Yeah, you obviously have a sweet spot between .400 and .500. I would guess it's the raised runners... But for the exhaust, it's hard to say. Maybe it's the castings... To achieve the flow numbers on the exhaust I know they had to do quite a bit of welding. So maybe there is more room to work with on the 227's exhaust wise, albiet your better exhaust numbers. Who knows...

As for the intake, yeah, I'm starting at the School of Automotive Machinist next month... So I'm HOPING they have an account with Hogans so I can get a deal We'll see.... It would definitly be nice over the LT4 intake!

So what's the scoop on your car? When you gonna get that beast on the road? My brother blew the apex seals in his fd3 a few weeks ago. So maybe your numbers would inspire him to put a real motor in that car (but probably not, you know how those diehard RX7 owners are)

Take care,
Chuck

 

Eeuuhh... Haven't read all the posts, but my suggestion, for whatever you spent, spend another $30-50 and have that checked.

20cfm from .050 lift increase that late? Sb2.2's dont do that, something is up.

Compared to a well ported LT1, yours are a little behind up to .500, after that they take off.. but again, sb2's dont take off that well, and 210's usually end up doing 31X, and thats with a large valve. Have it checked .

 

I'm not sure I follow what you are saying... ? You don't seem to believe the numbers produced for some reason. But I don't see what you don't believe.... Do you not believe that they're so good, or do you not believe that they're so bad? And what are sb2.2's?


Later
Chuck

 

Flow increases are not that linear, it just doesnt work like that. Sb2.2's are about the baddest SBC head you can get ahold of, and regularly peak in the 390's (after QUITE a few hours)... we generally make around 7XXhp NA with them on 5liter shortblocks. What you have is just a 23deg casting, and I'm simply suggesting that you flow them locally and watch.. it'll likely be worth the money.

 

He has a problem with them because they weren't ported by him.

 

Of course, someone else already has his money, I obviously gain something from this LOL.

The truth is a mother, and you guys get raked by just about everyone. Half the time, the only people who are quick to "help" in this forum are usually the least qualified and just spew garbage advice some other know nothing knowitall told them. And people wonder why the experienced people don't bother with helping out much anymore

It's advice from someone who does this every day and halfway understands the laws of physics. Take it, don't take it, doesn't matter.

-Phil

 

Argh, people, if you can't get along just leave my post's alone. I am not one to put up with the useless, AROGANT, bickering. If you doubt the numbers, then woo hoo. I know the truth and that's all that really matters to me. Of course you gain nothing from all this, except for wandering how in the world they did it. I agree it is rare to see this size head performing this well... but, that is the entire reason I entrusted Race Prep to do the work on my heads. Because, out of EVERYONE I know of and talked to in the business, they were the ones that stuck out to me who actually seemed to KNOW what they were talking about, and had the means to back it up. Look them up, check out their references....

Trust me, you will not get my business and respect by being proud.


Later
Chuck

 

Phil,

You haven't seen these particular set of heads, you haven't flowed these particular set of heads....but you're already making some pretty strong assumptions to the validity of the numbers. And this is hardly the first time from you. Could it be that there a few guys out there that know a bit more than you do about head porting? And that you are so full of yourself, you don't even realize it?

I personally know the guy who ported these heads, and I've watched them MANY times flow heads, and can assure you that the numbers are not falsified in any way. I'm so confident about the accuracy of the numbers, I'd be willing to make a deal with you. If you can somehow prove that the numbers aren't as stated, I'll go quietly...and quit posting here. If the numbers are there though, then you shove off and go peddle your egotistical attitude somewhere else.

 

Honesty is arrogance I suppose. Did I say he was lied to? No, testing methods vary etc., but between myself, my partner, and others we associate with.. I think we've seen more heads than most. Considering the fact that most of the people I work with don't even waste time on the public and are leading the fields in those races you see on speedvision, we probably know enough to tell when something is slightly odd about something so simple.

We'll just ask Judson and Greg/Keith down in TX if we need to know about their students thanks.

