Thanks, Doc.

 

Holy ****!!! Mr. Horsepower has resurfaced

 

Then a reply from Mister Horsepower...."They are minor points and in my opinion are almost as useless as knowing the @.050 duration figures."

Hmmm... I'm gonna keep this quote for future use/reference. I've a tough time accepting, you really wanted/intended to post this statement. BTW Mister Horsepower, do you subscribe to, or endorse any of the DCR calcs on the net?

EDIT 08-19-05: Fair enuf. I will hereby, from this point on, address you Chuck, as (Mr.) Huckleberry. I can be very accommodating.

 

damn three pages from my question....and refering to one reply i am goign to use the grind of the ASA cam for my car...but now have deciede to go a differnt route..im gonna go a 224 236 on a 510 530 lift with a 110 LSA..oon stock heads for now...think i will see good results?...

 

Picking a duration is the easy part, though I question your use of a cam with such a spread of duration from intake to exhaust. The more difficult part is determining a good compromise of the critical valve events in relation to the crank, either via advancing or retarding of the cam. Critical? I understand 'Mr. Huckleberry' would have you believe the valve events don't really matter, but try moving the events around (without changing duration of course) and see if the character of the cam, or the performance of the entire engine doesn't change. With the LCA (LSA) already determined by you, overlap has been set, but where the valve events that determine the overlap are set, will also affect the performance. Not rocket science, but it is about the details. I'll let the cam gurus help you out with the above.

 

That's not far off the "226/236 @ .050, .525/.525 (with 1.7 RR) on a 110" quoted earlier. As to whether you'll see good results, it depends on what you want.

IMO (which is never humble) you need to discuss your needs and desires for your car with an engine/cam designer. Can you live with the same or less torque below say 3500 to pick up torque/power in the high 5s to mid 6s? How high will you rev? Will this be a "cam only" change or will you spring for the parts necessary to make it work at higher rpms? Are you going to do headers and more gear, or does it need to wiork with the 3.23s?

Those are a few of the questions you need to answer. If you don't, and just pick a cam, my prediction is that you will be disappointed. You've been around her a few months, but I suggest you look back over the last year or so. The search function is very useful if you know what words or names to search on. A couple of them have popped up in this thread.

Remember that while a cam may be considered the "brain" of the mechanical parts of the engine, it needs all the right "body parts" or you could end up with Dr. Frankenstein's monster.

Good luck.

 

to answer the customers original question.

there is not one perfect cam for everyone. Even before you start matching the cam to the heads, etc, you need to talk about gear, stall, weight, shift point, what kinda idle you want or can tolerate, emissions constraints, budget for valve trane parts, etc, etc, etc.

The cam that makes the most 'peak" HP is not always the best choice. Making sure the car accelerates well has more to do with the TQ curve and how it works with the gear, stall and weight.

Your best bet would be to call and talk to someone that can design a cam for you. You are not gonna get the best onfo for free on this forum or any forum. You can contact some of the supporting vendors like Combination Motor Sports, Advanced Induction or Elliotts Portworks about a cam and they can help you out and get you something you will be happy with.

Lloyd Elliott
972-617-5671
Eportworks.com

 

one i have jet hot lt's and i do plan on gettting some 3.73 and in the winter porting my stock heads and gettign a convertor. I have used the search buton a lot too and found all difefernt kinds of cams and havedecided to gfo with the one i mentioned. i have read some people like a differene in the lift ie..an 20 difference...i am plannign on going with some 1.6 RR's as well... this cam is only going to be the beggning of the buildup of my car this winter. ...if that clarifyires anythign better....am i still looking at the wrong cam in your opinion

 

And that is damn unfortunate, isn't it? But, it is also reality. As it allows an avenue for someone (entrepreneur) by which to make an honest buck, makes it not unreasonable, to sell such a service.

