descreening maf
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,937
From: Ft. Worth, TX
Re: descreening maf
Sure, the ECM will learn until the BLMs are pegged then it it can't compensate. But sure, take it out and see what happens, if it don't run good put it back in. Mostly likely some tip in stumble occassionly at different loads/rpms because the BLMs will be all over the place in certain rpm/load combinations instead of steady at the same rpm/load like they should be with the screen in.There won't be any gains by removing it either.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,188
From: Western New York
Re: descreening maf
Originally Posted by SnakeSkinner28
I actually noticed a small increase on my car when i did it, granted it was totally stock at the time. All it takes is 5 minutes, therefore anything is worth 5 minutes.
im just kiddin. Im just going by what documented though. Theres no dyno proof, therefore i dont believe it. And also, no dyno proof of larger mafs in stock or close to stock lt1s/ls1s creating HP gains, so i cant fathom how removing the screen will do anything either.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 376
From: VA
Re: descreening maf
Originally Posted by sabre81
nooo wayy im just kiddin. Im just going by what documented though. Theres no dyno proof, therefore i dont believe it. And also, no dyno proof of larger mafs in stock or close to stock lt1s/ls1s creating HP gains, so i cant fathom how removing the screen will do anything either.
im just kiddin. Im just going by what documented though. Theres no dyno proof, therefore i dont believe it. And also, no dyno proof of larger mafs in stock or close to stock lt1s/ls1s creating HP gains, so i cant fathom how removing the screen will do anything either.Last edited by SnakeSkinner28; Dec 7, 2004 at 02:39 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,768
From: Friendswood, TX, USA
Re: descreening maf
Every time this subject comes up the same people respond with the same statements, and without any appearent scientific knowege or any real understanding of what is going on. They all seem to be just repeating what someone else has said or what they've heard somewhere. So lets look at this objectively and with a mind on the science behind it all.
Someone said that the sceen is there to reduce the incoming air turbulence. The screen I removed from my MAF was a round wire mesh screen. And any aerodynamicist will tell you the last thing you would use to reduce turbulance is a round wire. The only shape that creates more turbulance than a round wire is a flat plate. If you wanted to reduce the turbulance, a very thin vane or vanes would work far better. And in fact I have seen some of these with honeycomb foil screens, which on the surface would lend credence to this idea. However you have to ask yourself, "how much turbulance are we really talking about". The air flow into this meter is though a smooth tube with the only turbulance creating parts(the rubber bellows) after the meter, except for the screen of course. Another person said that it's there to evenly distribute the air flow. Well the screen with all the turbulence it creates would certainly accomplish that goal, if it were required. But again if you look at the system, where you have air being pulled through a smooth 4 or 5 inch tube at 3 to 6 hundred cfm. To be uneven the mass of air would have to be higher on one side of the tube compared to the other side. I doubt that this would be a demonstratable problem. So unless y'all can come up with something better than this, I'll continue to believe the screen is there to protect a very thin and delecate wire from some foriegn object damage.
The other camp, saids it will destroy the calibration or the computer will relearn and readjust for the extra flow. This meter simply reads the mass of the air that crosses the wire. The calibration is set by producing a set voltage for a set cfm. So how would increasing the amount of flow in any way harm the meter. It doesn't "care" if there is a screen in front of the wire or not. As for the computer its job is to maintain a set A/F mix across a set of parameters. By saying that it relearns, your really saying that it somehow knows THIS increase does not require a corresponding increase in fuel to maintain the correct A/F mix. So it is reducing the power, as if it's job was to keep the engine at a specific HP level no matter what mods where done to it. I think you can see the absurdity in this idea if we carry it out to it's logical conclusion.
The fact is that any increase in air flow has to garner and equal increase in power, within the system abilities to measure it, which this is.
I believe the problem is simply that this is just to small a difference to be observable. And that because the meter is so delecate many people damage it and so end up with a negative result.
