heads and cam questions
08-30-2003, 10:46 PM
#1
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: ft.myers,florida
Posts: 78
heads and cam questions
ok heres what i was thinking of doing.tell me what u think.
i was thinking of getting the stock heads ported--u know the works bigger valves 3 angle valve job etc. then having them flow tested and getting a custom grind cam to the specs of the heads.
does this sound like a good plan or would i be better off with an off the shelf cam such as the cc306 or one of the xe cams??its going to be stock cubic inch with all the bolt ons in an automatic car with a converter (which is currently a 3000 but may go bigger depending on the cam i end up with)
basiclly i want this car to pull really hard in 3rd gear.i want to be trapping mid 1teens with some VERY low 12 or high elevan second timeslips.
btw--traction wont be an issue i just need to motor.
opinions please.............
i was thinking of getting the stock heads ported--u know the works bigger valves 3 angle valve job etc. then having them flow tested and getting a custom grind cam to the specs of the heads.
does this sound like a good plan or would i be better off with an off the shelf cam such as the cc306 or one of the xe cams??its going to be stock cubic inch with all the bolt ons in an automatic car with a converter (which is currently a 3000 but may go bigger depending on the cam i end up with)
basiclly i want this car to pull really hard in 3rd gear.i want to be trapping mid 1teens with some VERY low 12 or high elevan second timeslips.
btw--traction wont be an issue i just need to motor.
opinions please.............
08-30-2003, 10:53 PM
#2
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Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 786
Well.. err... you didn't really ask much, so I'm not sure what to tell ya 
.
Sure.. topend work, that's where the power is, go for it if you want to go fast. As far as camshaft stuff, people call anything that isnt a shelf cam a custom grind, & usually all theyre doing is picking lobes from a catalog. It doesnt cost any more in many cases... it's not something special IMO, it's just how things are done. That's not to say that a shelf cam wont serve you just fine though, it just depends on what you end up with & what youre trying to do
. As far as 306 vs. XE, well the XE series is a good bit more aggressive than the older series the 306 lobes come from & generally that's what you want if youre trying to make power. Of course there's nothing wrong with the older series like the 306 uses, theyre less aggressive & components will have an easier & longer life with them... so... again, it depends
The best advice I could give.. do a bunch of research, look at dyno #'s over flow numbers since thats what actually matters IMO, and if it comes down to more porting and cheap parts, or less porting & quality valvetrain components, go for the latter
.Sure.. topend work, that's where the power is, go for it if you want to go fast. As far as camshaft stuff, people call anything that isnt a shelf cam a custom grind, & usually all theyre doing is picking lobes from a catalog. It doesnt cost any more in many cases... it's not something special IMO, it's just how things are done. That's not to say that a shelf cam wont serve you just fine though, it just depends on what you end up with & what youre trying to do
. As far as 306 vs. XE, well the XE series is a good bit more aggressive than the older series the 306 lobes come from & generally that's what you want if youre trying to make power. Of course there's nothing wrong with the older series like the 306 uses, theyre less aggressive & components will have an easier & longer life with them... so... again, it depends The best advice I could give.. do a bunch of research, look at dyno #'s over flow numbers since thats what actually matters IMO, and if it comes down to more porting and cheap parts, or less porting & quality valvetrain components, go for the latter
08-30-2003, 11:00 PM
#3
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: ft.myers,florida
Posts: 78
im basicly trying to maximize the power output of stock lt1 components and am trying to figure out what the best way would be to go.obvioulsy the cam and valvetrain would be upgraded but i want to use stock heads and a stock bottom end. (with maybe the exception of better main caps and bolts etc. but rods, pistons, head castings etc.
im not to worried about it being radical because it wont be my daily driver.i just want it to run like a raped ape in top gear.
im not to worried about it being radical because it wont be my daily driver.i just want it to run like a raped ape in top gear.
09-03-2003, 07:31 PM
#4
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Location: ft.myers,florida
Posts: 78
ttt
what kind of a cam would be best for me with ported LT1 heads (stock castings) and a real mild stall??i have a 3000 now but its a non lock up and i dont really like it so im taking it out for like 2200 or a 2400 with a lock up.
would a hot cam put me at the mph im trying to acheive in the quarter mile??or like a comp xe cam??
what kind of a cam would be best for me with ported LT1 heads (stock castings) and a real mild stall??i have a 3000 now but its a non lock up and i dont really like it so im taking it out for like 2200 or a 2400 with a lock up.
would a hot cam put me at the mph im trying to acheive in the quarter mile??or like a comp xe cam??