Picking the correct cam (or rather the correct cam timing) for the application, is not a 'black art', nor is it, as I stated earlier, 'rocket science', as some opportunistic, arrogant, chest pounding joker may lead you to believe. It DOES involve dedicated and time consuming homework, to master however. Also, that 'homework' and understanding required, is not for everyone, regardless of one's intellect. It is not unreasonable to conclude, that for a meager sum, resulting from a modest profit margin, it is a viable and reasonable alternative, paying for the personal service. IOW, 'for a few dollars more', you may be better off, seeking out a reputable source, letting them make the lobe spec decisions, and purchase a cam through them. Funny thing though, your purchase will STILL be a compromise. What you are after, is as good a compromise as possible.

Edited for clarity.

 

Arnie, if you are really offended by Chuck (Mr. Horsepower) you need to get your head examined. I would really love to have him around more, but comments like this would make me leave..... too bad too since the man has more R&D work into engines than anyone else on the site.

OTOH I do agree that while cam selection is not black magic and rocket science it's not something you can just do if you have no idea where to start. Most people think the cams are just numbers and x means y so I can get w.... too bad it doesn't work this way, which I think is Chucks point, to show it's a lot more complex than the world leads on.... That's why there are people who specialize in it.

Bret

 

Responses in order....

Not offended, just despise arrogance. I could care less, how expensive the cloth is, that makes his (or anyone else's) clothes. Too bad... when great knowledge comes, that wisdom does not follow along.... and I wouldn't expect you to understand what I just tapped on the keyboard......

Thot I just stated that. Maybe you didn't underestand the wording. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and accept it as another way of stating the same thing.

So Bret, now you are his spokesman? I think he did a fine enuf job of putting his foot in his mouth, on his own.


"They are minor points and in my opinion are almost as useless as knowing the @.050 duration figures."

I can get great mileage out of that one... When O/C points are no longer important, you let me know, huh? Understanding mach whatever, is of little concern, if these points (and their results) are not understood. So the 'mach index' is important, as that is tied to the O/C events. Maybe you didn't understand the first base to second, explanation. You probably didn't see the relevance of that. It is all about a learning curve. You don't attempt college level calculus before mastering addition/substraction first..... THAT is what my original correction to Jon's response was about. Getting past this 'kneejerk byproduct' LCA/LSA mindset, onto valve events. Attempting to teach this group to master that much of it first.

Edited bottom for clarity and abrasiveness reasons.

 

With those mods in mind, you might look at a head/cam package from Lloyd Elliott.

www.eportworks.com

You'll have a matched package which should do just what you want. See the website for power you might expect to get with the different packages. Be advised that there is no free lunch with increasing power. You aren't going to get emissions-legal LE3 with a no-lump idle, but most folks going for that kind of power don't mind...or even relish the lump.

As to "right" or "wrong" cam, the choice of valve events, and therefore camshaft, should come after everything else is specified, including how you want the car to drive and run. Choosing a cam without all the other information is like a doctor prescribing a medication before he knows what's wrong with the patient. The ethical ones won't do that. The quacks might. Sometimes they could luck into the correct medicine, and more times they might harm the patient. Self medicating is even more chancy. My opinion is that you should get advice from an ethical cam person, or buy a package that has been proved to work.

FWIW, if you decided to go with something like Lloyd's LE1 package, you might be able to do the cam first with your stock heads, headers and gears, and still get reasonable performance. You could add the heads later. Check with Lloyd on this.

Maverick's Ol' Pappy said it well: "Ya' don't always get what ya' pay for, but ya' hardly ever get what you DON'T pay for."

Wise man was Pappy.

 

So this is what I find when I search for "wiggy".

Welcome back Chuck, it's good to see that you're still alive.

Arnie, I have to question your motives at times. You act like a man who has something to prove and you're willing to fight with just about anyone to do it. You're problems are many I'm sure... not the least of which is your desire to micro-analyze everything that is said. You pull things out of context and you make "corrections", yet you never ask anyone to clarify a point they're trying to get across... which is just plain ol' disrespect on your part.

