock short block, consider the Edelbrocks. While you're at it you can spec 1.6 rockers for them to cheat your cam "bigger".
Originally Posted by LameRandomName
explain to me exactly how im gunna loose compression.
Lets say though that I was hasty in that comment and your current combustion chambers are exactly the same size as the ones in the heads you want to buy...
Even in that circumstance the AI TrickFlows are too big for your cam. Even an absolutely stock set of TrickFlows are too big.
If you want to bolt on a set of heads that will give you a good boost on an otherwise stock short block, consider the Edelbrocks. While you're at it you can spec 1.6 rockers for them to cheat your cam "bigger".
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From: Costa Mesa, CA
Re: A.I. 200cc trick flows.
http://www.advancedinduction.com/AiP...TFSAFRLTx.html
I would recomment talking to A.I. instead of asking people on here, because you'll get some pretty screwy answers. Lose compression?? If you look in the link above it specifically says "Decked<head> to ensure flatness, surface finish & achieve desired chamber volume." Go a step further and add a thin headgasket like the Mr. Gasket one and I'm not really sure if compression ratio would be an issue. And what about cam not getting the job done? This package that I found on the A.I. website includes any CompCams custom grind.
The guy says he wants a 383 later and wants room for improvement. This setup would be perfect for him! The only major complaint I hear about the TFS heads is the compression ratio, but I said above how you can get around that. People that port heads seem to love these things- my local machine shop prefers the TFS LT1 heads over the AFR LT1 heads.
For now, get those heads, have them cut the chambers down and pick a headgasket to get your compression to an acceptable level. Let them get a cam for you that will peak at a relatively low RPM. Now when you get that 383 you've already got a nice set of heads to top it off with. Especially since it's been debated on here quite a few times whether or not stock castings can properly meet the airflow requirements of a 383.
I would recomment talking to A.I. instead of asking people on here, because you'll get some pretty screwy answers. Lose compression?? If you look in the link above it specifically says "Decked<head> to ensure flatness, surface finish & achieve desired chamber volume." Go a step further and add a thin headgasket like the Mr. Gasket one and I'm not really sure if compression ratio would be an issue. And what about cam not getting the job done? This package that I found on the A.I. website includes any CompCams custom grind.
The guy says he wants a 383 later and wants room for improvement. This setup would be perfect for him! The only major complaint I hear about the TFS heads is the compression ratio, but I said above how you can get around that. People that port heads seem to love these things- my local machine shop prefers the TFS LT1 heads over the AFR LT1 heads.
For now, get those heads, have them cut the chambers down and pick a headgasket to get your compression to an acceptable level. Let them get a cam for you that will peak at a relatively low RPM. Now when you get that 383 you've already got a nice set of heads to top it off with. Especially since it's been debated on here quite a few times whether or not stock castings can properly meet the airflow requirements of a 383.
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Re: A.I. 200cc trick flows.
Originally Posted by FastZinTennessee
http://www.advancedinduction.com/AiP...TFSAFRLTx.html
I would recomment talking to A.I. instead of asking people on here, because you'll get some pretty screwy answers.
I would recomment talking to A.I. instead of asking people on here, because you'll get some pretty screwy answers.
Like yours for instance.
As I said before...
EVEN IF the heads you have now and the heads you want to put on have the SAME SIZE combustion chambers and therefore wont cost you compression; those AI modded trick flows are TOO BIG for a stock cam. Even a bone stock set of trick flows are too big for the stock cam, never mind a ported set.
You want to check with AI or TF or Jesus Christ himself?
Go right ahead.
Or you can just bolt those heads onto your stock engine and learn for yourself.
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From: Louisiana, USA
Re: A.I. 200cc trick flows.
The guy wants to put a camshaft also with the heads if you read the first post. I currently have a set of LE ported Trickflows on my 355" LT1 and it runs very strong. I had the heads milled to keep the compression up and if I want to step up to a 383-396" shortblock I already have some killer heads that work great on my 355 also. JMO Later Clint
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Re: A.I. 200cc trick flows.
I remember about 10 years or so ago a guy on here got really excited and bought a set of expensive AFR castings put them on his stock shortblock , added a cam, then reported back to everyone that his qtr mile time was exactly the same and deemed the AFR heads junk. What he failed to divulge was that the AFRs he had bought had 72cc chambers.