You're absolutely right, I haven't seen them, but I know what they are and what they are capable of. Arrogant or not, that means more than an end user saying they have to flow what is claimed considering they arent even in their possession yet. Should they be checked? Yep. Not for me, I don't care what they do, like someone else said once.. get mad all you want and say what you will, but there's enough work for everyone out there. It's honest advice, so sorry that so often it isnt what people want to hear.

 

FWIW, IMHO, Race Prep is the best machinist/porter in SoCal. And there more shops out here than left wing nuts, lesbians, and washed up Hollywood crackwhores combined

Just a brief list of credentials:

- Run by two fellas that finished in the top of their class at S.A.M, not some jokers w/o any formal training that comprise 90% of the shops out there
- Build professional competition motors. In fact, they had a 16:1 compression 1000HP Pro Stock motor sitting on a stand last time I was there. Not too shabby for a 5xx cube n/a motor
- Have worked closely with Ed Pink at Ed Pink Racing Engines. You know, the guy that builds IRL motors
- Just about every Sunnen machine out there.
- They've been known to actually turn down potential business from these dime-a-dozen "farm out" operations that need machine work. Why? Based on their requests, they feel some shops are destined to botch a motor and don't want to be associated with that sort of thing. You know, like calling up an saying, "yeah, just bore that sucker .030" over" without even having the pistons present to mic out.
- Their latest LS1 heads/cam cars put down close to 470 RWHP while remaing very drivable. And yes, those numbers are from independent dynos, not their own

Phil,

We all know you know your stuff. I defer to your superior understanding of engine design, and especially cylinder head dynamics

However, I'll have to adamately disagree with anyone that groups Race Prep with Billy Bob's Machining that pull flow numbers out of their asses.

Hate to play Mr. Prophet, but Chuck's are will post the dyno and track numbers to back up those flow charts. Not claiming to be psychic, but I have yet to witness any underperformer running Race Prep parts

But as always, your opinion is appreicated A different perspective on things never hurts

 

Hey, like I said, I wasnt doubting their credentials or work, just stating that this stuff isnt magical. People have been going at SBC stuff forever and a day, and there's only so much one can do. 500cid? Okay, but it can be done with over 100cid less... been there, besides, the top PS guys are way over 1k. Nice that the latest LS1 stuff is around 470.. been there for quite awhile as well, with smallish HR's. Not to race dynos and whatnot though.

Like I said, best of luck to you. I hope it works out, you can make 600hp on 300-310cfm all day long. But as a guy who's a consumer, I don't see the harm in suggesting something like that is checked. Our stuff has been gone through by other shops and put on flow benches, it doesnt hurt my feelings too much. People are oversensitive methinks .

 

Don't I.

We're still waiting on the front cover and cam sprocket. Mark had vacation time screwed up because the parts weren't delivered by the time promised, and here we are nearly a month later, and he still doesn't have the parts. We've talked a couple times about just scrapping all the work, buying a new front cover and Cloyes billet double roller, and welding the front holes (cam and water pump drive openings) closed and using a rear cam synch stub (he finally received a unit from MSD, literally months after they were advertising availability in the magazines) and call it good. So far, we just haven't made that call (which would mean scrapping ~$500-600 in parts and labor), so I'm still waiting on the engine, among other things. You don't even want to hear about my other troubles with vendors.

Suffice it to say that I'm making pretty good progress on a few other sub-projects, so there is still a possibility that the car will see the road before summer. A slight possibility.

 

Cool, that's pretty exciting Can't wait to see how she does!

Later
Chuck

 

I'm still waiting to find out what kind of power the engine makes without a big ignition hiccup through the peak power zone. Almost a year later...

 

You know it. I am rarely on the boards anymore just to browse, but I have yet to miss an update on the progress of my car! You WILL find out how this setup performs. But as I can tell now, the response will more than likely be, "Oh woo hoo, been there done that... why don't you proove you did it?" . Seems I've become the 20 year old pee on around here... but I don't really care. I know what I believe and enjoy what I do. It's just a hobby. I'm not out here to break any records or make any money. Just having fun building up my 4th gen. Can't hardly blame a guy for that eih?

Oh, and I always like a good ol, "Oh, I can do that too" response. It reminds me of kindergarten.


Later
Chuck