09-03-2003, 09:04 PM
#8
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Lakeside
Posts: 103
if u get them ported maxed out, and the intake matched, u gotta go to someone who knows cams, and have them build u a real custom grind, and that might get u down there. if u cant break 11's then got some juise
09-03-2003, 09:47 PM
#9
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: BTR, Louisiana
Posts: 735
Kronos94Sleeper,
I fail to see any validity in your posts.
"u gotta go to someone who knows cams, and have them build u a real custom grind, and that might get u down there" -Kronos94Sleeper.
I guess you were saying get help with the cam selection. Hmm.....
That's what he's doing here. He already knew that, and [that] is the information he's looking for. He already knew he needed help.
Anyway, before I make another pointless post....
Yes, 11 second ET's are not out of your reach. Florida! That's in your favor right there. Your lower elevation will help out if that's where you plan to race.
There's a guy who posts here that has a somewhat lightened LT1 car with all of the bolt-ons. He has a 3600 stall converter, tubular k-member, and he is set up to drag race. He's running 11's and has the fastest "bolt-on only" LT1 in the country if I'm currect. He went 11.94 @ 111.5. Granted, this is 1.7:1 roller rockers too. He's doing this with the stock heads and the stock cam /1.5X1.7 lift. You can do it with probably a little more weight, but more flow and a better cam.
So, starting off make sure you have your suspension set up to race and if you're not driving the car everyday, perhaps you could do some lightening up a little bit. Every bit helps when .1 second matters.
The larger valves, enlarged intake runners, and cleaning up of your heads will be where most of your power comes from. I'd recommend exactly what you are saying LS1bait. Have the heads ported and look at your porter's results before you choose which cam to go with. Try and get a company that will work with you and your flow numbers and that have worked with LT1 cars before. You, hopefully, won't go wrong that way.
And if you have to pick your own grind there are people here to help you on that. Yes, you can sort of mix-and-match comp's lobes from their xtreme cams which is always cool.
Anyway, the heads and cams, assuming you have all of the bolt-ons you should be able to hit your mark.
You said traction isn't an issue. Hopefully, you're not running the 7.5" diff... if so you won't be for too long. I'd say concentrate on your 60' times with a good suspension, tires, converter, and gear ratio. The 3000 stall should do well as a start. Hit some 1.5 second 60' marks and you'll be on your way to the low ET you want.
As far as pulling hard in drive the race is almost over by that point so don't worry about drive too much. You'll be adding plenty power to make a change you'll like on the top end.
Comp can possibly help too. If you call them they have a tech line (back to cam selection). Some people have had poor luck with them. Infact, they told me they didn't need my flownumbers which was a real turn off from them... but maybe they were busy. ?
Even though the cc306 is getting 'older' and we have better lobes now, don't rule it out. You still hear about because it was a very successful cam. Pay attention to the variance in intake duration and exhaust duration on it -way more exhaust than intake. Like you were saying flow numbers really help, but the cc306 might be a good reference starting point. It did well with the LT1's less than ideal exhuast port. You could pick out some extreme lobes that have similar duration @ .050" lift and just benefit from their increased ramp rates if you have no where to start from. Your ports will come out better than the factory's sand cast port, but still won't be killer. So, look at what's worked in the past. Look at other people's flow numbers, cams, and ET's and go from there.
Good luck. There are people here who can certainly help you. Hopefully, some will chime in.
You should be able to hit elevens without much sweat. :-)
Ben T.
I fail to see any validity in your posts.
"u gotta go to someone who knows cams, and have them build u a real custom grind, and that might get u down there" -Kronos94Sleeper.
I guess you were saying get help with the cam selection. Hmm.....
That's what he's doing here. He already knew that, and [that] is the information he's looking for. He already knew he needed help.
Anyway, before I make another pointless post....
Yes, 11 second ET's are not out of your reach. Florida! That's in your favor right there. Your lower elevation will help out if that's where you plan to race.
There's a guy who posts here that has a somewhat lightened LT1 car with all of the bolt-ons. He has a 3600 stall converter, tubular k-member, and he is set up to drag race. He's running 11's and has the fastest "bolt-on only" LT1 in the country if I'm currect. He went 11.94 @ 111.5. Granted, this is 1.7:1 roller rockers too. He's doing this with the stock heads and the stock cam /1.5X1.7 lift. You can do it with probably a little more weight, but more flow and a better cam.