Now you're just being stupid. You've been here longer than I have and I'm sure you remember reading many of Chuck's post? When did he ever attempt to come across as some ego maniac?
I don't know how many threads I've read where Chuck would post, saying something that'd really get your mind reeling, then come back later to spill more details than you probably wanted to know. So do we judge the author of the response or do we judge the response?

My interpretation of Chuck's post:

The valve events are products of other more important phenomonon and if you'd like to talk on it more... I'm your man (huckleberry).

The quote from above..... that's as far as you should have taken this. Don't like "wiggy"? Try belligerent. You're starting to wear it well, which is a shame cause you're a good guy.

-Mindgame

 

Hi MG... and you are obviosly, not alone.
"out of context"... I question your understanding of that phrase. My quote was WORD FOR WORD, no skipped words, or missing phrases. I consider taking quotes 'out of context' (as it truely means) cheap shots. You may care to reevaluate your definition of that phrase, MG.

BTW, others (and you here) have commented about my editing. I prefer to be as meticulous as possible with my punctuation, spelling and grammer. If I can better clarify any given post in this fashion, I do so. It is not done to change the flair or flavor of the content. (This was an edit, BTW.) Hope it helped.

Believe it or not, I hesitated and thot about (as I normally do) what I was about to post before 'clicking' 'enter'. So, I would like to believe I THINK BEFORE POSTING. Did I expect each and every one here, to pat me on the back for my reasoning? Tell ya what MG, if I was gonna complain or be concerned about the heat, I wouldn't consider going into the kitchen! I don't post here primarily to win friendship. (That stated, I also do not post primarily to loose any either.) I post factual info, corrections, or opinions (noted) based on how I interpret.. whatever. I am OBVIOUSLY, outspoken. Others are free (relatively speaking) to characterize me however they wish. I do NOT post to generate disrespect, irregardless how others may interpret my posts.

You MG, have met this person, at the center of this discussion, so maybe you feel comfortable, 'reading between the lines', when he posts. I have not, so I take what is posted AT FACE VALUE. We both know what I mean by that phrase.

In the past I've posted wording that has been misinterpreted, to the negative obviously, so I would occasionally, get 'pounded'. My reply... was to clarify my meaning or true intent of my wording. Did I retaliate? What the hell for? MG, ever hear of the phrase "it's not how you send the message, it is how it is received." LOL, maybe I'm quoting myself. ANYWAY.... When I send (or post) anything, it is MY responsibliity that I am understood. When someone 'jumps' on me for a particular post, it is NOT their fault for misinterpreting my wording. My approach is to view it as MY fault for not making myself better understood. I do not have an ego to feed, got rid of that negative emotion many years ago. You understand what I am tapping on the keyboard here? Anyway, that is MY philosophy. If I am gonna be viewed as displaying a lack of respect for subscribing to that philosophy, and subsequently be given/shown less respect, so be it. That is the prerogative of whomever. "So do we judge the author of the response or do we judge the response?" You need to anwer your own question. You're the one that needs to feel comfortable with it. If it is any consolation, I hold no disrespect or ill feeling/emotion toward those that do not see 'eye to eye' with I have previously typed here. I view their conclusion is based on their perspective. And if that conclusion is a negative one, I consider that unfortunate.

In closing, your 'man' has had ample time to clarify his post if he chose to do so. MG, you may believe you really KNOW him, so you (or others) may reply, "why would he now, after you have disrespected him as you have in your posts?"..... Well, I've a very good reply to that as well. Let's just say I am (and have been) a student of human psychology. It is one of my 'minors' here on this planet, and I take very good notes.

 

You should have "minored" in Grammar. Not picking on you, but you use TOO DAMN MANY commas!

Kinda hard to read sometimes...all the breaking for commas. You know?!