Someone said that the sceen is there to reduce the incoming air turbulence. The screen I removed from my MAF was a round wire mesh screen. And any aerodynamicist will tell you the last thing you would use to reduce turbulance is a round wire. The only shape that creates more turbulance than a round wire is a flat plate. If you wanted to reduce the turbulance, a very thin vane or vanes would work far better. And in fact I have seen some of these with honeycomb foil screens, which on the surface would lend credence to this idea. However you have to ask yourself, "how much turbulance are we really talking about". The air flow into this meter is though a smooth tube with the only turbulance creating parts(the rubber bellows) after the meter, except for the screen of course. Another person said that it's there to evenly distribute the air flow. Well the screen with all the turbulence it creates would certainly accomplish that goal, if it were required. But again if you look at the system, where you have air being pulled through a smooth 4 or 5 inch tube at 3 to 6 hundred cfm. To be uneven the mass of air would have to be higher on one side of the tube compared to the other side. I doubt that this would be a demonstratable problem. So unless y'all can come up with something better than this, I'll continue to believe the screen is there to protect a very thin and delecate wire from some foriegn object damage.
The other camp, saids it will destroy the calibration or the computer will relearn and readjust for the extra flow. This meter simply reads the mass of the air that crosses the wire. The calibration is set by producing a set voltage for a set cfm. So how would increasing the amount of flow in any way harm the meter. It doesn't "care" if there is a screen in front of the wire or not. As for the computer its job is to maintain a set A/F mix across a set of parameters. By saying that it relearns, your really saying that it somehow knows THIS increase does not require a corresponding increase in fuel to maintain the correct A/F mix. So it is reducing the power, as if it's job was to keep the engine at a specific HP level no matter what mods where done to it. I think you can see the absurdity in this idea if we carry it out to it's logical conclusion.
The fact is that any increase in air flow has to garner and equal increase in power, within the system abilities to measure it, which this is.
I believe the problem is simply that this is just to small a difference to be observable. And that because the meter is so delecate many people damage it and so end up with a negative result.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,515
From: Kansas
Re: descreening maf
^cliff notes?
The MAF isnt a place to go looking for an extra 2hp. It is engineered with the screen for a good purpose. Removing it shouldnt give you an SOTP feel unless you accidently break the small elements in the process.
The MAF isnt a place to go looking for an extra 2hp. It is engineered with the screen for a good purpose. Removing it shouldnt give you an SOTP feel unless you accidently break the small elements in the process.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 655
Re: descreening maf
Originally Posted by SnakeSkinner28
That would be the dictionary definition of what a MAF sensor would do if there ever was one. The computer will relearn a small increase in air flow on its own. This is being made a much bigger deal then it needs to be, take the f ing screen off, its not going to hurt a damn thing. Thats about as blunt an answer as i can think to give.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,388
From: SE Michigan
Re: descreening maf
Thanks for all the informative responses. Especially Z28sor, i like those really long posts that fully explain things. I am gonna take it off and see how things go.
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,577
From: DeKalb, IL
Re: descreening maf
If it was *MY* car, I would leave it alone. The MAS is a very sensitive device and messing with it is not a good idea in my opinion. It flows more than enough for what you have.
It's your car and your decision but if you do decide to modify it, at least don't port it.
It's your car and your decision but if you do decide to modify it, at least don't port it.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 27,727
From: Little Rock, AR
Re: descreening maf
Originally Posted by Z28SORR
Every time this subject comes up the same people respond with the same statements, and without any appearent scientific knowege or any real understanding of what is going on. They all seem to be just repeating what someone else has said or what they've heard somewhere. So lets look at this objectively and with a mind on the science behind it all.