So, starting off make sure you have your suspension set up to race and if you're not driving the car everyday, perhaps you could do some lightening up a little bit. Every bit helps when .1 second matters.
The larger valves, enlarged intake runners, and cleaning up of your heads will be where most of your power comes from. I'd recommend exactly what you are saying LS1bait. Have the heads ported and look at your porter's results before you choose which cam to go with. Try and get a company that will work with you and your flow numbers and that have worked with LT1 cars before. You, hopefully, won't go wrong that way.
And if you have to pick your own grind there are people here to help you on that. Yes, you can sort of mix-and-match comp's lobes from their xtreme cams which is always cool.
Anyway, the heads and cams, assuming you have all of the bolt-ons you should be able to hit your mark.
You said traction isn't an issue. Hopefully, you're not running the 7.5" diff... if so you won't be for too long. I'd say concentrate on your 60' times with a good suspension, tires, converter, and gear ratio. The 3000 stall should do well as a start. Hit some 1.5 second 60' marks and you'll be on your way to the low ET you want.
As far as pulling hard in drive the race is almost over by that point so don't worry about drive too much. You'll be adding plenty power to make a change you'll like on the top end.
Comp can possibly help too. If you call them they have a tech line (back to cam selection). Some people have had poor luck with them. Infact, they told me they didn't need my flownumbers which was a real turn off from them... but maybe they were busy. ?
Even though the cc306 is getting 'older' and we have better lobes now, don't rule it out. You still hear about because it was a very successful cam. Pay attention to the variance in intake duration and exhaust duration on it -way more exhaust than intake. Like you were saying flow numbers really help, but the cc306 might be a good reference starting point. It did well with the LT1's less than ideal exhuast port. You could pick out some extreme lobes that have similar duration @ .050" lift and just benefit from their increased ramp rates if you have no where to start from. Your ports will come out better than the factory's sand cast port, but still won't be killer. So, look at what's worked in the past. Look at other people's flow numbers, cams, and ET's and go from there.
Good luck. There are people here who can certainly help you. Hopefully, some will chime in.
You should be able to hit elevens without much sweat. :-)
Ben T.
09-03-2003, 10:54 PM
#10
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: ft.myers,florida
Posts: 78
thanx for the help guys.r u talking about bill plummer running 11's? the trans am that was in gm high tech?? if so thats a little more weight reduction then ill prob be comfortable with.the car will get driven alot just because i love driving the car.i will have another car but i still want to keep my ac and power steering etc.maybe take out the bumper supports and back seat and some light weight carpet but not much more.right now traction on the track is no where near an issue with the minmal power im making.im sure it will become more difficult with the added power but i will be adding some suspension at that point.
i dont want to go too high on compression because i want to put a power adder most likely nitrous once i get used to that set up.i was actually thinking of dropping it a little with an impala head gasket.but for now im looking for a strong na stock cubic inch car that at some point i couls strap a mild power adder onto.
i have all the bolt ons now from induction to pulleys everything.i will be swapping my shorty headers for long tubes when i do the motor.and possibly a #30 injector beings mine are pretty old.but that wont be til i get it on a dyno and see how much if any more fuel i will need in the motor.
thanx again guys keep the replys coming
i dont want to go too high on compression because i want to put a power adder most likely nitrous once i get used to that set up.i was actually thinking of dropping it a little with an impala head gasket.but for now im looking for a strong na stock cubic inch car that at some point i couls strap a mild power adder onto.
i have all the bolt ons now from induction to pulleys everything.i will be swapping my shorty headers for long tubes when i do the motor.and possibly a #30 injector beings mine are pretty old.but that wont be til i get it on a dyno and see how much if any more fuel i will need in the motor.
thanx again guys keep the replys coming
09-03-2003, 11:35 PM
#11
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Waynesboro, PA
Posts: 4,827
11's is easily doable. I'll be there once I get a 12 bolt, and I'm not making an extriodinary amount of power. Look in the sig link for dyno sheet.
Get the stock heads ported, the intake port matched, and you don't really need a custom ground cam as an off the shelf grind will work, but a custom grind probably would work a little better.
For the money, stock ported heads can't be beat.
Get the stock heads ported, the intake port matched, and you don't really need a custom ground cam as an off the shelf grind will work, but a custom grind probably would work a little better.
For the money, stock ported heads can't be beat.
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