He later realized the error.
He later realized the error.
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Re: A.I. 200cc trick flows.
The Trickflows only come with 62cc chambers so it's not that drastic of a compression drop. Most ported LT1 castings with big valves 2.05's have 56-58cc chambers already. I measured my old LT1 heads and came out with 58cc's so I angle milled .030 off my new Trickflows and came out to 58cc also so I lost no compression. The car is also quicker on motor w/o being tuned and is alot faster on n2o so the heads definately work well. Later
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From: Oklahoma where trees are made of wood.
Re: A.I. 200cc trick flows.
Originally Posted by T/A lt1
The Trickflows only come with 62cc chambers so it's not that drastic of a compression drop. Most ported LT1 castings with big valves 2.05's have 56-58cc chambers already. I measured my old LT1 heads and came out with 58cc's so I angle milled .030 off my new Trickflows and came out to 58cc also so I lost no compression. The car is also quicker on motor w/o being tuned and is alot faster on n2o so the heads definately work well. Later
Goto a compression calculator and change the chamber size by 4 to 6 cc and see how big a change it is.
a half a point of compression can be as much as 20 hp.
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Re: A.I. 200cc trick flows.
I have seen quite a few engines dynoed on my older brothers engine dyno and I would have to say it takes at least 1 full point to gain 15-18HP. The thing is as long as you have 10.5.1 then going to 11.1 won't pickup very much power, probably 8-10max. Even if you lost a little compression by going with some ported and milled Trickflows the HP gain you will get from having heads that flow 300cfm@600 will far outweigh the loss in compression. My car ran a best of 11.26@120mph last year after tuning on it for 6mos. and making alot of adjustments. Now this year after swapping heads, using the same cam, shortblock, headers, PCM tune, worse weather and being a few pounds heavier the car ran 11.15@121mph on it's second track outing. All I did was bump the fuel pressure way up to richen it up b/c it was way lean but then it was so rich that everyone thought I was spraying n2o and the tuneup was way off until I actually opened the bottle and ran 9.83@136mph. So I have back to back comparisons on the same engine, same car just different heads and a little less compression but the car is faster period how can you argue with that?
Last edited by T/A lt1; Feb 14, 2006 at 11:55 AM.
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Re: A.I. 200cc trick flows.
Originally Posted by LameRandomName
Like yours for instance.
As I said before...
EVEN IF the heads you have now and the heads you want to put on have the SAME SIZE combustion chambers and therefore wont cost you compression; those AI modded trick flows are TOO BIG for a stock cam. Even a bone stock set of trick flows are too big for the stock cam, never mind a ported set.
You want to check with AI or TF or Jesus Christ himself?
Go right ahead.
Or you can just bolt those heads onto your stock engine and learn for yourself.
As I said before...
EVEN IF the heads you have now and the heads you want to put on have the SAME SIZE combustion chambers and therefore wont cost you compression; those AI modded trick flows are TOO BIG for a stock cam. Even a bone stock set of trick flows are too big for the stock cam, never mind a ported set.
You want to check with AI or TF or Jesus Christ himself?
Go right ahead.
Or you can just bolt those heads onto your stock engine and learn for yourself.
1) He wants to add a cam with the heads
2) A.I. will deck the heads to get the combustion chamber (within reason) down to where it needs to be
So let me re-iterate. You can talk to A.I. who has developed this package and can make it fit your needs, or you can listen to people on this site who can't even read your post and answer it correctly.
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Re: A.I. 200cc trick flows.
Yeah, youre right a half a point wouldnt change it that much (like said 8 to 10 hp), But for instance using a stock piston on a 4.00 bore with a .040 (stock) head gasket you get a 9.74 compression with a 64 cc head and 10.44 with a 58 cc head. Thats having the piston at "0" deck.
So the Trickflow heads undecked would yeild around a 9.74 compression ratio with the stock head gasket. If you went with the Mr Gasket .026 thick head gasket it would raise you to 10.0 much closer to stock, this would probably yeild better than stock HP because of the head flow.
So the Trickflow heads undecked would yeild around a 9.74 compression ratio with the stock head gasket. If you went with the Mr Gasket .026 thick head gasket it would raise you to 10.0 much closer to stock, this would probably yeild better than stock HP because of the head flow.