Someone said that the sceen is there to reduce the incoming air turbulence. The screen I removed from my MAF was a round wire mesh screen. And any aerodynamicist will tell you the last thing you would use to reduce turbulance is a round wire. The only shape that creates more turbulance than a round wire is a flat plate. If you wanted to reduce the turbulance, a very thin vane or vanes would work far better. And in fact I have seen some of these with honeycomb foil screens, which on the surface would lend credence to this idea. However you have to ask yourself, "how much turbulance are we really talking about". The air flow into this meter is though a smooth tube with the only turbulance creating parts(the rubber bellows) after the meter, except for the screen of course. Another person said that it's there to evenly distribute the air flow. Well the screen with all the turbulence it creates would certainly accomplish that goal, if it were required. But again if you look at the system, where you have air being pulled through a smooth 4 or 5 inch tube at 3 to 6 hundred cfm. To be uneven the mass of air would have to be higher on one side of the tube compared to the other side. I doubt that this would be a demonstratable problem. So unless y'all can come up with something better than this, I'll continue to believe the screen is there to protect a very thin and delecate wire from some foriegn object damage.
The other camp, saids it will destroy the calibration or the computer will relearn and readjust for the extra flow. This meter simply reads the mass of the air that crosses the wire. The calibration is set by producing a set voltage for a set cfm. So how would increasing the amount of flow in any way harm the meter. It doesn't "care" if there is a screen in front of the wire or not. As for the computer its job is to maintain a set A/F mix across a set of parameters. By saying that it relearns, your really saying that it somehow knows THIS increase does not require a corresponding increase in fuel to maintain the correct A/F mix. So it is reducing the power, as if it's job was to keep the engine at a specific HP level no matter what mods where done to it. I think you can see the absurdity in this idea if we carry it out to it's logical conclusion.
The fact is that any increase in air flow has to garner and equal increase in power, within the system abilities to measure it, which this is.
I believe the problem is simply that this is just to small a difference to be observable. And that because the meter is so delecate many people damage it and so end up with a negative result.
Someone said that the sceen is there to reduce the incoming air turbulence. The screen I removed from my MAF was a round wire mesh screen. And any aerodynamicist will tell you the last thing you would use to reduce turbulance is a round wire. The only shape that creates more turbulance than a round wire is a flat plate. If you wanted to reduce the turbulance, a very thin vane or vanes would work far better. And in fact I have seen some of these with honeycomb foil screens, which on the surface would lend credence to this idea. However you have to ask yourself, "how much turbulance are we really talking about". The air flow into this meter is though a smooth tube with the only turbulance creating parts(the rubber bellows) after the meter, except for the screen of course. Another person said that it's there to evenly distribute the air flow. Well the screen with all the turbulence it creates would certainly accomplish that goal, if it were required. But again if you look at the system, where you have air being pulled through a smooth 4 or 5 inch tube at 3 to 6 hundred cfm. To be uneven the mass of air would have to be higher on one side of the tube compared to the other side. I doubt that this would be a demonstratable problem. So unless y'all can come up with something better than this, I'll continue to believe the screen is there to protect a very thin and delecate wire from some foriegn object damage.
The other camp, saids it will destroy the calibration or the computer will relearn and readjust for the extra flow. This meter simply reads the mass of the air that crosses the wire. The calibration is set by producing a set voltage for a set cfm. So how would increasing the amount of flow in any way harm the meter. It doesn't "care" if there is a screen in front of the wire or not. As for the computer its job is to maintain a set A/F mix across a set of parameters. By saying that it relearns, your really saying that it somehow knows THIS increase does not require a corresponding increase in fuel to maintain the correct A/F mix. So it is reducing the power, as if it's job was to keep the engine at a specific HP level no matter what mods where done to it. I think you can see the absurdity in this idea if we carry it out to it's logical conclusion.
The fact is that any increase in air flow has to garner and equal increase in power, within the system abilities to measure it, which this is.
I believe the problem is simply that this is just to small a difference to be observable. And that because the meter is so delecate many people damage it and so end up with a negative result.
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 552
From: G-burg, MD
Re: descreening maf
I'd leave it in. I took mine off for a while and did feel a bit difference in driving. After some searching i decided to check out the MAF, was covered with a thin layer of road crap. I took some electirc parts cleaner and sprayed teh stuff off and the car felt smoother.
Leave it in, it's there for a reason.
Leave it in, it's there for a reason.